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Red River Rendezvous - Fort Buhlow DGC - 10 Nov 2012

Posted by Warlord 
Re: Red River Rendezvous - Fort Buhlow DGC - 10 Nov 2012
October 25, 2012 08:53AM
Online Registration Open

Current Registration List

Online registration will end on Friday, 2 November to ensure that the check arrives in time for the tournament.

David and I will be at the course this Saturday, and can take early registrations at that time. I will keep the current registration updated on a daily basis.
Re: Red River Rendezvous - Fort Buhlow DGC - 10 Nov 2012
October 27, 2012 05:24PM
Walked the course today with David, Randy Hobin and Jazzcaster. Did some light course maintenance consisting of trimming of branches and limbs...more will be done later. Also placed Pro and Novice/Junior tee positions.

Before I go into descriptions of tee positions, I want to cover a subject that probably needs to be discussed:

There seems to be a little confusion about what is considered to be a "Novice." The dictionary definition is "A person new to a field or activity; a beginner." We planned the blue tees to match that definition. The tee position on the blues is generally short....and easy by all standards. We believe that it complies with the PDGA course design standards for that skill level.

A couple of players...one who has registered as a Novice...and one or two who were considering registration as Novice...stated that they would rather play the concrete tees. We have no problem with that. I will send email to all Novice registrants and ask if they would rather play Intermediate. If so, they will be required to pay the difference between the two entree fees.

Divisions required to play the blue tees will probably be Novice, Juniors and Recreational Women. We have not decided yet as to how many rounds will be played from that position. Note on Recreational Women....that division was not included on the online registration page. If you wish to play in that division, please register as Novice and send me an email, or contact me here on on the tournament Facebook page, and indicate that. I will make note of it and change information on tournament report.

Now that I've confused everybody...including me....I'll take a break and see if I can organize my notes taken today. I will post blue/red position information either later tonight or tomorrow night.

Alan
Re: Red River Rendezvous - Fort Buhlow DGC - 10 Nov 2012
October 27, 2012 09:03PM
I've copied niklpenny's hole descriptions and added red (pro) and blue (novice) tee information....used distances from discasaurus

Hole 1- 213 Ft, Heavy Foliage, Wooded Straight Downhill
No change - All groups play from concrete.

Hole 2- 264 Ft, Heavy Foliage, Wooded Hard Left Curve
Added blue tee at outside apex of outside curve in fairway. Blue tee distance 186 feet. Still wooded.

Hole 3- 220 Ft, Heavy Foliage, Wooded Straight Uphill
No change - All groups play from concrete.

Hole 4- 310 Ft, Heavy Foliage, Wooded Hard Left Curve Downhill
Added blue tee where path from basket 3 to 4th tee joins 4's fairway. Distance 201 feet. Tee at trash can. Still wooded. Downhill.

Hole 5- 320 Ft, Heavy Foliage, Tall Bush's & Concrete Path on left, Tree's & slight opening in middle, Dense Woods on Right, Straight Downhill
Added blue tee to front left. Blue tee 180. Medium to lightly wooded.
Added red tee where road forms a tee to the left of concrete. Straight across road from 4's pin. Blind shot up and over hill. Trees in line with basket. 331 feet.

Hole 6- 312 Ft, Light Foliage, Big Tree's left, and tree's right & near green, Open Field Uphill, Elevated Basket, OB Directly past green
Added blue tee front left of concrete tee. About halfway down main fairway to left. 189 feet. Forced low drive.
Added red tee in woods behind concrete tee. 403 feet through a window of trees. (some trimming left to do)

Hole 7- 549 Ft, Heavy Foliage, Small Gap, Extremely Dense Woods, Tree's in Fairway, Tall Grass, Open/Woods, Straight Uphill, OB Behind Green (this hole starts in open field and closes into thick woods around 100-120 feet from pin)
Added blue tee about halfway between concrete and woods. 213 feet. Same line as concrete tee fairway.

