Illegal substance during competition I would like to see the board step up and put some teeth into a policy that will provide bans of players disqualified from play during any SN tournament (as per section C of PDGA Rule 804.05). Here is the way PDGA rule 804.05 reads: A. A player shall be disqualified by the director for meeting any of the necessary conditions of disqualification as set forth in the rules, or for any of the following: (1) Unsportsmanlike conduct, such as; loud cursing, throwing things in anger (other than discs in play), or overt rudeness to anyone present (2) Willful and overt destruction or abuse of plant life, course hardware, or any other property considered part of the disc golf course or the park. (3) Cheating: a willful attempt to circumvent the rules of play. (4) Activities which are in violation of the law or park regulation or disc golf course rule, including the illegal consumption of drugs or alcohol. Directors are granted the discretion to disqualify a player based on the severity of the offending conduct. An official warning of disqualification may be issued by a director where appropriate. B. Disqualified players shall forfeit any prize money and shall not receive a refund of entry fees. C. A player in violation of any section under 804.05 A is also subject to suspension from the PDGA Tour. Suspension from the PDGA Tour may only be assigned by the PDGA Commissioner. A player may appeal his or her suspension to the PDGA Board of Directors. The determination to suspend, and the length of the suspension, shall be based on the severity of the action and the extent to which the player may have committed repeated violations. ------ Basically the way I read the rule, a TD has only two options when confronted with evidence that a player has violated any of four listed offenses ... he or she can disqualify the player(s) or they can issue a warning of disqualification. I propose the board treat these two options the same way a yellow and red card are treated in soccer. Any player who is disqualified from a SN event (red card) is banned from SN tournaments for a period of three months. Any player disqualified a second time (regardless of what season it took place in) is banned for the rest of the current season and becomes ineligible to compete in any of the championships. Any player disqualified a third time is banned for life, subject to reinstatement only by appeal to the SN Board after a period of at least one year from the effective date of the lifetime ban. Two warnings of disqualification (yellow card) will be treated as if it was one disqualification (red card). I think it is important somewhere in the language of any SN Rule, to define what is meant by "tournament." There is a perception among players that as long as something doesn't happen during a round, then it isn't part of the tournament. I think careful attention should be paid to what the board defines as "The Tournament." I would suggest that language be adopted to incorporate a working definition something along the lines of; The phrase "during the tournament" will be construed to include ALL tournament-related activities at the tournament site beginning two hours before the start of the first round and ending at the conclusion of the awards ceremony AND all personal activities by registered players at the tournament site beginning with registration and ending at the conclusion of the awards ceremony. ------ Please let me know if I can elaborate on either the specifics of this proposal or the reason I feel it is crucial. Please also let me know if this proposal will be considered by the SN Board and, if so, what the outcome is. Thanks. http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,119164#msg-119164 Wed, 22 May 2013 09:04:18 -0500 Phorum 5.2.15a http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,148434#msg-148434 Re: Illegal substance during competition http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,148434#msg-148434 Dillon_Gourley SN Board of Directors Thu, 17 Sep 2009 16:05:23 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,148353#msg-148353 Re: Illegal substance during competition http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,148353#msg-148353 FISHMAN SN Board of Directors Thu, 17 Sep 2009 00:24:03 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,140291#msg-140291 Re: Illegal substance during competition http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,140291#msg-140291 Gilligan SN Board of Directors Fri, 08 May 2009 15:47:31 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,140289#msg-140289 Re: Illegal substance during competition http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,140289#msg-140289 -------------------------------------------------------
> That would require a TD with balls, and that seems
> hard to find... plus it's a female player... oh
> no, we can't say ANYTHING bad to her, she might
> quit coming and ruining the sport for everyone.
> ;)
>
> That is sad... TD's need to learn to take a more
> hardline stance on issues like this.

You are exactly right!!!!!!!! It's really hard to find a TD that will take a hardline stance. Nobody wants to ruffle anybody's feathers even if it is the right thing to do.]]> Karen J. SN Board of Directors Fri, 08 May 2009 15:39:35 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,140278#msg-140278 Re: Illegal substance during competition http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,140278#msg-140278
That is sad... TD's need to learn to take a more hardline stance on issues like this.]]> Gilligan SN Board of Directors Fri, 08 May 2009 10:54:48 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,140270#msg-140270 Re: Illegal substance during competition http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,140270#msg-140270 Karen J. SN Board of Directors Fri, 08 May 2009 09:10:58 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,139797#msg-139797 Re: Illegal substance during competition http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,139797#msg-139797 Gilligan SN Board of Directors Wed, 29 Apr 2009 15:49:46 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,139780#msg-139780 Re: Illegal substance during competition http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,139780#msg-139780 TheZinger SN Board of Directors Wed, 29 Apr 2009 12:58:23 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,139739#msg-139739 Re: Illegal substance during competition http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,139739#msg-139739 Gilligan SN Board of Directors Tue, 28 Apr 2009 23:38:34 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,139736#msg-139736 Re: Illegal substance during competition http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,139736#msg-139736 TheZinger SN Board of Directors Tue, 28 Apr 2009 23:26:16 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,139692#msg-139692 Re: Illegal substance during competition http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,139692#msg-139692 Gilligan SN Board of Directors Tue, 28 Apr 2009 10:30:24 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,139640#msg-139640 Re: Illegal substance during competition http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,139640#msg-139640 bigal5657 SN Board of Directors Mon, 27 Apr 2009 16:04:59 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,139639#msg-139639 Re: Illegal substance during competition http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,139639#msg-139639
Don't get me wrong Alan, I understand... I was just trying to put it into better perspective.]]> Gilligan SN Board of Directors Mon, 27 Apr 2009 15:49:10 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,139579#msg-139579 Re: Illegal substance during competition http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,139579#msg-139579
1) what sport, am or pro, allows during competition the consumption of alcohol or tobacco products?

