Baton Rouge : I'm guestimating about 15 - 20 tags for our area.

This is just to get a good rough estimate of howmany tags we need to make.

I also would like suggestions on how much we should charge for them.
Thanks Again, WBT

Little Rock: 20-30 tags

ditto for Memphis--at least 30...

I stayed up pretty late last night going over ways to do the challenge (to make it fair and work) but the big question is how much $ should they be for each tag?

I had figured that if we charge $15 and sold at least 300 tags, that at the end of the year tourney's (Pro and Am SNDGC's) the top say 25 numbers will be playing for extra prizes (Am) and cash (Pro).

Since there will only be one set of numbers, the top am # might be 25, but they are the #1 seed in the Am SN chps, and so on. Then the top (say)10 numbers will be awarded with new tag declaring them the top Am bag tag champ of 2003, and win - well - why not a basket? @nd place could be one of those new "portable" baskets; 3rd a mini basket; 4th lrg bag w/CE disc; 5th med bag w/ CE disc. 6-10 will just get new tags, maybe more?

Pro will be the same way but with the to tag holder getting a new tag, proclaiming him the BTC champ of 2003, and say @ $200. Then going down the line in $50 increments for the top 5.

This will still leave @ $2000 left to go to the pro purses.


let me know how this is sounding, give me alternatives, what ever, and please keep giving estimates. The first citys to respond may get to have a really low number!


Peace,

Willy "Bag Tag"

In my opinion Bag Tag should be for fun. No prizes at the end of the year for who has the lowest tag. Too hard to keep up with. All money raised should just go to the end of the year Tournaments.

Say the low number got sent to Memphis, to a guy who didnt play a lot of Tournaments but defended it against Memphis people. How fair is that to Louisiana or Mobile etc.

Who is going to keep up with how many times 1st thru 5th is defending? Nah...too hard. Making this too hard. Other Bag Tag deals that are successful arent being played over 6 or 7 states.

Brad

hmmm... tough call.

will's ideas sound good but there are more logistics involved with keeping up with the "system" he proposes... but it would be worth it-- it seems.

brad's ideas make sense too... just simply dividing up the money over ALL divisions so everyone benefits.

simple seems like the good solution for the first SN BTC season.

let JimO make the call?

the main point is the SN BTC is a great idea :) and can easily raise more sponsorship $ than ever before.

keep stirring the pot!!

maybe, under will's proposal the 2grand could go toward a new course in the low # city... ??

i would almost have to say make it a state thing. each state has it's own bag tag. but if a louisiana guy wants a Miss. tag, then he can purchase it. The SN has way too many cities to 1)divide the numbers, 2)realistically be able to compete for the low numbers

It will be much easier to travel within the state to compete

The way I see it, the primary function of bag tags is to raise funds for the Southern Nationals. Each year, a new set of tags could be issued. At the end of the season, hang your tag on the wall and get your new tag for the next season. Begin fresh. Which makes me think that each set if tags should have the number on one side and the year on the other side. Collect them all! =8)

For each year, the money would be divided among of the following three categories:

1) Enhance the Pro purse for the SN Pro championships

2) Enhance the Am prizes for the SN Am championships (e.g., baskets. No bags, we all have bags. =8)

3) Enhancements for the courses hosting the Pro and Am events. This could include new (replacement or additional) teepads, signs, bulletin boards, new (replacement or additional) baskets, etc. Or, apply the money toward establishing a new course.

The amount to go to each of the above would have to be figured out but it could be an established percentage going to each category. As the championships rotate around the region, all of the courses would ultimately benefit.

After that, everything else is gravy. How tags are distributed and won is secondary. For example, allocate a certain number of tags to each city for the TD to sell at tourneys. Assume 10 TDs are given tags to sell. The first TD would get tags 1, 11, 21, etc. The next TD would get 2, 12, 22, etc. Tags could also be purchased directly from SkySouth.

Tags will tend to remain in their city of origin but some will traverse as people travel to larger events. It doesn't matter, because the goal is to raise funds, not acquire the absolute lowest number. Award no prizes for the tags themselves, but use the money instead to improve the SNDG experience as a whole.

For tournament play, go with the simple Texas plan. Tags together on a card are automatically on. Other challenges are optional. VL has posted some of the details. I think that simple is best, particularly early on. As the SN Bag Tag challenge develops and grows, other options could be explored. But keep it simple to begin with.

Again, I think the goal is to raise funds for the SN and everything else is secondary. I'd proudly buy tag #200 for $15-20, then await my chance to dump it on some chump (I mean worthy opponent). I may never get to lower my tag number but the SN still benefits.

I'll buy one either way, but I can't speak for the other 15-20 or so golfers here in Florence.

I can see the problem in keeping track of a multi-state challenge.