Hole 8- 250 Ft, Heavy Foliage, Minimal Clearance, Forest Level Dense, Extreme Straight Uphill, Basket Behind Bushes not visible, OB Close Left (this hole is from one hilltop to another)
Added blue tee at bottom of draw between hills. 159 feet extreme uphill shot.

Hole 9- 395 Ft. Light Foliage, Open Field/1 Large Tree, Hard Right Curve, High Downhill, Tall Grass, Basket Near Dense Woods, OB Woods Right (tee on ridge. downhill to dogleg right)
Added blue tee 270 feet - almost straight shot with heavy woods to right
Added red tee to back left of concrete. Around 425 feet. Must negotiate trees before you hit open field.

Tired....gotta work tomorrow....thanks, niklpenny, for the hole descriptions. Thanks, Jazzcaster, for the work on the distances.

Will post more later....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2012 09:34PM by Warlord.
Re: Red River Rendezvous - Fort Buhlow DGC - 10 Nov 2012
October 28, 2012 07:39PM
Hole 10 Split Fairway open field on left with left to right bend....water on right to basket on peninsula.
Left 310 Ft. Heavy Foliage, Left Path-Open Left Side w/Tall Grass, Woods on Right & Around Green, Hard Right Curve, OB Close Right (not sure about distance on this route...suspect that the actual route is higher)
Right 290 Ft. Heavy Foliage, Right Path- Small Gap thru Overgrowth, Tree's, & Limbs, 270 feet to clear water, Basket on peninsula with water to right (I saw Josh Patin(?) almost skip ace this one on Saturday.....hit the cage....said it was his first time to play the hole)

Added blue tee on left fairway 255 blind left to right shot.

Hole 11- 344 Ft Light Foliage, Field, Tree's Both Sides, Big Overhanging Tree in Fairway, Tall Grass, Straight, OB Woods Right & Road Past Green

Added blue tee left side of fairway at 222 feet.

Hole 12- 297 Ft Light Foliage, Field, In Fairway Tree's Near Tee, Tree's line both Fairway Edges, Tree's circle basket in green, Tall Grass, Straight (not sure about distance on this one, either)

Added blue tee at 249 feet in same line as concrete tee.

Hole 13- 500 Ft Heavy Foliage, Dogleg, Woods, Water, Bridge, Tree's Line Fairway, Basket Behind Bush, OB Mandatory Distance Woods Left (no mando in effect in this tournament)

Added blue tee at dogleg. 240 feet through small openings over bridge or left of bridge.

Hole 14- 310 Ft Light Foliage, Open Field w/Tall grass, Couple trees near fairway & far right, Wall of tree's 4 ft to left blocks basket, Straight,

Added blue tee at 240 feet right of fairway.
Added red tee at 501 feet. Right and behind concrete.

Hole 15- 325 Ft Light Foliage, Open Field, Tree Middle Fairway...basket framed by limbs in this tree, Tall Grass, Straight, slight Downhill

Added blue tree at tree in fairway 219 feet.
Added red tee on rise by baseball field past highline. 522 feet.

Hole 16- 310 Ft Light Foliage, Open Field, Huge Tree Right, Straight uphill, OB Roadway to left, Roadway Past Green, Playground to right

Added red tee on other side of tree line to the left of concrete tee. 492 feet along o.b. road to left and behind pin.

Hole 17- 250 Ft Heavy Foliage, Small Gap Dense Woods, Hard Curve to Left, Basket on Elevated Dirt Mound, OB Barb wire Fence Left, Restroom

Added blue tee on other side of gap. 123 feet right to left blind shot.

Hole 18- 236 Ft Heavy Foliage, Minimal Clearance Dense Woods, Curves Left, Basket Near Woods, Uphill, OB Picnic area parking lot past green

No changes....all divisions throw from concrete

That's it.