Ive only seen one golfer smoke and that was John Daly and we know how cool he is. The illegal things are even more rampant in our sport than either of these other two mention things combined. I was playing an SN event last year. One of the BIG BIG ones with my son Dalton. Someone in my group lit up right in front on he and I. What do you do?

2) Are we trying to make ourselves more professional and be taken seriously by other organizations, including sponsors?

I will probably never become a pro in disc golf. I have been playing for 15 years now and Im not very good, but I have close friends and one family member in particular who are. If we are striving for better attendance and better sponsorship then we have to clean up what we have playing in our tourneys. We do not have the man power or the "want to" to do this though. We will forever be looked at like the no shirt wearing, beer drinking, pot smoking, cursing, redneck hillbillies of the sport. Until we as a group make a better effort to better our perception we will be just as I have said.

3) How do we turn in people playing our sport and keeping it alive?

Now dont get lost on where I am going on this. I have liked I said before, been doing this a long time and now have a son and wife involved. I dont like having to go to tourneys and pleading with the TD, who has enough on his plate day of the event, to not put them with certain people. It is so ridiculous now that I have not played a single round in a tournament in 5 years without someone "smoking". How do you go to a TD and say Id like that person thrown out or can you talk to them about that please. TD goes back and says hey man that guy...dont lit up around him. Oh by the way the TD smokes also.... What are you supposed to do? Get looked at like a nark and not have any kind of conversations or friends in the sport at all.

We need more volunteers at tournaments to be posted every few holes I guess. But who...more pot smokers? It a losing battle. If I have offended any of my friends Im sorry. Disc golf will always be in my life. For those of you who at least ask before hand....Thank you for some courtesy.]]> bigal5657 SN Board of Directors Sun, 26 Apr 2009 18:45:06 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,135531#msg-135531 Re: Illegal substance during competition http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,135531#msg-135531

Actually, that is called libel. The only records that would be traceable are the penalties enforced on the player for those actions. The actions cannot be discussed because that body that keeps the records publicly can get their pants sued off.]]> Rinkelstein SN Board of Directors Tue, 10 Feb 2009 15:54:15 -0600 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,125541#msg-125541 Re: Illegal substance during competition http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,125541#msg-125541
Quote
Byron Wood
A "practical joke" by one of my co-workers, I think. Password protection on my screensaver from now on. Hopefully, it will be deleted.


]]> ww SN Board of Directors Tue, 08 Jul 2008 12:40:03 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,125540#msg-125540 Re: Illegal substance during competition http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,125540#msg-125540 Byron Wood SN Board of Directors Tue, 08 Jul 2008 11:46:53 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,125536#msg-125536 Re: Illegal substance during competition http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,125536#msg-125536 Tax Man SN Board of Directors Tue, 08 Jul 2008 10:02:19 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,122252#msg-122252 Re: Illegal substance during competition http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,122252#msg-122252 BUD SN Board of Directors Tue, 29 Apr 2008 12:56:13 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,120989#msg-120989 Re: Illegal substance during competition http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,120989#msg-120989 redhollywood SN Board of Directors Fri, 04 Apr 2008 15:47:08 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,120958#msg-120958 Re: Illegal substance during competition http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,120958#msg-120958 head SN Board of Directors Fri, 04 Apr 2008 09:18:54 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,120931#msg-120931 Re: Illegal substance during competition http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,120931#msg-120931
The second half of the issue is "cleaning" up the tournaments making them more professional. I myself enjoy many a good cold beer before, between and after tournament and casual rounds. However, for the sake of the growth sport and tournament professionalism I can withold until after a tournament. I heartily agree with griff that a well rounded rule with no loop holes would be best. He said she said generaly leaves people feeling bitter and causes dividing lines between groups. Although I believe a rule is needed, hastily throwing something out there could cause even more problems instead of being a solution as griff was saying. A simple suggestion, for championships or bigger tournaments, would be to have tournament officials spread out every three to five holes. These officials would be in charge of those holes between them. Certain smells generaly carry, and it would be nice to have those guys around for other official calls that may be raised during a round of championship play. I do understand that this would not work for smaller tournaments with less help. I do not have any good suggestions for wording of the rule, I leave that to those with the power of lawspeak. I do suggest that it is easily interpreted with clear cut lines for the TDs to act unanimously across the board. Also, if such a rule was in place it must be equally enforced by all present, not hit or miss at tournaments, or it is doomed for failure from the jump.

