Serious Question on Eligibility As SN TDs, we need absolute confirmation on the issues of eligibility for players who accept cash as their winnings in a SN-sanctioned tournament. 1) If a player has accepted cash money for winnings in a SN tournament, they are locked in that division for no less than six months. Correct? 2) If an amateur player 'cashes' in an Open division, they may accept prizes in lieu of cash money to retain their amateur eligibility. Correct? Now to the confusing part... What is the BoD's position on players who have accepted cash money, yet play down in an amateur division BEFORE the six months is over, unbeknownst to the TD of the tournament the player played down in. Should that player's eligibility time frame have another six months added? Should that player be unable to play any amateur tournemant ever? Should a player who accepts cash money in the SN Pro Championships never be allowed to play down to amateur again? I need to know answers to these questions sooner than later. Please don't wait until the next meeting. http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,116999#msg-116999 Thu, 23 May 2013 05:26:28 -0500 Phorum 5.2.15a http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128716#msg-128716 Re: Serious Question on Eligibility http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128716#msg-128716
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Gilligan
They play up because they think they have a chance at the bigger cash at smaller events... they won't play down just for the championships.

Bingo!!!! and to have not contributed to the purse in the masters field all year!!!]]> Tax Man SN Board of Directors Mon, 08 Sep 2008 08:26:17 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128708#msg-128708 Re: Serious Question on Eligibility http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128708#msg-128708 Gilligan SN Board of Directors Sun, 07 Sep 2008 23:48:54 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128699#msg-128699 Re: Serious Question on Eligibility http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128699#msg-128699 dangerousdon SN Board of Directors Sun, 07 Sep 2008 20:41:13 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128697#msg-128697 Re: Serious Question on Eligibility http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128697#msg-128697
sure, they may be playing "down" at the championships, but doesn't that beat playing "down" at the other 10 or so tournaments they might have played open at?

others may view it differently, but it just looks to me like they are doing everybody a favor for playing "up" all year, then playing where they belong come championship time]]> bazkitcase5 SN Board of Directors Sun, 07 Sep 2008 20:11:57 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128678#msg-128678 Re: Serious Question on Eligibility http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128678#msg-128678 Tax Man SN Board of Directors Sun, 07 Sep 2008 06:50:12 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128647#msg-128647 Re: Serious Question on Eligibility http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128647#msg-128647 I know sometimes there are not enough players to create an age protected division and in most cases the player moves "up". At the last Mississippi States I wanted to play GrandMaster (my regular division for years) there were none; there were also no Masters, so I ended up playing Open. I ended up in last place in the Open Division (gee I thought I would do better).

So my money went to the open division and my points were listed in the open division.

There have also been times when a Masters Division is fielded but not a Grandmaster and then I play "up" in Masters.

The rest of the year I play where I belong and have played for a very long time: the GrandMaster Division.

When you look at my player stats I have very few points (2 for showing up) in Open, I have a few more in Masters because I may not have come in last, and I have many points in GrandMasters.

I only played in the other divisions because GrandMasters and/or Masters did not have enough players to field a division, so in a sense, if I wanted to play, I had to play "up".

The Open division is offered at every tournament. There are numerous players who play all year in the Open division (because they can compete, no matter what their age); then play "down" in one of the age protected divisions at the SNPC. Or they play "down" a division at a local tournament based on who shows up and how big the pot is.

This should not be allowed.

An easy fix would be to look at the accumulated points in each division at the end of the year and not allow a player to play "down". Of course if they want to challenge themselves and play "up" ( a GrandMaster to Master/Open, or a Master to Open) I say "go for it Kemo Sabe".

So no matter how many divisions you played in for whatever reason, you should play in the division you had the most points in and not be allowed to play "down".

Now for the Ams: I definitely agree with Tax Man about his statement concering a player who cashed in the SNPC, then did not cash or did not accept cash for the required six months and then was allowed to play in the SNAC. This is ridiculus, espcially if the player is not of age to play in an age protected divsion, where there may be an expectation of decline due to advanced age.