Hope to make it out there next Sunday....if not, I will be down there maybe the next Thursday, certainly Friday, to finalize preparation for the tourney.
Re: Red River Rendezvous - Fort Buhlow DGC - 10 Nov 2012
October 29, 2012 11:07AM
I have a minor correction on a couple of the distances. On 10, the distance around to the left of the trees (the safe, dry route from the tee) is approximately 332'. The distance on No. 13 is calculated around the dogleg. However, if the dogleg doesn't have to be followed for the tournament, the distance is 443'. Also, the OB situation along the ditch and woods probably needs to be clarified. The ditch is dry but it and the area over the woods is marked OB on the sign. It looks like the intention was to make the ditch OB. However, if it is dry, is there any OB on 13? BTW, that ditch only fills when the river backs up in the winter and spring. Below is a draft scorecard with all the distances marked (I still have to change the distance on 13). Also, let me know what you want to do about the par designations.



Another question, do the players have to sign the scorecards like in golf? If so, I'll put signature lines on the back along with the course map. If not, there is room for notes for holes, like the OB path on 7, not having to follow the dogleg on 13, etc.
Re: Red River Rendezvous - Fort Buhlow DGC - 10 Nov 2012
October 29, 2012 11:59AM
the TD has said the following about "par":

turbo [ PM ] [ Ignore User ]
Re: FORT BUHLOW DISC GOLF COURSE
September 28, 2012 11:17PM Registered: 3 years ago
Posts: 40
All holes are par 3 guys. I have seen the bird on # 13 wow! Wayne Gorman. Changing par will not change your "Game" only your ego. If you are new to disc golf don't worry about par work on your game. Nov, 3 is the date i have picked for the tournament. Will check with the park ranger about date and reserving park for tournament. Will post details with confirmed date in the next few days. David Roberts #46250 (225) 330-9094

Quit trying to push your agenda and follow what the TD has said. He has been playing longer than 5 months. All ya'll are doing is making it hard to pick between this event and the 1 in Jackson Ms.

___________________________________________________________________________
Keith "Sunshine" B.

"You are truly one miserable human being."
Alxtgr
Re: Red River Rendezvous - Fort Buhlow DGC - 10 Nov 2012
October 29, 2012 12:26PM
Not a hard decision in my mind but them I'm biased.

JABBA


it MUST be the plastic
Re: Red River Rendezvous - Fort Buhlow DGC - 10 Nov 2012
October 29, 2012 01:03PM
Keith, you should look up "appeal to authority."

So you think that I am misinterpreting the PDGA Par guidelines? Please explain. But, if you don't understand the guidelines and the need for a uniform standard for par, then you just don't understand what "par" is. But, go ahead, decry a draft scorecard as an "agenda." From a space standpoint on the card, the par designation area would have a better use than just putting all 3's which would be worse than pointless. I could fit the signature lines on the front with that extra space. Of course, for the tournament, that might be the better use anyway.

Incidentally, the par designation question did not call for an answer from you; but I can't say that your response was unexpected.

As for your decision of what tournament to attend, maybe you should follow your own advice:

Quote
I think you guys should sit back a [sic] relax about the whole par thing. Work on you [sic] game, enjoy the course, and have fun. "Par" is not that important in the grand scheme of things.

For someone to whom "par" is not that important, you sure seem to care an awful lot about it.
Re: Red River Rendezvous - Fort Buhlow DGC - 10 Nov 2012
October 29, 2012 01:33PM
Look guys, dave roberts said the for the tourny everything is going par 3. After the tourny yall can play the holes the way yall want. TD is in charge!
Anonymous User
Re: Red River Rendezvous - Fort Buhlow DGC - 10 Nov 2012
October 29, 2012 02:12PM
Lol, these two guys STILL going on about par, lol
Re: Red River Rendezvous - Fort Buhlow DGC - 10 Nov 2012
October 29, 2012 04:02PM
gonna go play today and check out the new tee's. but I am about 99% sure I will be registering as MA2, from the descriptions . Awaiting my PDGA number which comes tomorrow, and then I will online register as MA2.
Re: Red River Rendezvous - Fort Buhlow DGC - 10 Nov 2012
October 29, 2012 04:52PM
1. Thank you, Jazzcaster, for the corrected distances. I had a feeling 10 was off a little.

