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jcb
Re: Wall Doxey Rumble in the Jungle Sept. 21st & 22nd
September 16, 2013 08:36PM
Also I would like to add Gary that someone from Florence did not schedule the tournament here and we would never schedule an event the same weekend as Wall Doxey. I'll just leave it at that.
Re: Wall Doxey Rumble in the Jungle Sept. 21st & 22nd
September 17, 2013 07:17AM
Thanks, James. I look forward to seeing you and the rest of the crew.

With regard to the PDGA I believe they will continue schedule their events with complete and utter disregard for established SNDG tournaments. There is only one way to curb this practice and that is to hit them in the pocket book. If the PDGA sees that stepping on an SNDG event will adversely impact their attendance then they will at lease consider what we are doing out of their own self interest if not common courtesy.

So it boils down to this: if you want the PDGA to compete with SNDG events in our own back yard then you need to support and encourage them by playing in Florence or Millington this weekend. But if you want them to have some consideration of SNDG tournaments, then I hope to see you at Wall Doxey State Park.

Gary Wagoner
Re: Wall Doxey Rumble in the Jungle Sept. 21st & 22nd
September 17, 2013 09:30AM
I don't think the pdga is out to get SN TD's and events.
jcb
Re: Wall Doxey Rumble in the Jungle Sept. 21st & 22nd
September 17, 2013 11:07AM
I don't think some of these problems are the PDGA themselves but more on the people who schedule these events the same weekend as established SN events. I guess some people have no respect in regards to this matter or they have zero respect for the Southern Nationals in the first place. I, for one believe they can coexist if people who plan on running tournaments take into account both series tournament schedules when planning for events. I do understand that both have crowded schedules but I have always been able to schedules things around each of them without feeling like my event is competing against another. Just need to see more tds keeping this in account when scheduling tournaments in areas where both are present.

Sorry for cluttering up your tournament forum with this sort of thing but I just wanted to speak my thought. Now back to the Wall Doxey tournament. With all the sponsors you have I don't see why anyone would go to some other event. They will be missing out.
Re: Wall Doxey Rumble in the Jungle Sept. 21st & 22nd
September 17, 2013 12:37PM
I, Ernie Rodriguez (President of the Circle 3 Disc Golf Club that serves the Greater Memphis area, and yes, we primarily hold PDGA events) have the utmost respect for the SN series and I DO believe that both can coexist. But, respect works two ways. When planning for the tournaments we've held in 2013, we did take into consideration the PDGA and SN established tournaments and dates. If you look at the past tournament dates/weekends you will see that the Rumble has for the last several years been held on the 4th weekend in September...and the Copper Hills has been held on the 3rd weekend(look it up, it's pretty easy, right here on the SN site and the PDGA site). I know that last year, the Copper Hills was a PDGA sanctioned event run by Circle 3...but the same 3rd weekend.

So...who has shown "Complete and Utter Disregard" for established events? Looks to me like the TD for the Rumble is the culprit. When we(Cirlce 3) saw that the "Established Rumble" had changed their dates to the "Established Copper Hills" tourney dates, We(Circle 3) are the ones that felt infringed upon.

Sorry, I don't like confrontation...but if you are making false accusations at my club, then I will defend it...with FACTS!
Re: Wall Doxey Rumble in the Jungle Sept. 21st & 22nd
September 17, 2013 02:30PM
I would like to thank NES Rentals for their $100 sponsorship. NES rents a wide variety of construction related equipment: boom lifts, scissor lifts, lulls, generators, compressors, jackhammers and practically any power tools you may need. If you need a piece of equipment for a few days or several months call Callen Herring at 901-323-0009.

Gary Wagoner
Re: Wall Doxey Rumble in the Jungle Sept. 21st & 22nd
September 17, 2013 02:59PM
August 31-sept 1st....1st weekend of september
Sept 7th-sept 8th.......2nd weekend of september
Sept 14th-Sept 15th....3rd weekend of Sept
Sept 21st-22nd......4th weekend of September
Sept 28th-29th......5th weekend of September

not trying to stir the pot at all but this is the 4th weekend of September.

