Southern National Doubles Championship Guidelines The guidelines presented below are the minimum standards set forth by the Southern National Board. The host city of the SNDC is committed to running a championship level tournament for the players. The appropriate level of forethought and planning is required to make this representative of the culmination of a SN season. 1. A minimum of 2, 18 hole courses in excellent shape, appropriate for the level of competition. 2. All SN fees are turned over to the host city along with a breakdown regarding the amount that was collected for each division (in doubles tournaments). This information is provided by the SN Treasurer to the host city, SN Board and SN players vis the SN forum. All SN fees may be returned to the respective division or broken down by the number of participants. (Example $1000 in SN fees and 100 players would equate to $10 per player. Each divison would get an equitable amount of the SN fees with the larger divisions getting the largest share.) 3. Each Division should payout a minimum of 110% of SN fees and Entry fees collected, i.e. if $1000 in SN fees and Entry fees were collected for the Advanced division then $1100 should be paid out in fair retail value. (See 11 for definition of FRV) 4. Divisions offered: the minimum divisions offered will be Pro Men, Pro Women, Pro Master, Pro Grandmaster, Advanced Men, Am Men, Adv Masters, Am Masters, and Am Women. Other divisions such as Juniors can be offered if there are enough players to constitute a division as determined by the host. 5. What constitutes Payout? ...a. Payout includes the prizes given out to the top 35% (minimum) in the pro/advanced am divisions (Pro Men, Pro Women, Pro Masters, Pro Grandmasters, Adv Men, Adv Masters) ...b. Payout includes prizes given out to the top 45% (minimum) in the am divisions (Am Men, Am Masters, Am Women) ...c. Payout includes trophies in ACTUAL cost for each division. ...d. Payout includes the players package that is given out to all registered players in their respective division. ...e. Payout includes any prizes for contests that are broken down by division, such as putting, driving contests. ...f. Payout includes any prizes for CTPs that are broken down by division. 6. A players package may be provided at the discrection of the Host. Contents of the players package will be determined by the host. The mark up to retail value for items such as shirts and discs will be approved by the SN Board. Approval for other items in the players package in regards to what can be considered payout will be by the SN Board. 7. The tournament will be a minimum 3 rounds. There can be a cut after the 3rd round. Format to be determined by host in regards to types of rounds (i.e. straight best shot, best score, alternate shot, worst shot) 8. Each division will have trophies/plaques for 1st, 2nd and 3rd. 9. Sponsorship money: All sponsorship money raised by the host club can be designated as the sponsor/host chooses. 10. The host city will provide to the SN Board a complete accounting of the money taken in (i.e. sponsorship money, SN fees, entry fees) and money paid out giving actual cost of items with photocopied reciepts. Accountability is important. (The SN Board will comminicate wiht the host to determine the best means of doing this, while we want to keep the process as simple as possible accountability is important.) 11. Fair Retail Value: This is the value of the merchandise at the average cost to a player buying from a vendor. The pricing of each type of disc used for payout(i.e. DX, Pro Line, CE) must be approved by the SN Board to ensure pricing is fair. 12. A minimum of 2 SN Board members will be present at the SNAC to ensure the quality of the event is maintained. 13. A minimum of two extra curricular events will be offered. Suggestions include: ...a. putting contest ...b. driving contest ...c. skils contest ...d. rings of fire ...e. mini course 16. The host city can profit from the tournament. A MAXIMUM of $500 can be made by the host city if ALL the SNAC guidelines outlined above (i.e. 110% payout) have been met. 17. Sponsorship exemptions: Sponsorship exemptions will be given to those individuals that dont have SN points. The limit of exemption is $200 for a player at the SNDC. Sponsorship can come from individuals or corporate. It is the discretion of the host city to deny sponsorship exemption if they deem the player applying for the exemption to be of pro caliber based on other tournament series such as the PDGA. Sponsorship excemptions were raised to $400 cash only PER excemption. A player may only recieve one excemption for any one championship in a 2 year period. Edited 09/15/10 18. Eligibility: All players that have competed in an SN tournament that was an appropriate SNC qualifier and obtained the mimimum 2 points required (players that played in a nonpoints division such as Novice are eligible to register the last two weeks prior to the championship if the tournament isnt full at that point.) http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,79136#msg-79136 Sun, 19 May 2013 21:47:45 -0500 Phorum 5.2.15a http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,235728#msg-235728 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,235728#msg-235728 wayneacree SN Board of Directors Mon, 28 Jan 2013 19:52:50 -0600 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,235724#msg-235724 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,235724#msg-235724 The cyclamates in that bottle of Fresca and
the crappy ankle support in those Ridelle cleats
will decrease the career of any athlete faster than a Salem Menthol.]]> halffastpull SN Board of Directors Mon, 28 Jan 2013 18:22:17 -0600 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,235697#msg-235697 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,235697#msg-235697 hudd SN Board of Directors Mon, 28 Jan 2013 07:01:39 -0600 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,235687#msg-235687 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,235687#msg-235687