2. There will be no mando on 13 for the tournament. The ditch will not be considered out of bounds because 1) no water, and 2) it would be too hard to mark over 600 feet (both sides) of boundary lines. We will clarify during player's meeting.

3. Par designations...and I consider my personal par on those two holes to be 4...should be listed as 3 unless the official TD (David Roberts) indicates otherwise.

4. The card looks outstanding...professionally done. There should be a field/blank for initials after the totals.

5. I think that we decided that on, or over, all hard paths or roads would be considered out of bounds.

6. Keith, we would prefer for you to come to our tournament, but if you choose the other, I understand. Wouldn't mind meeting you.

7. To all....let's just play the game....total our scores....and have a good time. I guarantee all will have a good lunch, courtesy of David.
Re: Red River Rendezvous - Fort Buhlow DGC - 10 Nov 2012
October 29, 2012 05:22PM
Allan,
You and Dave are doing a great job! I though we had meet before???? I could be wrong. It has happen once! LOL I was out of the conservation. but the locals in CENLA had to keep pushing their little agenda about 2 holes. Hell hole 4 at Highland gold was over 700 feet and played as a 3 par. Same with hole 2 gold, 8 gold 18 gold by their small minds I have been playing disc golf wrong for over 25 years. Nothing like 2 CENLA pro disc golfers that have been playing for 5 months tell us we have been wrong for 25 years...... but what the H E L L...... they have a course and know how to read, by those standards they should be in charge of the pDGA. I should have expected it from CENLA though I blame myself!

Jabba,
I love that course and it's closer!

___________________________________________________________________________
Keith "Sunshine" B.

"You are truly one miserable human being."
Alxtgr
Re: Red River Rendezvous - Fort Buhlow DGC - 10 Nov 2012
October 29, 2012 05:29PM
Quote

I though we had meet before????

I don't recall that...but then again, I met a local at Buhlow twice in the same day for the first time. Brain just stopped working....embarrassing.
Re: Red River Rendezvous - Fort Buhlow DGC - 10 Nov 2012
October 29, 2012 10:03PM
3. Par designations...and I consider my personal par on those two holes to be 4...should be listed as 3 unless the official TD (David Roberts) indicates otherwise.

I'll just save the space and put signature/initial designations. It's meaningless and a waste of space to put 3 on every hole, signs or cards. Card above now reflects that change.

Do you want #3 and #5 notes above on the back of the card? There should be plenty of room for that in addition to the map.
Re: Red River Rendezvous - Fort Buhlow DGC - 10 Nov 2012
October 29, 2012 10:29PM
Keith Bodin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hell hole 4 at
> Highland gold was over 700 feet and played as a 3
> par.

Everything over 600 is a par 4 for gold tees. Saying that it "plays as a par 3" just shows your ignorance of the meaning of "par."

> Same with hole 2 gold, 8 gold 18 gold by
> their small minds I have been playing disc golf
> wrong for over 25 years.

No, at least not that I know of. You just don't know what "par" is. And don't care enough to argue about it either I guess.

> Nothing like 2 CENLA pro
> disc golfers that have been playing for 5 months
> tell us we have been wrong for 25 years...... but
> what the H E L L...... they have a course and know
> how to read, by those standards they should be in
> charge of the pDGA.

Yes, we do know how to read and to determine the correct par. The silly part is that we are beginners and know the correct par because it is so easy to determine: hence the incredulity that people who are old enough to have been playing for 25 years don't understand that and the incredibly simple concept that "par" is. Your inane protestations, for which you offer no rational support, are like saying, "What, you just started playing basketball and you think you know where the three point line is and that a regulation goal is 10' off the floor just because you can read the rulebook?"

BTW, it's the PDGA's par guidelines.
Re: Red River Rendezvous - Fort Buhlow DGC - 10 Nov 2012
October 29, 2012 11:03PM
lol, I quit reading the other tread a week or two ago and you people are still arguing over par....

I can't wait to see how many card have to be stroked by adding their score wrong... well I should say adding them as they have at just about any other tournament.

