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2014 SOUTHERN NATIONALS PRO AND AM CHAMPIONSHIPS-presented by Grass Roots Disc Golf

Posted by 3puttking 
U the man Don!
dangerousdon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 3puutking you can't see it now because I assume
> you are not that old. All the Master players and
> Grandmaster players and even some of the Senior
> Grandmaster players are capable of qualifying for
> a USDGC spot, but the chances are very slim (my
> own opinion). I would say 98% of the time the Open
> players will outscore the Master, GM and SGM, but
> on one special day one of these old guys could
> have a shot. They also, like me, would rather play
> with the group of guys they have been friends with
> for years; many years longer than you have been
> probably playing.

>
> Someone already mentioned this but you could be a
> hero if you did the following:
>
> Why not let all PRO divisions play the same tees
> on the same courses and just count "those" rounds
> for qualifying. Then have the "final nine" for the
> best of the best, the Open players.
>
> The SNPC has always allowed all Pro's to be
> eligible. If you made a mistake, for what ever
> reason in your planning of this event, it is not
> to late to change it.
>
> If you really stopped and thought about this
> instead of being oppositional and defiant ,
> another words Man UP, you would see you would be
> doing the right thing.
>
> The Masters, GM and SGM's are many of the players,
> like myself, who made the SNDG successful. They
> should have the opportunity to have a very special
> day and win a spot to go to the USDGC.
>
> I just don't understand why you would want to have
> "your" SNPC leave a bad taste in the mouth of many
> of the long time supporters of the SN series.
>
> Be a hero, it takes a bigger man to admit his idea
> is wrong, and I hope you can do this. Do the right
> thing.

Don i appreciate the context of your post. I can see it very clearly. I am 37 years old and know full well what age does to a persons golf game. I understand that there is capability in some of the masters divisions, however you are overstating the reality of that possibility. We are giving everyone the opportunity to play in the ONLY OPEN division. I have no problem with you guys choosing to play with your buddies. However in this event if you want to play for a USDGC spot you must play in the OPEN division. It is fair and i have previously stated the reasons for that. I absolutely will not fragment this tournament by making the USDGC the bride and the SN Championship the perk. I appreciate all that you guys have done to establish this sport and this series....All that being said if we truly want to grow this sport and this series then we have to showcase it in a way that draws attention and allows the masses to be a part of the celebrity of it. Making a qualifier bigger than the event itself is ridiculous. The reality is that this decision affects 3% of the field and 100% of the event the way it has been laid out. Making the qualifier bigger than the Championship belittles what we are actually here for. We are not depriving anyone of the opportunity to compete for those 5 spots. You just have to make a decision if you want to play with your buddies or if you want to compete with the Open division. If you truly feel that you can compete then it shouldnt be a hard decision. The only bad taste that will be left is in the mouths of those who dont come. We have spent a year preparing to make this the best SN Championships ever and it will be that. I hope that you guys will realize the championships are bigger than then slim opportunity to qualify. If you dont i respect that decision. This is the last time i will comment on this. Thanks
Re: 2014 SOUTHERN NATIONALS PRO AND AM CHAMPIONSHIPS-presented by Grass Roots Disc Golf
July 11, 2014 01:19AM
3puttking Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bernie, if you want to discuss the USDGC
> qualifying take it somewhere else, that matter is
> over and finalized. Everyone has the opportunity
> to qualify, they just have to play open to do so.
> Acting like a jackass and trying to belittle
> someone on the tournament thread wont do you any
> good. Eric and Casey have helped more than anyone
> else on the BOD in terms of getting things
> together and handling responsibilities. I have
> exchanged a couple of emails with one other person
> on the BOD....outside of that i couldnt even tell
> you who they are. Please take your anger and
> idiocy elsewhere. This thread is for tournament
> information only. Thanks

3puttking I have no idea who you are. I assume at this point that the you must be the TD. The thing I don't understand is why you are so adamantly opposed to the simple solution that would appease everyone. Also please do not lose sight of the fact that you seem to be the only one opposed to the solving this problem in a manner that will please everyone. This is affecting much more than 3% of us & the solution will inconvenience 0% of us not 100%.

Furthermore this is a very important issue that specifically pertains to this tournament. That should be fairly obvious because of the number of players putting forth so much effort to help you understand this. So stop telling us to address it elsewhere.

The possibility of qualification downplays the status of the SN championships in no way. That is specifically the point. We should not have to give up the more likely possibility of becoming a SN champion in whatever division we are eligible for in order to have the opportunity to play for the spots. The USDGC spots are a major bonus. A bonus that has always been & should continue to be available to ALL OPEN divisions. We have qualified for it, paid for it & earned it.