Again, I say that growth of the sport should be and is the main goal of most golfers. This should be first and formost in our minds as we make changes for the future.]]> tgod SN Board of Directors Thu, 03 Apr 2008 21:42:36 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,120905#msg-120905 Re: Illegal substance during competition http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,120905#msg-120905 Tax Man SN Board of Directors Thu, 03 Apr 2008 10:26:00 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,120901#msg-120901 Re: Illegal substance during competition http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,120901#msg-120901
OK, Griff, basically what you are saying is that if I alone in a group do not "put my feet on the table," I am going to have to tolerate whatever transgressions of Rule 804.05 others in my group perpetrate simply because I have no second.

I think it is a huge leap to just assume "If it's an issue a second will never be a problem.... " How does that square with my experience at a tournament where for two rounds everyone else in my group had their boots on the table all round long.

What happens under your raised bar if two people report it and three people refute it? How do you feel about Josh's observation that any certified PDGA official's word should be sufficient unto itself?

I can think of several crimes where, if we extended your requirements for proof, the victims might as well just seek medical treatment and suck it up because ultimately it is just going to be he said/she said.]]> chris lasonde SN Board of Directors Thu, 03 Apr 2008 10:05:50 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,120897#msg-120897 Re: Illegal substance during competition http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,120897#msg-120897 Griff (CounselorGriff) SN Board of Directors Thu, 03 Apr 2008 09:44:07 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,120896#msg-120896 Re: Illegal substance during competition http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,120896#msg-120896
Quote
Russ3523
Good point, Matt, but in some cases, if too many feet are on the table during casual rounds and picnicers, walkers, casual park workers see it, a course could be pulled. Same goes with loud cursing around other park users. You never know what might make it back to the park manager or park and rec director. rWc3523


I won't argue that point, except to say the SN and or the PDGA has rules governing Tournament play not casual rounds. We will have more than enough on our hands just dealing with what goes on during tourneys. Good luck to you if you want to try and tell people how to live their lives outside of that.

Individual clubs may step up and make rules on the subject. I know our club the Emerald Coast Disc Golf Club instituted a rule last fall that during official club sponsored rounds there will be no "feet on table." People have been respecting the rule. I have not heard a complaint since.

I reiterate, it's all about RESPECT.]]> Matt D SN Board of Directors Thu, 03 Apr 2008 09:42:39 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,120891#msg-120891 Re: Illegal substance during competition http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,120891#msg-120891
NO ONE is suggesting an individual should be ignored due to the overwhelming presence of people that see things differently...

BUT, holding one man's word over another's is BS Any rule that places this onerous crap on the back of the TD is BS...

PDGA's enforcement of their precious rule is BS...

If it's an issue a second will never be a problem....

But if a TD is going to take one person's ranting over another's then you HAVE problems...

Why would it be bad tio suggest a rule that requires support to the allegations??? Explain that point to me!!!

If anything, it makes the transgression more relevant and the severity of the sentence will then not be problematic...

Be clear....I have repeatedly shown support for the existence of the RULE--my problem is the discussion threads of how it should be enforced....and whose word is taken as "gospel" and whose is not....

Support to the accuser's statement is nothing but a common sense requirement....]]> Griff (CounselorGriff) SN Board of Directors Thu, 03 Apr 2008 09:23:53 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,120889#msg-120889 Re: Illegal substance during competition http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,120889#msg-120889
trust me here folks, just because it's a PDGA rule-makes it NO BETTER than any other rule...


THE PDGA can sit here all day and say their series has no problem and the SN is full of pot-heads (Great unity attempt--there's another digression)...

WE ALL KNOW HOW FULL OF SHULE that is....what a joke...

I really think this "attack" from PDGA'ers that have their own skeleton's in their closet (not directed at Chris whom I mutually respect) needs to stop...

The reasons PDGA got the black eye over history for their "enforcement" in certain areas of the country is because the enforcement was not made reasonable by supporting evidence....

ASK THE FOLKS IN NASVILLE as a clear example....

Now, why should the SN want to walk down that path??? We can do better by creating a better rule and reasonable enforcement thereof....]]> Griff (CounselorGriff) SN Board of Directors Thu, 03 Apr 2008 09:22:30 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,120888#msg-120888 Re: Illegal substance during competition http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,120888#msg-120888 mike sidebottom SN Board of Directors Thu, 03 Apr 2008 09:20:26 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,120884#msg-120884 Re: Illegal substance during competition http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,119164,120884#msg-120884 Russ3523 SN Board of Directors Thu, 03 Apr 2008 09:10:48 -0500