let's add some fuel to this fire because this would be a great way to expand the SN....instead of teams of all pros, etc. I personally believe that most open players could get over thier ego issues and choose a player from each division to be on their team. Then a scramble format just like ball golf could be developed for these specific tournaments in which, for example, a pro, a female pro, a pro master and an advanced/am player would make up each team. The city v. city concept(or course v. course) could still be evident and the standings of SN would determine the division from which a player could be chosen. To me this would not only offer variety, but would also be a specific and complete way to keep all parties involved to no particular division's detriment. Just a thought, but I like where the concepts are pointing. griff
Hey those of us in Columbus/Starkville MS are all about this one. Our biggest problem is that we really don't have the pro caliber players here to fill the team. Who am I kiding, we don't have ANY pro players at Lake Lowndes (Rivers used to play here some I think but not for a while now.) So if any Pro's need a kick butt set of Am's (we got Am men/Am Adv/ and Am Wom covered) Lake Lowndes SP is your place.
Don't leave Florence, Ala., out either! We have the Ams, women, advanced AND advanced Master, a lot of them! Can't speak for the other golfers here, but I'll talk it up at the course. Could the teams compete during tournaments if enough show up? You could combine the scores of each team since they will be playing the same tees and pin positions. Just a thought. Let's keep it going. Russ C>
i am very open minded as to the format, where it would take place, etc...
i think it would be wise to set a date sometime in the future, talk it up, come up with a format so all cities would have an opportunity to develop a team.
i will volunteer to create a web page that spells out the rules or format or whatever...
as far as when-- maybe this coming spring? the more lead time the better, promotionally speaking...
i am guessing, as i mentioned, that some cities (like mobile, baton rouge, lafayette) could actually come up with more than one team due to the high # of golfers. to me that seems fine...
another thing, what if a city has no pro women... there needs to be some sort of trade off... in other words not all teams may end up with the exact same makeup of players... just a thought...
if we develop a fair way of setting up teams-- due to some cities not having pro women, etc... some sort of variable that still ends up close to the same skill level...
i think everyone is open minded enough to come up with some kind of happy medium...
another thought... since hattiesburg is pretty darn close to the physical center of the SN range (more or less) perhaps that would be a good place to host the first SN team event... especially with the bunkhouses... cost effective is a good thing...
one or two day? (i am a two day event fool!! i really like 2dayers-- but i am open minded in case that is not how it ends up...)
i apologize if this is too long, but his is the most info i could find on how them there texicans run their team event... and it looks like the concept has been going on in So California for a long time...
anyway, for those who have the inclination, here is a post by John Houck from the PDGA forum. I am steppin' all over copyrights by doing this, but hopefully JH will not mind. JH was responding to folks who asked him about how the Texas Team Championships (TTC) works...
It may give us some mo' betta ideas.
By John Houck on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 07:57 am:
Gary, here's something I wrote up for DGWN. It never ran, probably because I sent it in too late.
With 215 players, the second annual Texas Team Championships at Circle R became the biggest tournament in Texas for 2001. Twenty-five teams competed for fun and pride over the weekend of December 1-2. Brutally cold weather (for Texas, anyway) passed through a few days earlier, but by Saturday we were back in the high 60's. An unexpected rain Saturday night turned Sunday into a mudfest, but the golfers carried on (with just a few exceptions).
As was the case last year, many players declared the TTC their favorite event of the year. It seems like the team concept has really caught on in Texas. The format is fairly simple: each course in the state is invited to send a team. Individual schools or businesses can also send teams, as can cities without a course (that almost happened this year). Some courses even sent two teams.
We took some tips from existing team tournaments, including the granddaddy of team events: the Southwestern Team Invitational held in San Diego for the last 20 years. But we knew we'd have to make rosters that reflected the mix of players here in Texas. We knew, for example, that we couldn't ask each team to bring a Pro Woman, since there are only 5-6 active in the state now. We also realized that some newer or smaller towns couldn't send any pros at all. So we wound up making two divisions: the Established division for courses that have been around a while and have pro players, and the Emerging division for up-and-coming towns.
We finally decided that Established teams would have 9 players each: 2 Open Pro, 1 Pro Master, 2 Advanced, 2 Intermediate, 1 Amateur Woman (Novice, Intermediate, or Advanced), and one "swing" player (Pro Woman or Pro Grand Master or Advanced Master). Emerging teams send 6 amateur players: 3 Advanced and 3 Intermediate.
The tournament is primarily match play, where two players go head-to-head for 9 holes (this is the same format used at the World Games this year). So when team A plays teams team B, A's #1 Pro goes against B's #1 Pro. A's #2 Pro goes against B's #2 pro, etc. The team who wins the most head-to-head matches wins that round. Each team plays 3 or four matches on Saturday, and teams who win their pool advance.
In order to add strategy and fun, and to give teams who didn't win their pool a second chance to advance, we came up with an extra round Sunday morning. Named after a massive mega-cloverleaf traffic structure in Dallas, the Mixmaster involves three simultaneous formats. Each team sends three players to play Alternating Shot on one course, three players to play Alternating shot on a second course, and three players to play Best Shot on a third course. So each team has three scores added together to get a total score.