My dilemma, as well as many others, is that 1st place in MASTERS or GRANDMASTERS or SENIOR GRANDMASTERS will pay much more than 5th to 10th in OPEN. Traveling to tournaments costs. We should not have to give up the more likely opportunity to subsidize some our travel costs & get a SN title to get all of the bonuses granted to the SNPC by the USDGC. This has never been an issue before & it does not have to be now. There is over a month & a half until the tournament. Stop being so stubborn.

If this 3puttking guy really is not going to fix this then the SN BOD should step in & make it happen ASAP!
Re: 2014 SOUTHERN NATIONALS PRO AND AM CHAMPIONSHIPS-presented by Grass Roots Disc Golf
July 11, 2014 01:25AM
If you do not realize how interesting, important & influential this is to all of us & our sport. From the players to the SN to the PDGA to the USDGC then please read this article: [www.usdgc.com]
Also notice that not 1 but 3 people in "age restricted" divisions earned 3 of the 5 spots in 2012. This alone should provide enough evidence to the BOD & Grassroots Disc Golf to make them address & correct this problem ASAP.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2014 01:46AM by BERNIE.
Jonathan what Don & Bernie have stated is correct seems to me you are scared some of the other divisions will take away a spot from the famous OPEN division, this is a SN Championship playing for our respected divisions title and if we get a bonus (USDGC) great.
Danny
^^^Even Ray Charles can see that.

BMB
^^^ Stevie Wonder and Helen Keller too!
the solution is so easy.... can you not see it... you are ruining this event by ignoring the past.. why do we always get some idiot that is going to change things for what they THINK is better and what gives him the authority to do so... this BOD is the WORST in the history of BODs ... please listen to reason, the solution is simple... do we need an attorney???? let's get one!!!!!
ok... I have contacted my attorney ... gave him the facts..... he said he will check it out!!!! 3putt, you will need some representation and no, I am not joking....
Really? Not cool Bud.

BMB
is the solution to let ALL the pros play all the same courses, the same days? So, instead of having 2 pools of 90 each (max), just have 1 pool with everybody?

do people like playing in 5 or 6-somes?

Rod Norton
PDGA #43010
Ok I'm gonna try this once again just because I'm stupid enough to think I can get people to listen to reason and it is raining. First let me get out of the way that I think all pros should have a shot at the USDGC spots. Even if there were no USDGC spots to fill I think all pros and advanced too should play the same tees in every event if that is not impossible due to the size of the fields. The reason is so baggers are exposed and scores are comparable across as many divisions as possible. That applies to every event not just the championships.

Now on to the specifics of this issue. The ship sailed for the SN BOD when the TD was chosen. It's a USDGC rule that the TD rules on this issue. However not even the TD can change the same-layout-same-day "overall scores" rule. Whatever the open players play for overall score everybody competing for the spots must play. Of course I am speaking for no one but the plain meaning of the English language but it's right there in black and white.

[www.usdgc.com]

It's a no-go for non-Open players (assuming only 18 hole courses) unless 1) there are four (4) full rounds played, or 2) there are only 90 players in all the pro divisions that might qualify, or 3) groups bigger than 5 are used. I imagine some would look forward to groups of only 4 meaning max of 72 or 4 full rounds are the only options.

No matter the courses played the TD can still limit the spots to Open. It is apparent that 3puttking does not think non-Open players deserve the spots, regardless of layouts played. If the 3puttking entity is the TD then these are the questions that need to be answered:

1) Can someone provide a link to the initial bid publication and board decision?
2) Who is the TD that was awarded the bid and who is the current TD?
3) Has the plea to include all pro divisions been directed to the originally selected TD?
4) Were there any other bids/TD offerings?
5) Has USDGC spot treatment ever been a litmus test for SNPC bid acceptance?
Re: 2014 SOUTHERN NATIONALS PRO AND AM CHAMPIONSHIPS-presented by Grass Roots Disc Golf
July 11, 2014 08:16PM
NINFanInTN Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> is the solution to let ALL the pros play all the
> same courses, the same days? So, instead of
> having 2 pools of 90 each (max), just have 1 pool
> with everybody?
>
> do people like playing in 5 or 6-somes?

Playing in large groups would not be necessary. The SNPC can have 2 OPEN pools as long as we play the same courses on the same day. I guarantee there will not be over 180 players in all OPEN divisions combined.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2014 09:06PM by BERNIE.
Once again....there is ONE OPEN division. That means you that anyone can play regardless of age or gender. Other pro divisions have age or gender restrictions/requirements. They are not OPEN, they are in fact closed unless you meet said requirement.
Wow. U 3putt truly don't get it! Sad sad sad!
So, I just checked all the USDGC qualifying tournaments held this year and not one of them would have sent a Master, GM or SGM to the USDGC. Once again why not let them play for a spot. Historical data shows they will not qualify. It has been this way since the the SNPC became a qualifying tournament.

