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Current SN Handbook

Posted by Eric Day 
Re: New SN Handbook
February 07, 2014 05:01PM
Keith Bodin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If a TD decides to not follow a rule as simple as
> the one being discussed, then that TD should not
> be allowed to run anymore SN events. This is not
> rocket since! If you are not on time you get
> stroked! plain and simple!


Just to look at it from a different view, at the last Hiller tournament we did not use holes 5, 6, and 7. So hole 8 became 5, 9 became 6, and so on. (21 hole course)

We had what turned out to be a mess of players wondering around trying to figure out what hole there where supposed to be on. I tried for several minues to wrangle everyone to their correct hole locations. After realizing almost 1/3 the players got confused, I started telling people to just go to this hole or that hole to make groups as equal as possible. So going by the above rule every player that was on the wrong hole should have been stroked, and either Myself (Co TD) or the TD should never run another SN event??? I'm just trying to say that things happen and not everything should be so black and white. The Howler issue mentioned above had 3 different pools with 3 different tee times, ours being the first to start the 2nd round.
Re: New SN Handbook
February 07, 2014 05:29PM
Eric,

That's a tough one. We all make some mistakes, to be sure, and I have made my share. Not being there prior to the event to attend the players meeting, it's easy to say this, or that, not that anything would help.

Too many players are too busy socializing to pay attention to the TD explain how the course is to be played. I would have had to stop and get their attention. I have had to do this on many occasions. Secondly, I would have had the baskets removed, if possible, or at least have a large trash bag over them so the players would know they are not being played. I am also a big one for signage. That being said, you just can't fix stupid sometimes.

The solution is surely not to prevent a prospective great TD from running another event, hell we get enough crap as it is, I KNOW! All you can do is deal with the problem in the best way you know how, it is the TD's choice on how to do this, that it is NOT always going to work out for the better. But you learn!

I would bet the next time they would be making some changes based on what they learned!

No one ever said running an event is an easy thing. You can't have any "friends", they ALL want you to bend the rules in their favor, it just doesn't work that way. You have to make the tough calls, and they will not always be the right ones.

Dg Guy - Disc GOlf Plaques & Awards
662-660-0339

Know what you throw. . .
. . . throw what you know!
Re: New SN Handbook
February 08, 2014 11:54AM
SN Rule "6.4.2 TD discretion is allowed in grouping to facilitate ease of play." I don't claim to know what this rule means but it is discretionary grouping authority and I don't see a deadline on it. I would never argue it should be used to save a late player but whatever that authority is it is irrelevant to the scenario we are discussing. In this case "The TD allowed them to go back in play the wholes afterwards", so there was no grouping re-assignment.

SN 6.3.2 does give us a "par plus four" scoring rule for the unready. How does that rule differ from PDGA 803.03 G. (5) as applied to this scenario? Please note that the rule cited by DG Guy for the proposition that the TD erred in this case is 1.5 B.1. of the PDGA Competition Manual which is specifically referenced by 803.03 G. (5). It's a rule on what happens in each group not a rule on which group a player is supposed to play in.

So the bottom line in this case is that there was no excuse for letting these late players make up these holes. Now what should the SN do about it?
Re: New SN Handbook
February 08, 2014 02:37PM
Discjazz,

After the fact is a hard act to follow up on! At the SNPC in Huntsville a few years ago an unqualified player cashed and took the money, the SN reversed it and asked for the money back, didn't happen unless it did later and I did not hear of it.

Was not a good thing!

In this case, or cases, you would first have to get the BOD to take a unified stance, good luck with that also, then take action, I'm sure, and then have the affected players payouts resolved, even a longer shot!

But I agree, there needs to be recourse! in an ideal world, the prizes and players would swap on their own to correct the issue. Just like you should stroke yourself for a rules violation (which I have done) without it having to be called out by a fellow player. After all, aren't Disc Golfers some of the greatest people on the planet, I personally think so. But I could be wrong!!!!!

I am still waiting on a guy to return $75 (half of an ace pot) that I had to pay out of my pocket to the guy he split it with. Another reason it is hard to get good people to run theses throw offs while you are completing the payout! I hope he remembers his wrong every time he looks through that scope he bought and pulls the trigger! Karma WILL PREVAIL!

Dg Guy - Disc GOlf Plaques & Awards
662-660-0339

Know what you throw. . .
. . . throw what you know!
Re: New SN Handbook
February 08, 2014 03:15PM
Yep. Attempts to fix payout after the fact are often futile. One way is player suspension lifted only by compliance. I do remember that didn't work with $1,000 at stake from the Huntsville SNPC, but I also remember the TD gave him the exemption arguably within his discretion per rule. We fixed the rule for the future, no exemptions, 2 points 2 play.

There is a similarity to this scenario, a TD's ruling, but in this case it clearly violated a rule. It's really the TD who is most due the correction in scenarios like this and we best tread very softly on that turf if there was no favoritism intended. We should at least make sure the TD knows the error now and vows not to repeat it in a future SN event.
Re: New SN Handbook
February 10, 2014 08:45PM
This was Saturday of the Howler 2 nd round. Everyone started the same time.
Re: New SN Handbook
February 10, 2014 09:44PM
Eric Day Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Keith Bodin Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If a TD decides to not follow a rule as simple
> as
> > the one being discussed, then that TD should
> not
> > be allowed to run anymore SN events. This is
> not
> > rocket since! If you are not on time you get
> > stroked! plain and simple!
>
>
> Just to look at it from a different view, at the
> last Hiller tournament we did not use holes 5, 6,
> and 7. So hole 8 became 5, 9 became 6, and so on.
> (21 hole course)
>
> We had what turned out to be a mess of players
> wondering around trying to figure out what hole
> there where supposed to be on. I tried for several
> minues to wrangle everyone to their correct hole
> locations. After realizing almost 1/3 the players
> got confused, I started telling people to just go
> to this hole or that hole to make groups as equal
> as possible. So going by the above rule every
> player that was on the wrong hole should have been
> stroked, and either Myself (Co TD) or the TD
> should never run another SN event??? I'm just
> trying to say that things happen and not
> everything should be so black and white. The
> Howler issue mentioned above had 3 different pools
> with 3 different tee times, ours being the first
> to start the 2nd round.

Eric, please don't take this wrong.....I blame the TD for not communicating......If that many people are screwed up then changing the course was a bad choice. Either leave the course intact or make sure you have enough people to "direct traffic...."

___________________________________________________________________________
Keith "Sunshine" B.

"You are truly one miserable human being."
Alxtgr
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