AND competition.

The reason is because that isn't a side step... we agree they would be competitive in INT Men so that means that Pro Women = INT Men as far as side stepping goes.

The point of the 3/5ths thing was that just because is a rule doesn't mean it's well written or thought out and doesn't mean it should ALWAYS be law and never revised.

I feel that you are very much discouraging women from playing and isolating them or causing them to say F' it I'll just stay an Am and bag and be done with it. Shouldn't we be doing all we can to encourage women to start playing? What you are suggesting isn't it.

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Why can't the PRO women play in the SN PRO Championship?

Why do they need to compete with Ams, male or female?

I suppose if they fail to cash in six months (until the new FOUR tournament rule/guideline kicks in) they could play Am like anyone else, but if they've cashed in PRO under the current rules, I don't think they should be allowed to play. just sayin'

BTW, how many PRO women were wanting to asking about this?

rWc3523

I know of two pro women personally and I know of some Am Women that support this (they are potential future pro women). I am pretty sure all the pro master ladies (5+) I know would also support this cause.

The reason is that they often have ONE person divisions... two at best.

Stacey has paid $40 bucks to play Pro Women and received $35 in winnings when no one else showed up. She basically paid $5 bucks for her plaque and 2 points. This has happened several times.

With the way Women are often looked over so often maybe we should actually work towards taking care of them for once.

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So I'll ask again, if only one PRO MASTER shows up, can he play ADV? Or lets say only one Senior Grand Master, for surely a Senior Grand Master can't compete in OPEN, is he allowed to play ADV or INT even though he might of received cash money the previous week at a tournament in his division? Nobody makes women play in women divisions (although it's a given that women would want to), it's just another protected division like senior grand master. Is there a woman novice division, or are they forced to play with the men in the Novice division? What about junior (and i'm not talking about pdga, just sn)

Terry Zeringue

My point is that they should be able to play in whatever division they can compete in.(women) I know this is a double standard, but so what. We need women to start playing more in SN land. They just dont do it.

If a Pro woman wants to play in the SNAC she will have had to play in the division she wants to compete in at the Snac is at least one other tournament. That is our only requirement. LET IT BE TERRY. We get your point and see where you are coming from, but you are not thinking for the good of the sport. Plus the SN is not exactly stringent on our rules are we.....why make a stand on this one?

"HOGMAN"
HyZer Nation

bigal5657 Wrote:
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>.....why make a stand on this
> one?


Why Not? The pDGA has aways been the rules we have followed, they allow Masters players to jump to where ever they wany based on there rating. Why should the SN be any different. I can not wait to get my new basket this year in Memphis ;o]~~~

Maybe we SHOULD look at revising the rules and allowing Age be a factor.

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Following the rules and making everyone (age, women, men, race) equal is not doing good for the sport???? But telling me to let it rest (when all i'm doing is responding to posts) and changing rules without the opinion of the sn players is???? Lol, y'all are just what the SN needs.

Still never said anything about Senior Grandmaster, why single them out??? Do we want the older generation to stop attending tournaments because they can't play in a division in which they can compete in if other Senior Grandmasters don't show up? If you do for one, you must do for all. I would be opposed if the rule was changed, but it would have to be changed for all divisions in which a "slide over" in the professional ranks will be above their skill level.

Terry Zeringue

OK. I have been told that the only divisions that can have a single player are the Pro divisions. Is that correct?

Now Terry I understand you are a rule stickler......you know I am too, but what can we do to get more women out there playing disc golf and mainly KEEP the ones we already have? My wife will play no matter what, but that is how she is. Im sure stacey is the same way, but some girls do not want to feel singled out and if they are in a one person division it normally does that. GM's are in the same boat. I say let them move latterly also, but we must establish what is a lateral move.

"HOGMAN"
HyZer Nation

TheZinger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Following the rules and making everyone (age,
> women, men, race) equal is not doing good for the
> sport???? But telling me to let it rest (when
> all i'm doing is responding to posts) and changing
> rules without the opinion of the sn players is????
> Lol, y'all are just what the SN needs.
>
> Still never said anything about Senior
> Grandmaster, why single them out??? Do we want
> the older generation to stop attending tournaments
> because they can't play in a division in which
> they can compete in if other Senior Grandmasters
> don't show up? If you do for one, you must do for
> all. I would be opposed if the rule was changed,
> but it would have to be changed for all divisions
> in which a "slide over" in the professional ranks
> will be above their skill level.


Terry... DON'T say "y'all" and put words in my mouth and then ignore the fact that I DID address SGM.

I never said let it rest so don't lump us all together when one person uses some language that you don't like (though I'm sure it wasn't intended the way you are taking it). Furthermore, I DID address your issue.

You know, you have been making a lot of good points recently Terry... don't ruin that momentum.

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That is true... too early in the morning for me... SGM can play GM and be semi-competitive. Pro Women don't have that option.