Many TD's for past SNAC's and SNPC become infamous for lack of payout or just flat out stealing funds, you 3puttking, whoever you are, will become an infamous SNPC TD for being one dumb, oppositional, I'll take my marbles and go home, butt hole. It also reflects bad on one of the greatest cities for disc golf.

On top of that I can't believe the SN Board has not stepped in. What farce!

Dangerous Don
Is there a refund policy for this tournament?
Some good points are made here but arguing the SN Board should step in is not one of them. How does the Board have authority for that? Trying to circumvent USDGC rules seems like a bad plan to me.

Also, the low probability of a non-Open player scoring for a spot is not a great reason to change the Open format or limit the Pro field to 90 with groups of 5.

The reasons the TD should let all pros in are that common layouts promote competitive integrity, allowing our old stars a chance to compete on a national stage promotes our series and these old stars deserve a chance to show they can play the best score.
After reading this tread as it has progressed it seems to me that there is very little support for the TD's position. I was wondering how many other players are in agreement with the TD's reasoning and format? It seems that he is standing alone. I could be wrong that is way I am asking. How many supporters are there after all the discussion that has taken place?
Stfu and throw already. You old farts want some cheese with that whine. At most 5 people may be affected by this. In reality, one or two may be.
Way too much of a fuss being made of this. Its the SN Championships, not a PDGA stepping stone.

People wonder why TD's and BOD members bail left and right. Do all the work and all you hear is complaints and how it should be done differently.
I am not playing...but it is not right to make a player to choose between winning his division (that they played all year for) or playing in a unfamiliar division to get a chance to go the USDGC. I have not talked to one pro master that likes the idea of being excluded from said USDGC spots.

My 2 cents on the matter.
If pre-reg is the only option, then there should be a refund policy.

The following is what a refund policy looks like:

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Pro Worlds Registration and Waitlist

Friday, August 1st is the last day of registration for Pro Worlds. Drops by that date by players in the event will receive a full refund minus the $10 non-refundable handling fee. Drops after that date will receive only the players pack. Anyone on the waitlist may remain on the list and if they don’t get in to the event they will receive a full refund minus the $10 non-refundable handling fee.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Lol, 100% of pro masters support this thread! Really?

Look if you ain't made it by now....
ThomasD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lol, 100% of pro masters support this thread!
> Really?
>
> Look if you ain't made it by now....
Everyone that I have played with...from Memphis to New Orleans. Why screw with something that was never broken to begin with.
Not sure about your last comment, but addressing other peoples games is necessary how? It is not.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/2014 02:33PM by wayneacree.
It was a joke Wayne!
I play in the Pro Master division and I am from Memphis and I support the TD's decision. The SN Board has stated that it's up to the TD. The USDGC rules clearly state that what the TD has chosen to do is OK. Would I like a shot to play for a USDGC spot...I have it...I just have to play Pro Open...as do all of you. I would like for all you guys to show up and play, but if you can't get past the TD's decision, please just be quiet, it's not going to change anything for this SN championship. It will be a Great Championship with or without you, preferably the latter if you will be complaining all the time.


Thanks

Ernie Rodriguez
Dean, we will abide by the refund policy of DiscGolfUnited. That is up to the TD's discretion. Here is the refund policy: Online registration closes August 23rd. If you have registered online before that date and cancel by August 17th you will receive your entry fee back minus a $10 handling fee per Disc Golf United. If you cancel by August 23rd you will receive the tournament players pack for your division. If you cancel after August 23rd you will receive the players pack for your division if available. After August 23rd your entry fee will be added to the payout for your division. There will be no monetary refund after August 17th.
Flyerbud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ok... I have contacted my attorney ... gave him
> the facts..... he said he will check it out!!!!
> 3putt, you will need some representation and no, I
> am not joking....

So this is what its come to: a clearly stated intention to sue the Tournament Director. Anyone who may be considering stepping up to TD a Southern Nationals championship event should carefully consider what you are risking by volunteering to promote a recreational activity.

Gary Wagoner
I want to start out by saying I don't have a dog in the race as far as all of this fuss is concerned. I'm a first year advanced female player. I do feel like if you want a shot at the USDGC , you should play pro open. Ergo, I agree with the TD. Bringing a lawyer into it when the rules are clearly stated in black and white seems far fetched. I am really looking forward to this tournament, even if I do get the brakes beat off of me. I hope to see everyone out there :)
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