My, how times change.]]> jacques SN Board of Directors Sun, 27 Jan 2013 21:32:36 -0600 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,235625#msg-235625 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,235625#msg-235625
I wanted to make sure everyone (including myself) was clear on what the rules were.]]> jacques SN Board of Directors Fri, 25 Jan 2013 10:42:43 -0600 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,235623#msg-235623 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,235623#msg-235623 -------------------------------------------------------
> If the park allows alcohol then I say yea. But you
> have then created yourself another responsibility
> as TD. Making sure that it doesn't get out of
> hand. Another aspect to look at is... If Joe
> player is at that event and gets hammered and
> leaves and has an accident, you could reap the
> repercusions from that...seen it happen
> before.Just a couple things to think about. Plus
> its a championship...You ever see Tiger Woods
> killing a 40 on Amen Corner at Augusta?

Old English 800!!!!!]]> Keith Bodin SN Board of Directors Fri, 25 Jan 2013 09:54:56 -0600 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,235616#msg-235616 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,235616#msg-235616 hudd SN Board of Directors Fri, 25 Jan 2013 06:18:34 -0600 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,235608#msg-235608 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,235608#msg-235608
Looks like 4.2.8 in the new, new, new handbook

4.2.8 Excessive use of alcohol at the tournament. When alcohol is allowed by the course or park management and at the discretion of the TD, it is up to the player to do so responsibly.

Dat's why I axed dat question.

I want to hear what the players and BOD had to say about it.

And Keith, I thought you and Dave were gonna partner and take down Adv Masters. LOL!!!!]]> jacques SN Board of Directors Thu, 24 Jan 2013 21:58:04 -0600 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,235604#msg-235604 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,235604#msg-235604 Bluff Magee SN Board of Directors Thu, 24 Jan 2013 21:08:46 -0600 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,235597#msg-235597 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,235597#msg-235597 Keith Bodin SN Board of Directors Thu, 24 Jan 2013 15:49:35 -0600 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,235596#msg-235596 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,235596#msg-235596
Can I allow players to drink beer in moderation at the SNDC?]]> jacques SN Board of Directors Thu, 24 Jan 2013 15:44:24 -0600 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,206218#msg-206218 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,206218#msg-206218
May I request a confirmation of receipt for the Double bid proposal pdf emailed earlier today?]]> Grayson SN Board of Directors Sat, 27 Aug 2011 22:19:48 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,201432#msg-201432 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,201432#msg-201432 jtolbert SN Board of Directors Sat, 09 Jul 2011 17:26:24 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,200798#msg-200798 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,200798#msg-200798
[www.sndg.org]

However the TD posted today that you have to have points. Whether Novice get points is a whole other debate because if you look up the Rec division on this site you will see points for years even though BOD members have said that is error also.

[www.sndg.org]

However that TD post does not say the points have to be in a particular season.

Bottom line - I think is that it will not be full 2 weeks out and Novice with a full round in the 10-11 season we be allowed in. Obviously I am no authority so ask the TDs.]]> Discjazz SN Board of Directors Tue, 05 Jul 2011 17:44:12 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,200791#msg-200791 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,200791#msg-200791 peckston SN Board of Directors Tue, 05 Jul 2011 17:08:32 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,200522#msg-200522 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,200522#msg-200522 Discjazz SN Board of Directors Fri, 01 Jul 2011 21:19:10 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,200521#msg-200521 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,200521#msg-200521 hobbit489 SN Board of Directors Fri, 01 Jul 2011 20:24:16 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,200514#msg-200514 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,200514#msg-200514 Discjazz SN Board of Directors Fri, 01 Jul 2011 18:04:30 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,199946#msg-199946 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,199946#msg-199946 Gilligan SN Board of Directors Mon, 27 Jun 2011 14:46:43 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,199945#msg-199945 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,199945#msg-199945 jtolbert SN Board of Directors Mon, 27 Jun 2011 14:44:02 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,199943#msg-199943 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,199943#msg-199943
That is exactly why I think getting outside help would be a good idea. Reading without pre-conception is a developed skill. Not everyone needs that skill in every day life but a rule writer should have it.]]> Discjazz SN Board of Directors Mon, 27 Jun 2011 14:31:58 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,199941#msg-199941 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,199941#msg-199941
However, as you've brought attention to, this presents a problem. It's easy to see the intent of a rule if you already know what it is supposed to be. Someone reading the rule for the first time without an explanation or preface from someone who already understands it could interpret it to mean something completely different due to ambiguous wording.