And actually NO... Stacey probably will NOT sign up if she is the only Pro Women there and isn't allowed to play Int Men. So, basically she will be almost completely quitting tournament play. Very sad.

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Thru the years we have tried everything in mobile to get more women playing DISC GOLF. Nothing seems to work. I think it will be like most sports womwn will come as the sport grows.On low turn out events the pro women -master women might want to ask the grandmaster if they could play with them, but declare points in their division. what problems could we have.Let us think and discuss this out.
#1 first at each event the gm must all agree, it is their division.
#2 what if after the first round and there was 4 men and 1 women, and the women is in 4th place , does she stay with the top group or does she get bump to a another group. Most gm wants to play in their divion the second round.We were lucky when leslie use to play with the gm we never had that problem, but we warned her that she would be odd women out.
#3 Do not rush to a quick fix

WHAT DO YOU THINK LADIES

lol, Have you looked around at most Disc Golfers??? Some of them have not shaved or bathed in weeks. Some live in there cars and other golfers couches. Why in the world would Women want to play/hangout with any Disc Golfer. Other then Bluff, Jabba and myself that is ;o]


That was only a joke.


One word, "PROMOTION" get some more courses in Colleges and instead of playing with a buddy, bring a chick with ya. It can distract your competion as well ;o]





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2010 12:39PM by Tax Man.

The only problem I can see is that with the GM division they are playing for cash and might not like the possibility of a young women taking that money away. That is assuming she would be competitive and you are putting the GM in an odd position, they might feel like jerks if they said no... and it might be worse then if they were to play by themselves if they always lost their entry. Meaning, they won't have a desire to play still.

With INT Men it's plastic and so many participants it's less likely they would care if a women took their spot. I know I wouldn't.

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Well Gill, anybody can play int men unless a person has taken cash/prizes in a higher division,,, OPEN is the only division that is not protected at all. Don't know why i put that sentence in, i'm guessing i'm trying to say nobody in INT men should complain if a woman finishes in a cash spot because that division is open to anyone who qualifies to play in it. And sorry for putting the word y'all, that was my bad/fault. I'm not arguing, just debating. I'm not getting mad at all (well maybe except when someone tells me to "let it be" because i'm debating back and forth we posters lol).

Al, the biggest problem with the women is that there isn't that many woman playing tournaments (alot of woman play tournaments, just not many at the same tournaments). So you are correct in needing to try to get more women to play the sport of disc golf in every city, and for them to play tournaments. I love that Mobile started the Woman's only league (i don't know if they still do that, but it was a GREAT idea to start). First places to look are colleges, girls ultimate teams, girls soccer teams, etc (mainly female sport teams in which they don't mind getting dirty in the outdoors). The thing is, I wouldn't know how to get those girls into trying out disc golf (i know there's many ways, just don't kow the best).

Terry Zeringue

"Hey, so.. come here often" isn't probably the best approach. :p

It does us no good to get new female players if we lose the current ones... the current ones are tired of playing in a single person division to the point that they are talking about not playing tournaments any longer. That means when the next women steps up to play pro she will be also a single player division and eventually get tired of it and quit... cycle continues.

We should accommodate them and not worry so much about "it's goes against a rule that was setup without much forethought".

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We must aggressively go and get them. Must make sure they are on cards with good people and not douche bags( elbows on the table problem), even second round. And then make sure we spoil them when they come out. Think about how many guys play highland just for fun and never play tourneys. It is 10x that bad with women. Also some guys use disc golf to get away from their wives/girlfriends. That is crap!!!! Bring them and let someone else show them the game.

"HOGMAN"
HyZer Nation

I have always felt as though there should always be a women's division offered in pro and am women at every tournament, no matter the number of turnouts. It will only set the women's division back if it is not at least offered. I agree it can be discouraging to play against yourself, but my perspective is that the numbers are growning. When I first began I played by myself frequently, but got placed in groups with men. Which I then told myself I was competing with them as competition. I can only speak for myself, but I try to go to tournaments that have great payout for women, even when they are only one. I have played many tournaments, that I played alone, and doubled my money. I never intended on playing alone, but no one else came. In the last couple of years though, I have not played one tournament alone. The pro women division has ranged from 2-9.

Now on the pro women playing am men. I feel like if there is only one women they should have a choice, but I also feel they should still earn pro women points. That's where the situation gets sticky. Then it is like what I have done in the past.....played in the pro women division alone, but grouped with am or pro master men.

I feel that if tournaments had incentives for women to play such as....higher payouts despite the lower numbers in their division...then more women would play. I know that it is hard at ice bowls, but the two day tournaments should definitely consider incentives.

I hate to call out names, and I'm sure I am missing someone....but Mathew Gardner prides himself on higher payout for ladies....which encourages me to travel to his tournaments, despite the possible tournout. Last year Meghan Ford won $250 for a one day, and it was only us two. Now that is a very extreme example, but it's a start.