The Mixmaster forces teams to try to find the best way to split up their players. Do you put your best player and your worst player together in Best Shot? Do you try to make three even teams? It's tough call. (Teams who won their pool Saturday and Emerging teams are exempt from the Mixmaster.)
One of the goals of the TTC is to attract players who might not otherwise travel to tournaments. Last year Paris, Texas sent a team of 6 players, only one of whom had ever even seen a course outside of their home town. And this year we had 20 amateur women in the same place at the same time, an achievement we're especially proud of.
The TTC has no cash payouts for pros and no prizes for amateurs. We try to take care of the players with a very nice player package, but the bottom line is fun and team pride. Judging by the turnout, players are enjoying the unique format and the chance to be part of a team, something disc golfers don't get too often. This year's champions, Lewisville and Lubbock, are already making their plans for next year. Meanwhile, we're trying to find a bigger place to host the 2002 event.
Great idea vl, one that promises to be lots of fun. I thought of a "prize" to go along with the bragging rights that are awarded to the winning team. Perhaps a large outdoor banner could be made that says something to the effect of "Southern National Team Champions."
The winning team gets the banner for the full year to display at all of their home tournaments. They bring the banner to the next SN Team Championship. The new winner gets the banner and the bragging rights to take home for the next year.
i like this ideal to. maybe smaller teams to get it started.
1-advance or am master
1 women pro or am
sometimes it is hard to get players to get off on the same weekend. so this will need to be planned way ahead of time and the same weekend every year.
also the banner ideal was great, maybe setting some award money to the side and give them team collard champion shirts that only winners can wear.
once again who will take this and run with it .thanks for these great ideals , jim
Sorry go go off thread, again, but Jim, I need some info on how I can make the SFC Ice Bowl a Southern Nationals qualifier! Please e-mail me some info so I can start advertising this event. Thanks, Russ Corey.
I say forget the banner. If you are only going to make one anyway, you could get a nice trophy. There is only one Stanley Cup, and they pass it around every year. Heck, the winning team could even pitch in and get their team name inscribed on the base every year. When the base is full, you add another, just like Lord Stanley's. Eventually it could be five or six feet tall as well. It will be important to remember that you are disc golfers and not hockey players, however, so be careful when you lift that thing up over your head.
I initially thought of a trophy to go to the winning team, ala the Stanley Cup. Then I figured the team members would start fighting over who would get to keep the trophy at home. Discord would set it, and the team wouldn't be able to function well. They'd hate each other by the time the next Team Championship came around. They wouldn't be able to function as a team, and wouldn't be able to successfully defend their title. A new team would win...
Come to think of it, a trophy is a good idea! =8)
Seriously, I like the simple idea of a banner to proudly display team pride at home tourneys. (But then, I'm biased. =8) The winning team could write their name and year on the back of the banner with a sharpie, keeping with true disc golf spirit.
banners and trophies seem kind of like icing on a cake.
i think the "team" idea sounds fun and that is the main point.
Jimo, is correct-- that we would need to promote this concept for a while to make it viable.
if we would set a date in 2003 and promote it for months i think that we could get folks involved... and i also agree with Jimo that the teams would have to reflect reality... and be smaller than what them there texicans teams have each year at their events.
it seems that hattiesburg, as i mentioned, might be a good place to hold the first one because it is in the "middle" of the SN region-- although to make it fair it seems the event should move around each year, so no one team has home court advantage each season.
as far as what the zinger asks... who will run it?... that is a darn good question.
maybe the "teams" could step up an run the event where it is being hosted... for running an event is an experience in itself, and it tends to "open eyes" about how much work it takes.-- but as always it is volunteers that make it all happen and this "team event" concept would be no different, i would imagine.
i've helped joey van duzee and toad to start new annual events and have volunteered at AM worlds and Pro Worlds as a grunt, and have some experience at helping at events & would be more than willing to volunteer to help out for this type event.
paul b in hattiesburg wold be a central location ,mobile could send 4-6 teams , maybe more , the home team should host the event since they could get sponsors. hosting needs to go to a town that can get sponsors.so if you want it you need to find local sponsors. jim
On that same subject, we up here in north Alabama land have a shortage of pro men. We're actually Advanced Master heavy, so be sure that some of us can play, too :>)
We have a few Am women and plenty of am and advanced me. We do have a master player, but only one. But I can't really say that we could get enough people to travel to Hattiesburg. But go for it anyway, RWC
Maybe I should rephrase that, VL. We have one master who will play pro when that's the option. We used to have more pros back in the old days, but many, including myself, have wandered back into the Advanced Master division because we, and others in that division elsewhere in the region, are fairly even in skill. Plus, it's cheaper and I got tired of contributing to the pro purse. This division is more fun and I feel like I'm more competitive.
Now if ol' Jack White moves back to the area, we'll have two pros. Of course, Jack plays master, too. You out there Jack?
I suppose we could borrow an old pro from Huntsville. There's a bunch of 'em over there. Russ. C
vl, not sure I get your point. I'd reckon that if the format has been successful in southern California for many years, and Texicans have successfully adopted the idea, maybe the SN's first foray into team championships should follow a similar format. The Team Championship could then be tweaked after we get some collective experience under our belt.
We should probably talk directly with some of the Texas folks to learn some of the details. I'm going to go try to play in some of the C tier events in Houston in January, and can talk to some of them then.