was on the 22nd and 23rd last year



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2013 03:00PM by hudd.
Re: Wall Doxey Rumble in the Jungle Sept. 21st & 22nd
September 17, 2013 03:17PM
Actually..... this month started on a sunday. This will be the 3rd full weekend of this month....kinda could go both ways.
Re: Wall Doxey Rumble in the Jungle Sept. 21st & 22nd
September 17, 2013 03:40PM
Which Sunday is a weekend day.
Re: Wall Doxey Rumble in the Jungle Sept. 21st & 22nd
September 17, 2013 04:01PM
Yes but still could be controversial because we are talking about Saturday events.
Re: Wall Doxey Rumble in the Jungle Sept. 21st & 22nd
September 17, 2013 04:07PM
no we are talking about a saturday /sunday event. The statement was that it was scheduled for the 3rd weekend instead of the 4th weekend. When in fact it was scheduled for the same weekend as it was last season and the season before that.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2013 04:09PM by hudd.
Re: Wall Doxey Rumble in the Jungle Sept. 21st & 22nd
September 17, 2013 05:00PM
It is too late to gripe about both tournaments occurring during the same weekend. Obviously, the TDs did not see the number of the weekends the same way. Same with Zack and Dustin. Each sees the FIRST weekend differently. As Ernie said earlier, he had chosen this weekend because he thought the Wall Doxey tournament was going to be the last weekend. If you look at all the other weekends of the Memphis PDGA tournaments, there were no SNDG tournaments nearby. Unfortunately, both tournaments may suffer as a result of the split attendance. Let's learn from this problem and be sure to schedule early to avoid this problem next year. Copper Hills should be Sept. 20-21, 2014, and Wall Doxey should be Sept. 27-28. The 2013-2014 SN schedule has few tournaments on the schedule. As of right now, there are 3 January tournaments, only one tournament scheduled in February, 2 in April, and NONE in May. If ALL tournaments were submitted BEFORE the season began, especially the regular annual ones, it would be easier to schedule PDGA events around them.
Re: Wall Doxey Rumble in the Jungle Sept. 21st & 22nd
September 17, 2013 05:23PM
Well, to paraphrase Jimmy Buffett, it looks like its my own darn fault as much else's even though last year's event was only one day removed from this one. Having said that I want to apologize to the Circle 3 Disc Golf Club in general and Ernie Rodriguez in particular for any aspersions I have cast their way. Moreover, I commit to reach out to Mr. Rodriguez to talk about next year to make sure this doesn't happen again.

This should be a learning moment for everyone. Two events in close proximity are detrimental to both. Our BOD does a good job of playing traffic cop within SNDG. Perhaps they might open a line of communication with the PDGA and red flag scheduling conflicts. I'm not saying that one orginization should automatically defer to the other, but if the conflict is realized far enough in advance something could be worked out between TDs.

Gary Wagoner



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2013 06:46PM by niklpenny.
Re: Wall Doxey Rumble in the Jungle Sept. 21st & 22nd
September 18, 2013 08:25AM
Pretty akward timing to start playing the blame game. This thread was established in May, so IMO, anyone that was offended should have reached out at point, and maybe something could have been worked out. All you can do now is suffer the consequences of split attendances and do better next time.

I'm sure both TD's have worked hard on their tournanments, so let's just call it a scheduling mishap by both sides and leave it at that.

I sure miss the early 2000's era. It was when I first started playing in tournaments and it seemed like the Wall Doxey and Memphis events were always packed and a blast (not to mention all of the flat top roc tourney stamps!). Now it seems like all of the division amongst players has diluted our area tourneys.

BTW Gary, I made camping reservations so it appears official. I'm hoping the approaching cold front pushes through while we're sleeping! Supposed to be super once it passes.
Re: Wall Doxey Rumble in the Jungle Sept. 21st & 22nd
September 18, 2013 10:33AM
I want to thank Wright Property Management for their $200 sponsorship. WPM manages scores of condo and apartment complexes in Memphis. They work for homeowner's associations to take care of all maintenance and repairs, taxes, lawn service, pest control, etc. In short they handle all the communal responsibilities in multi-family facilities. The only problems the residents have to worry about is each other.

With only two days remaining before the tournament WPM's generosity brings the sponsorship level to $2,450.00. I doubt that I will receive any more sponsorships at this late date but this year's total exceeds last year's amount by $150. The payout last year turned out fine so I have decided to double the amount of the skins from $25/hole to $50/hole for a total of $300. The participants will be decided by the 6 lowest scores from all Pro divisions but, as I stated earlier, I reserve the right to cull the field if some crazy tie results in an unmanageable number of otherwise eligible players. The sponsorship money will also be used to pay the $3/head park course fee, $2/head SNDG sanctioning fee and other expenses. Last year the ams were paid out 101% and the pros 198%. This year should be a little better for the pros.

Gary Wagoner
Re: Wall Doxey Rumble in the Jungle Sept. 21st & 22nd
September 18, 2013 11:01AM
If you had $2300 added and then add the entry fees it would come to $5,710. Now its showing that you paid out $4,243. That is a difference of $1467. If I do recall, you also do your own payouts as well. Which (in some cases) could be $4-7 a disc. I would feel confident that you paid out close to 100 discs that could add up to $400-700 profit just on the discs if not more. That would mean that you could be making close to half of what the entire tournament payout value is. Subtracting fees and work spent on the event still wouldn't add up to close to $2000. Now my math could be wrong and I hope it is because I look up to you as a tournament director and your a good guy.
Re: Wall Doxey Rumble in the Jungle Sept. 21st & 22nd
September 18, 2013 11:06AM
Seems like in nearly every thread I look, there's Dustin Morris accusing someone of inapppropriately using tournament funds. One day you're going to accuse the wrong person.
Re: Wall Doxey Rumble in the Jungle Sept. 21st & 22nd
September 18, 2013 11:24AM
This is the 2nd time I have mentioned something like this. I just bring up numbers.....numbers do not lie.
Re: Wall Doxey Rumble in the Jungle Sept. 21st & 22nd
September 18, 2013 11:44AM
Dustin,