Just my 2 cents. I hope it helps give just one of many pro women's opinions.

Oh..and Tax Man....I have played with some smelly ladies too, of course none of the SN ladies ;) J/K

We definitely have NO intentions of suggesting NOT offering ladies their division. Pro and Am.

We just want to offer options for if they WANT to play with the guys vs playing by themselves.

Sounds like you ladies get treated fairly well up there... Stacey has not always been so lucky, as I've said... she has gotten $5 LESS than her entry at several tournaments when she was the lone woman.

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Leslie made some very good points. I have been the lonesome dove on occasion, but each time I have been treated very well. In fact I just got back from 3 days of golfing in Jackson and I could not have been treated better. 6 rounds of golf as the only female. I played with Masters, Ams and Pros. I took it as an opportunity to improve my game and try some new techniques. I find that when I am playing with the guys, I play much more serious. One of the other things that happened over the weekend was several guys asked me what it would take to get more women playing. There is no simple answer to that, but I did make some suggestions.

#1 Make sure there are bathrooms open at the course. This is very important to us.
#2 Consider handicap leagues. Baton Rouge does a great job of this.
#3 When you invite women to play doubles - mean it. Don't moan when you end up on our team. Some leagues offer a 2 or 3 stroke advantage for getting a woman on their team. That will remove the "guilt" that some of you mentioned as the main reason that your wives and girlfriends won't play. Doubles is a great way to learn the game in a mostly stressfree environment and who knows, you might just keep them coming back.
#4 Run some mixed doubles events. Keep it best shot and keep the entry fee low. (For the record, in ball golf when you play a mixed event the ladies still hit from the ladies tees.)
#5 Don't be offensive to women.
#6 Incentives are great. Nice players packs for the Women (No matter what division they play in). You don't have to spend a lot of money. I'd be happy to make suggestions if you need any help. ;)

It's nice to see so many of you chiming in on this topic. As far as the Division issue, I'm a firm believer in playing the Women's divisions. I would much rather see you work towards getting more women to play than finding ways for us to fit into the Men's divisions. I have really seen a lot of effort this year towards that goal and I for one appreciate it. Good luck!

Lynn

Great info Lynn.. just in case there is any confusion we aren't looking to eliminate the womens division at all... just allow you guys to move over to a mens division if YOU CHOOSE. Nothing would be forced. I know this is how Stacey (and I think Snap) would prefer it because they both get tired of playing by themselves tournament after tournament.

Also along the lines of topic #1... make sure if your course does not pass by the bathrooms often (say only once)... make sure you put them starting off about half way through the course as opposed to right by the bathrooms where they only have ONE chance to go before the round starts!

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A few years back, we had a rule in Florida. If a player wins 3 times in a season, he moves up. Everyone knew it and did it.

I like it... then you try out the next division for 4 tournaments and if you can't cut it then you can make your decision then if you want to move back down or keep trying to better yourself in the current division.

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I am going to run a mixed doubles tournament here in Mobile. Just not sure when.

southern33 Wrote:
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> A few years back, we had a rule in Florida. If a
> player wins 3 times in a season, he moves up.
> Everyone knew it and did it.

I seem to recall that rule. Battlefield promotion ;o]

FWIW, I am NOT an open player

But I played 4 Advanced tourneys in the last 2008-2009 and had three top 3 finishes. I figured I would get better playing Open on my home course.

Also, I want BR to have good sized open fields as to attract more open players....call me generous that way.

But apparently BR only has one ADV player so maybe everything I just wrote is false.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2010 10:01AM by Ian.

Bolty-Bolt Wrote:
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> I am going to run a mixed doubles tournament here
> in Mobile. Just not sure when.


Great!!!!!

_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Justin Tolbert
BHS Disc Golf [www.youtube.com]
Mobile, Alabama

And you wonder why there aren't any woman coming to the tourney's. We only have three from the port of Shreves that somewhat actively play.They don't choose to compete with the men here. They put in their entry fee get the first place trophy in their division and get their money back with a chance to get an ace and play this truly awesome and amazing sport. The only thing that sucks is no competitive spirit which is why we as men play. This does not give them the motivation to get better and move up or even want to continue to play. I think the rule should be changed. I think we should be able to create an across the board rating system in the "Southern Nation" based on average score (per division) in a tourney then compare the mens with the womans scores. Yeah the mens baggers scores might interfere but it would be a start. There is an answer to this problem. This shouldn't be that big of a deal. Hope you guys aren't ashamed of being beaten by a woman. It is just a game that we are supposed to enjoy.

Sneaky D

I remember back in the late 80's S'port had about 10 ladies playing back then.

___________________________________________________________________________
Keith "Sunshine" B

Sorry I started in the late 90's and don't remember any woman from here then.