It'll always be a work-in-progress. I really appreciate your efforts in helping us with constructive criticism vs. the usual insults.]]> jtolbert SN Board of Directors Mon, 27 Jun 2011 14:18:18 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,199940#msg-199940 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,199940#msg-199940
I just don't think anybody outside the BOD should be willing to put in their time on rules unless the written words approved will control, they will be published fairly, one way or another, and the BOD actually decides they want help fixing them. Otherwise I will just shut up and throw.]]> Discjazz SN Board of Directors Mon, 27 Jun 2011 14:10:48 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,199932#msg-199932 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,199932#msg-199932 jtolbert SN Board of Directors Mon, 27 Jun 2011 13:34:29 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,199927#msg-199927 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,199927#msg-199927
I think that is part of the reason the wording gets lost and we assume the "meaning" is understood.]]> Gilligan SN Board of Directors Mon, 27 Jun 2011 13:05:52 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,199915#msg-199915 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,199915#msg-199915
I have laid out the first 3 steps. If the BOD follows them I'll be glad to lay out the rest. Then we will have our answer. Either we are satisfied with a Forums link, have to have another site or Brian will make the home page link. At this time we don't know and will not until we actually give him a good reason to make a new Handbook link. We have not done that.

It's not a matter of the revised Handbook being perfect. We may always have rules that as applied to unanticipated circumstances are subject to more than one interpretation. What we can do is make sure at least one of the possible interpretations is the rule we intended under expected circumstances and makes some sense. The revised Handbook like the home page link Handbook falls far short of that.]]> Discjazz SN Board of Directors Mon, 27 Jun 2011 11:11:55 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,199885#msg-199885 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,199885#msg-199885 We have 2 different evils when it comes to the handbook right now:
1. The current link is outdated and is missing a ton of amendments that previous BoDs have voted on. If we only link the OLD handbook, it would require players to go through the old threads in the BoD section of the forum to find out rule amendments.
2. The revised handbook isn't perfect. Even though it includes all of the amendments that previous BoDs implemented, the wording isn't crystal clear.

Even if we do adopt the new handbook and have it revised to 100% perfection, would it even be posted on the website?]]> jtolbert SN Board of Directors Mon, 27 Jun 2011 08:00:41 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,199785#msg-199785 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,199785#msg-199785
Obviously we need something written so people can reference it. Now, since we don't have paid employees and holy cow if we actually paid someone their worth to do a job that is needed in the SN. It is hard to write down the EXACT wording that is needed to make it rock solid. Hell, the group that does have over paid employees keep revising because it's almost impossible to make it that rock solid.

The best we can do is write down with best intentions what we want it to say and count on folks like you to help us along the way by showing us the err in our way err... wording. ;)]]> Gilligan SN Board of Directors Sat, 25 Jun 2011 12:20:01 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,199689#msg-199689 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,199689#msg-199689 Discjazz SN Board of Directors Thu, 23 Jun 2011 15:18:05 -0500 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,199675#msg-199675 http://www.sndg.org/forum/read.php?4,79136,199675#msg-199675 I will go ahead and offer some general suggestions:

Step 1: I think Gilligan has made a point that should not be dismissed summarily. Do we really want to follow written rules? If we are going to give priority to widespread beliefs of intentions stop with the writing now. Don't write rules unless we intend to live by the words we use. It is a waste of time. OTOH, if we are going to make a commitment to following the words of written rules, then move to Step 2.

Step 2: Do we have the capacity? Are we able to fairly publish written rules? We have to find a way to fairly publish or we should not bother. I do applaud Brian for not putting a link to the revised Handbook on this site as requested because the BOD has not officially adopted it. I also applaud the BOD for not adopting it yet because it is not ready and would just add to the confusion. I think the answer is yes, and if you agree move to step 3.

Step 3: Ask one of the guys mentioned to write up a review of what rules in the Handbook / Guidelines need fixing just so they make sense - no rule making decisions involved, just language clarification.]]> Discjazz SN Board of Directors Thu, 23 Jun 2011 13:19:51 -0500