Good luck with Your tournament guys, I hope to make it over to that course sometime soon.
Re: Red River Rendezvous - Fort Buhlow DGC - 10 Nov 2012
October 29, 2012 11:17PM
1. It's rude to talk about CENLA or any place for that matter, because now you are degrading an entire area of people, not just the person you are arguing with. Very unsportsmanlike conduct. I don't know you, and you don't know me. I am not from Cenla, but I live here now and have taken offense to what you have said.
2. It's unprofessional to come in to this forum and promote a different tournament. It's just plain disrespectful.
3. The Discussion on "Par" is already going hard in the Buhlow general discussion thread. Lets keep it on that forum, and lets keep it civilized. I have already had somebody step outta line and say some things on here that he would not say to my face if he met me in person. Remember forums are for discussion, it's kinda the point of it all. But for the sake of closing it out on this chat, I want to remind everyone that the pars in a tournament are set by the Tournament Director, The PDGA has given par "guidelines" but they are not policy, So it is ultimately up to tournament director. Since they are not used for scoring purposes in tournaments, there is no more need to discuss them on this particular thread.

OK now that that is outta of the way
Checked out the course today, and the additional tee's Alan setup. I don't think it would be fair for me to shoot from Blue tee's, I would be sandbagging if I did. So it's the concrete pads(MA2) for me. I also check out the Red tee's, and although I think I could I handle a couple of em, I am man enough to say there are a couple of em I am not skilled enough yet to compete on. Good Luck to those of you that are playing red, cause he def made it a challenge. Either way win or lose, I am gonna have fun, and I hope to learn something. Even though I have been playing for ten years, this is my first tournament, as I really only started taking disc golf seriously this year, going from playing once every couple months or so, off and on, to playing 4 to 5 times per week for 7 months straight now and becoming a pdga member.
Re: Red River Rendezvous - Fort Buhlow DGC - 10 Nov 2012
October 29, 2012 11:27PM
Jazzcaster(Eric), I met you at Buhlow. I was the one who had said I was with a guy who found your disc in the water at Kee's park, you were with P.Lafleur, and I don't remember who, but one of ya'll was wearing slacks, and a dress shirt. I was the guy with tattoo's covering both of my forearms. I had just hung up a flyer for the tournament on the Tee pole for hole 1.
Anyway

Nice to have met you
Re: Red River Rendezvous - Fort Buhlow DGC - 10 Nov 2012
October 30, 2012 02:41AM
Par For The Course, from Zen Golf by Dr. Joseph Parent

"Par" is an example of an illusory "box" that mid- to high-handicap golfers create for themselves. They would do well to think outside of it.

Less than 1 percent of all golfers have completed a round of golf in par or better. That makes it a rather unrealistic target score for all but the most skilled among us. Measuring yourself against the par of the scorecard is a setup for failure for the average golfer.

Another problem with par is that it is printed on the scorecards and signs. When it was first used, the number set as "par for the course" varied according to the difficulty of the course conditions under which a competition was played. If it was played in a howling wind and driving rain on a long, tight golf couse, par might have been set at 85 that day. A scorecard doesn't change with the weather. Would you expect to shoot the same score at your home course on a cold, rainy, windy day as on a sunny and calm day? Unlikely. How about when they've narrowed the fairways and let the rough grow for a tournament? No, Again. So why measure yor score against the same number in widely different conditions?

I suggest that you set your own par for the course. Change the par written on the scorecard to reflect your handicap, as well as the conditions, making it your "personal par for the day." Before each round, on your scorecard, cross out and rewrite the par given to each of the harder holes on the course. Add one for as many holes as you receive handicap strokes (and one or two more if the weather or course conditions are extra challenging). The harder par-4 holes are now par-5s, etc.

For high handicappers (over 18), on some holes your "personal par" will be two strokes higher than the par on the scorecard. You will become much more at ease approaching a difficult hole from this new perspective. It will also encourage more patience in recovering from a mis-hit, knowing you have that extra stroke or two to get to the green.