No one should ever be allowd to play "down". If you cash in Pro, then guess what Einstien, you are a Pro.

I believe the six month rule is more effective for those who think they are Pro, move "up" too soon and quickly realize they are only a legend in their own mind. Then they move back "down" to Ams and try again at a later date. It is not there for people to take advantage of.

The SN BOD needs to seriously address this matter.]]> dangerousdon SN Board of Directors Fri, 05 Sep 2008 22:24:53 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128589#msg-128589 Re: Serious Question on Eligibility http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128589#msg-128589 Tax Man SN Board of Directors Thu, 04 Sep 2008 14:17:38 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128582#msg-128582 Re: Serious Question on Eligibility http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128582#msg-128582
Josh]]> Hilltopper SN Board of Directors Thu, 04 Sep 2008 12:46:19 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128300#msg-128300 Re: Serious Question on Eligibility http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128300#msg-128300
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TheZinger
but i will not argue with you about needing points to play in the division you want to play in.

That is something that may need a bit of tweaking.

I will start with if an am plays the SNPC and cashes they must stay there for a year and not have the priviledge that Mr Vo is getting.{sorry CV}


An am playing in the snpc must make the choice wether to take the cash and sit out an entire year or take prizes.

A Master or GM must have a point in that divison as well. Not playing open and then asking for some pizza when you did not chip in.]]> Tax Man SN Board of Directors Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:57:28 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128298#msg-128298 Re: Serious Question on Eligibility http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128298#msg-128298 TheZinger SN Board of Directors Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:02:27 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128296#msg-128296 Re: Serious Question on Eligibility http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128296#msg-128296
I suppose I was thinking of the masters players that have not put in but are now signed up for masters. If it is known ahead of time it is not that hard but if they are waiting till friday then they should have to pay and extra 20;o]~]]> Tax Man SN Board of Directors Tue, 26 Aug 2008 18:46:00 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128295#msg-128295 Re: Serious Question on Eligibility http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128295#msg-128295
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Gary Wagoner
At our big tournaments in Memphis we have 12 divisions. If you are computer literate and can develop your own spreadsheet programs it would just be an aggravation trying to keep the SNDG divisional funds allocated correctly. If not, then it would truly be a nightmare, prone to mistakes and open the floodgates of forum criticism from those who thought they were slighted.

Keep it simple.

Gary Wagoner

I agree. There should be only 4 SNAC divisions, 5 SNPC, and 8 SNDC divisions. Maybe one more SNAC and SNDC for the juniors. We had 3 SNAC divisions with 3 players or less.

Josh]]> Hilltopper SN Board of Directors Tue, 26 Aug 2008 18:45:13 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128294#msg-128294 Re: Serious Question on Eligibility http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128294#msg-128294
Josh]]> Hilltopper SN Board of Directors Tue, 26 Aug 2008 18:40:00 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128293#msg-128293 Re: Serious Question on Eligibility http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128293#msg-128293 TheZinger SN Board of Directors Tue, 26 Aug 2008 18:21:36 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128291#msg-128291 Re: Serious Question on Eligibility http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128291#msg-128291
Example Will Timmons signs up for masters in the SNPC he has played 19 masters events and 13 open events so he should have 64 added to the masters purse.

now there are some masters players that have played 4 divisons. But if they sign up for masters in the SNPC then add up there total events and apply it where they play.

I am sure there is some one out there that could make a program for this or at the end of the season there is time to figure this out before the snac and snpc.
Or it can stay the same way and the BOD will allow players to play in divisons in which they have not contributed and allow there money to end up elsewhere.]]> Tax Man SN Board of Directors Tue, 26 Aug 2008 17:48:59 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128287#msg-128287 Re: Serious Question on Eligibility http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128287#msg-128287
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Hilltopper
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Tax Man
um, I do not think there was a vote. May I ask why you would not be in favor of adding the money a player has put in during the year to the correct divison? Or enforce they play where they have points.