Your math is wrong. Did you account for the park fee? Did you account for the SNDG fee? Did you account for the tournament disc that every sponsor receives? Did you account for CTP prizes, Ring of Fire prizes, printing, baggies, sharpies, etc.? You are clueless of what goes into running a tournament. Every sponsor gets a complete accounting of how their money was spent. I post on the forum who gave how much money and subsequently the payouts. It can all be cross checked with the financial report if they so desire. If I was pocketing the funds they would not be coming back year after year.

You obviously don't like the way I run things and you have announced that you won't be playing in this tournament. Please make this a tradition.

You don't have a dog in this hunt. Go rain on someone else's parade.

Gary Wagoner
Re: Wall Doxey Rumble in the Jungle Sept. 21st & 22nd
September 18, 2013 12:09PM
:) $2000 would be a low number and do you think it cost $2000 for all of those things? lets just subtract $1000 for giggles because it wouldn't cost that. $1000



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/18/2013 12:19PM by dustin morris.
Re: Wall Doxey Rumble in the Jungle Sept. 21st & 22nd
September 18, 2013 01:24PM
TDGA made less than that when they hosted the snac.
Re: Wall Doxey Rumble in the Jungle Sept. 21st & 22nd
September 18, 2013 02:37PM
Like I said: 1. all the money was accounted for and 2. you don't have a clue. I don't know where you got that idea that I am answerable to you but I assure you that I am not. I don't suffer fools very well so I'm done talking to you.

Gary Wagoner
Re: Wall Doxey Rumble in the Jungle Sept. 21st & 22nd
September 18, 2013 08:18PM
I wish everyone the best of luck.. Despite the hype, Gary Wagoner, you always cool in my camp.. I like the hospitality and good music sessions. "Maybe that's what I pay for." LOLZ>> well worth it.. Rock on Mr Gary.
Re: Wall Doxey Rumble in the Jungle Sept. 21st & 22nd
September 19, 2013 05:58AM
You are correct. All money is accounted for but I know for dang well you wont give a financial report saying how much you made off the event because that would crush you as a tournament director.
Re: Wall Doxey Rumble in the Jungle Sept. 21st & 22nd
September 19, 2013 11:59AM
This just in: I received a call from Wall Doxey saying that the canteen building at te old swimming area has been double booked. They are moving us to the Group Camp Dining Hall. It is a better facility anyway.

Gary Wagoner
Re: Wall Doxey Rumble in the Jungle Sept. 21st & 22nd
September 19, 2013 12:08PM
Dustin, Gary has put in tournament work for years and I think he only does this one because he enjoys the setting and the season. Do you realize that a lot of people that TD these events have well-paying, full time jobs, and wouldn't trade a few hundred bucks for the several months worth of hassle they have to deal with?

Again, you keep throwing unsubstantiated accusations at people and one day it's going to bite you in the rear. BTW the entry fees and added cash comes to like $5,300 not $5,700.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2013 12:09PM by ThomasD.
Anonymous User
Re: Wall Doxey Rumble in the Jungle Sept. 21st & 22nd
September 19, 2013 12:32PM
Gary, continued from out private message...

Only 67.7% was paid out in advanced.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2013 12:34PM by Dillon Gourley.
Re: Wall Doxey Rumble in the Jungle Sept. 21st & 22nd
September 19, 2013 12:51PM
If you have a well paying job, you should give back to the disc golf community. Not use the disc golf community as a bonus check. When I hosted my event, I think I made about -$200.

ThomasD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dustin, Gary has put in tournament work for years
> and I think he only does this one because he
> enjoys the setting and the season. Do you realize
> that a lot of people that TD these events have
> well-paying, full time jobs, and wouldn't trade a
> few hundred bucks for the several months worth of
> hassle they have to deal with?
>
> Again, you keep throwing unsubstantiated
> accusations at people and one day it's going to
> bite you in the rear. BTW the entry fees and
> added cash comes to like $5,300 not $5,700.
Re: Wall Doxey Rumble in the Jungle Sept. 21st & 22nd
September 19, 2013 01:23PM
-$200 as in I put my money in as well.
Re: Wall Doxey Rumble in the Jungle Sept. 21st & 22nd
September 19, 2013 04:18PM
Dustin,

If this is what you believe propose to the BOD that in order to run a SNDG sanctioned tournament the TD/Club:

1. Can make no profit on any event, and
2. Must submit a detailed financial report for publication on the Forum.

The BOD has been asking for something to vote on. If this becomes the law of the land it would have a profound impact for SNDG for which you could rightly take the credit.

Gary Wagoner
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