You'll also feel much better at the end of a hole or the end of a round by using this perspective-changing technique. For a 20-handicapper playing the hardest hole, instead of dejectedly saying, "I made another double-bogey," you get to say, "I made my par!" at the end of your round, instead of saying, "I shot a ninety-one," you get to say, "I finished at one under par!" It's pretty clear which will make you feel more encouraged about this round and more confident about the next one.

Some might say this could lead to complacency. However, I've found it will actually enhance your interest in improving your game and lowering your handicap. In this way, you can gradually reduce your personal par. The idea of reaching par on the scorecard seems an insurmountable task when it is twenty strokes away. Getting there little by little with rewards along the way is much more workable.
Re: Red River Rendezvous - Fort Buhlow DGC - 10 Nov 2012
October 30, 2012 04:42AM
One drive, one approach, one putt.

One bourbon, one scotch, one beer.
Re: Red River Rendezvous - Fort Buhlow DGC - 10 Nov 2012
October 30, 2012 10:43AM
Highlander, I don't think that anyone takes issue with any frame-of-mind approach that people use to make the game more enjoyable for themselves. But whatever tricks help you enjoy more, play better or feel better about yourself don't really have much to do with what par actually is.

Par is a number that is used to describe the comparatively difficulty of different holes. When someone argues that every hole is a "par 3" they are essentially saying that every hole is basically of the same level of difficulty and should take the same number of strokes/throws to hole out.

Taking the position that all holes are the same is incompatible with the notion that par compares holes of different difficulty levels. So when someone says that every hole is par 3, they are saying something that is internally inconsistent, i.e., it does not make sense.

If a person can agree that different holes can have different par (i.e., if you can simply acknowledge a basic implication of the notion of par) then the only argument is about where to draw the line between the different par designations. If a person cannot agree that different holes can have different par, then that person simply doesn't understand what "par" is.
Re: Red River Rendezvous - Fort Buhlow DGC - 10 Nov 2012
October 30, 2012 11:15AM
If everyone is special, then no one is.
Re: Red River Rendezvous - Fort Buhlow DGC - 10 Nov 2012
October 30, 2012 11:21AM
Thanks for that ZEN moment Highlander. Jacques give me a double please ! Ok guys all holes on tournament day will be PAR 3. You new Disc Flyers will just have to trust me that this is best for tournament day. I have seen lots of strokes add to cards when par 4s and 5s are added to the tournament. I have seen others lose the tournament over this problem "adding the score up". I have seen the entire card stroked for this problem. I know this sounds silly to those that can + and - but it happens almost every time. About 95% of all tournaments in Louisiana, will be setup as Par 3 tournaments so get a "grip" on this concept. Please take the Par Discussion back to General Discussion. All divisions will shoot the first round from concrete. Jr and Novice will shoot "blue" both rounds. 2nd round Pro and Adv men from the "red " all other divisions from concrete. I hope this clears up any questions about tournament day.
.
Anonymous User
Re: Red River Rendezvous - Fort Buhlow DGC - 10 Nov 2012
October 30, 2012 11:23AM
I was following the Syrian Civil War, but this is better. :>)
Re: Red River Rendezvous - Fort Buhlow DGC - 10 Nov 2012
October 30, 2012 11:49AM
How are tee times handled? Is there a shotgun start? Groups going off 1 and 10?
Re: Red River Rendezvous - Fort Buhlow DGC - 10 Nov 2012
October 30, 2012 02:43PM
shotgun

___________________________________________________________________________
Keith "Sunshine" B.

"You are truly one miserable human being."
Alxtgr
Re: Red River Rendezvous - Fort Buhlow DGC - 10 Nov 2012
October 30, 2012 03:13PM
Yes....shotgun start. Groups going off on every hole at same time.
Re: Red River Rendezvous - Fort Buhlow DGC - 10 Nov 2012
October 30, 2012 03:45PM
Hopefully, I can start on 12 so I can be in a terrible mood the rest of the round.
Re: Red River Rendezvous - Fort Buhlow DGC - 10 Nov 2012
October 30, 2012 04:27PM
Turbo,

How many scorecards do you need?

Do you want separate scorecards for each round?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2012 04:29PM by Jazzcaster.
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