Thanks for your response.

Sure.

1. I don't care what division a player plays in as long as they meet the qualifications for that division. I don't care if you have only pro points and want to play ADV, as long as you haven't cashed in 6 months. I don't care if you have am points and want to play in the SNPC, as long as the pros are given enough time to sign up before you get a chance. If there are open slots at the SNPC, why not? It raises the payout.

2. Having the money follow the player would be a logistical nightmare for an already overburdoned SN Treasurer (who works for free) and/or the championship TD (who can skim $500 off the top if he is so inclined).

Josh

The Am and Pro money should be given lump sum to their respective championship tournaments and allocated to the purses either per head or pro rata based on the respective entry fee. The more burden you put on the SNDG Treasurer and potential Championship TD's the less likely someone is going to step up to an unpaid second job.

At our big tournaments in Memphis we have 12 divisions. If you are computer literate and can develop your own spreadsheet programs it would just be an aggravation trying to keep the SNDG divisional funds allocated correctly. If not, then it would truly be a nightmare, prone to mistakes and open the floodgates of forum criticism from those who thought they were slighted.

Keep it simple.

Gary Wagoner]]> Gary Wagoner SN Board of Directors Tue, 26 Aug 2008 17:12:34 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128276#msg-128276 Re: Serious Question on Eligibility http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128276#msg-128276
Josh]]> Hilltopper SN Board of Directors Tue, 26 Aug 2008 12:34:30 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128262#msg-128262 Re: Serious Question on Eligibility http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128262#msg-128262
JABBA]]> frzbman SN Board of Directors Tue, 26 Aug 2008 08:48:12 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128258#msg-128258 Re: Serious Question on Eligibility http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128258#msg-128258

As for being a nightmare, it has been suggested that JK get paid a little something for his efforts. I still think there is a program out there to assit with this. It took me only about 20 minutes to figure out the masters and where there money should go. Otherwise certain divisons are getting more then they deserve based on what a player has paid into but, not playing in the championship.

Thanks for considering it!!!!]]> Tax Man SN Board of Directors Tue, 26 Aug 2008 08:08:00 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128255#msg-128255 Re: Serious Question on Eligibility http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128255#msg-128255
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Tax Man
um, I do not think there was a vote. May I ask why you would not be in favor of adding the money a player has put in during the year to the correct divison? Or enforce they play where they have points.

Thanks for your response.

Sure.

1. I don't care what division a player plays in as long as they meet the qualifications for that division. I don't care if you have only pro points and want to play ADV, as long as you haven't cashed in 6 months. I don't care if you have am points and want to play in the SNPC, as long as the pros are given enough time to sign up before you get a chance. If there are open slots at the SNPC, why not? It raises the payout.

2. Having the money follow the player would be a logistical nightmare for an already overburdoned SN Treasurer (who works for free) and/or the championship TD (who can skim $500 off the top if he is so inclined).

Josh]]> Hilltopper SN Board of Directors Tue, 26 Aug 2008 07:52:30 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128252#msg-128252 Re: Serious Question on Eligibility http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128252#msg-128252
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Hilltopper
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Gilligan
I don't see what is wrong with requiring am players to have PRO points to play the snPc?

I think most pros would disagree with you. Those am players are more popularly known as "donaters."

Josh


or some like Mr.Vo win cash last year the play the SNAC and win and now he is back at the SNPC. No donating there!]]> Tax Man SN Board of Directors Tue, 26 Aug 2008 02:10:00 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128250#msg-128250 Re: Serious Question on Eligibility http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128250#msg-128250
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Hilltopper
I think most pros would disagree with you. Those am players are more popularly known as "donaters."

Josh

I can understand by a pro's perspective but from an objective perspective it allows an Am to play down all year and then for the SNPC step up and compete... I think that if they feel they have a chance at SNPC then they are way past due to step up and play for pro's in regular tournaments. That is only common sense!]]> Gilligan SN Board of Directors Tue, 26 Aug 2008 00:03:03 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128237#msg-128237 Re: Serious Question on Eligibility http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128237#msg-128237
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Hilltopper
Bob,
JK will not be on the BOD after Sunday. My vote will remain the same as JK's, but I will bring it up when the new BOD meets for the first time.

Josh

um, I do not think there was a vote. May I ask why you would not be in favor of adding the money a player has put in during the year to the correct divison? Or enforce they play where they have points.

Thanks for your response.]]> Tax Man SN Board of Directors Mon, 25 Aug 2008 20:39:41 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128236#msg-128236 Re: Serious Question on Eligibility http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128236#msg-128236
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Gilligan
I don't see what is wrong with requiring am players to have PRO points to play the snPc?

I think most pros would disagree with you. Those am players are more popularly known as "donaters."

Josh]]> Hilltopper SN Board of Directors Mon, 25 Aug 2008 19:58:58 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128235#msg-128235 Re: Serious Question on Eligibility http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128235#msg-128235 JK will not be on the BOD after Sunday. My vote will remain the same as JK's, but I will bring it up when the new BOD meets for the first time.

Josh]]> Hilltopper SN Board of Directors Mon, 25 Aug 2008 19:56:05 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128232#msg-128232 Re: Serious Question on Eligibility http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128232#msg-128232
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Gilligan
Why was it changed?

to allow more players into the event since it was/has not ever been full that I know of. it seems like that most of the ams/pros that are attending this year have a point in both open and advanced but, that is not where I have the problem as much as I do with the masters players that have not got a masters point and have played in several events and now want to play masters.

John, I now how you feel but could this be tabeled for a BOD/new meeting? I know it will not be voted/changed before the snpc but, it is one worth discussing since it is a lot of money in various divisons in which a player is not playing.]]> Tax Man SN Board of Directors Mon, 25 Aug 2008 18:51:10 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128231#msg-128231 Re: Serious Question on Eligibility http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128231#msg-128231 Gilligan SN Board of Directors Mon, 25 Aug 2008 18:40:10 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128218#msg-128218 Re: Serious Question on Eligibility http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128218#msg-128218
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John K
3 people still don't constitute a majority :) But if other people feel that same way chime in...

Am needing pro points, that was the way it USE to be and was changed 3 years ago to allow anyone with sn poinst to play in the SNPC, but that doesn't work the other way Bob...

It does if you are on the BOD!!!]]> Tax Man SN Board of Directors Mon, 25 Aug 2008 16:06:33 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128217#msg-128217 Re: Serious Question on Eligibility http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128217#msg-128217
Am needing pro points, that was the way it USE to be and was changed 3 years ago to allow anyone with sn poinst to play in the SNPC, but that doesn't work the other way Bob...]]> John K SN Board of Directors Mon, 25 Aug 2008 16:03:19 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128214#msg-128214 Re: Serious Question on Eligibility http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,116999,128214#msg-128214
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John K
Nice blanket statement... I've already stated that I don't think anything is broken. I disagree with you in regards to having the money follow the individual instead of the division. That is just creating work in my opinion and would just cause confusion

John k

well the other posters think it is. I know you directed the answer at me but I am not the only one who feels this way. as for the confusion, why if the player does not have a point in a divison they cannot play there. It was fairly simple at the SNAC and should be at the SNPC. If they have not put in then they should not be able to take from it. Once again I say have an open vote and see if people think it is broke. I see a few others that agree.

as for the am players, they also should need a point{in the open divison} and most of the ones who are planning on coming do so.

it is at least something the BOD should consider. they should also consider allowing players with pro points that have not cashed to be allowed to play in the snac. one for all and all for one;o]~]]> Tax Man SN Board of Directors Mon, 25 Aug 2008 15:27:55 -0500