I had considered proposing one for our club as a way to raise some money or an incentive to join the club (and pay dues.)

We would have the same problem on this end of the state (northern) as you would down there if a Memphis guy got the #1 tag.

How about we split it into two divisions, northern and southern. Between Huntsville (if they participate in SNDG) and Memphis along and just off of US 72, there are at least a dozen SNDG events within three hours of Florence. Myself and most of the golfers here will likely get no further south than Tupelo or Columbus in the coming year, I'd wager. (That does not include Hattiesburg, because I intend on being in that one!)

We could have a Northern division bag tag challenge where most of the participants would have numerous opportunities to compete against each other.

I may be speaking out of turn for the Miss. guys, because they might travel south more than we do.

Just tossing another wrench in the works. Either way, I'll ask the club if they want to participate and try to get a number of how many tags we'd need.

If everyone here participated, it would only be 15-20, but that's an additional $225-$300 for the cause if tags sell for $15. Personally, I was thinking of selling them for $10 around here. Just my 2-cents. Russ. C

I agree that the reason for the BTC is to raise $ for the SN championship tournys, but I was figuring that with the extra added incentive of wanting one of the lowest tag would increase the amount of people attending tournaments.

Then the extra prizes at the SNDG chps and new tags will also increase numbers of particapants.

but if we want to keep it simple, all the $ would go to the payouts of the SNDG chps

goby makes some really good points.

after a year or so of establishing the SNBTC and getting more and more folks involved, the sky is the limit as far as other aspects added to how it works...

i think that promoting it as a fundraiser will be important to the success as opposed to promoting the prizes someone might win.

folks are willing to help Jimo's years of efforts in developing a really fun series... focus on that to get it started... that would seem to be the best way to promote it initially. (Want to help out with sponsoring the SN FINALS-- Buy a Bag Tag)

after a year-- and an established budget, regional tags might be a option that could be considered... but how that would work seems more complicated. (if folks want to put a small sticker on the back from the state they are from after they purchase the tag-- maybe that is an easy way to use them regionally without the added expense of "printed regional tags")

thanks again to willyBT for taking time to run with this SNBTC idea.

I love the idea of the bag tag challenge. I think it would be a really easy way to raise a lot of money for the SNC, plus maybe give people a little more incentive to attend tournaments. (for the bragging rights of having a lower number) I like the idea of all the money going toward the payout at the SNC. At least for the first year, just to get this thing off the ground. This way when people hear that $1000 is being added to their division's (am/pro) payout, everyone will run to the SNC no matter where they are being held to get their share of the pie. I think this could really bolster the turnouts at the season finale. Also, (my opinion) I think that for this first year we shouldn't try breaking up into regions, because this could make it much harder to keep up with. Also I think that this would encourage more people to travel to different courses on ordinary (non tournament) weekends. To go to a course that you don't play much and challenge the local golfers for their bag tags. We could start a contact list of at least one person from each course in the SNDG region that could be responsible for letting other people know when a group of golfers were coming in from out of town for a bag tag challenge. That way a local club can say "hey lets call up The Zinger this weekend and see if the Baton Rouge crew wants to accept some challenges" I think this could get really fun!!! This could also help people from different towns to get to know one another on a more personal basis, because we all know at tournaments we don't let ourselves get too personal with our competition. This way there is no pressure from a tournament, and we can just be ourselves. This could really bring the SNDG community together as a whole. While just playing a fun bag tag challenge, we could feel like we are all working together as one to make the Southern Nationals be the best that it can!!!

Another Idea:


The lowest tag would be for bragging rights only. Every one that shows up at their respective SN championship with a tag would be competing for the tag $. Therefore if someone decided to just sit on a really low number, it still wouldn't give him an advantage going into the championship itself.

I still feel that a certian percentage of the money collected in each div (AM /Pro) should be paid out the highest placed finishers that own a tag.
The rest would go to enhance the payout of all the divisions of each tournament.

But please keep the ideas flowing, this is the way to get things done.


PS : I'm also looking for a logo for the tag.

Thanks

Willy BTc

i am not sure what the manufacturers of plastic tags can get away with-- graphically speaking.. the ones i have, and have seen are engraved.

anyway, here is an rough draft idea for a logo...

[ldga.bravepages.com]

(the # is for example only... that black circle area above the basket could be left blank and the tag manufacturer could engrave the #'s there?)

if folks will suggest what they'd like to see i can create just about any graphic.

i know the BR folks are aardvarks... does the SN have a mascot animal?
(goby will want a fish :^p)


looking for ideas... i'll create whatever graphic you folks want.

(btw, the other bag tag challenges around the US have different color tags. for instance the Zboaz tags, every ten tags are a different color-- or maybe it is every twenty?)

Just adding a few follow-up opinions.

State/Regional Tags: I think this increases the initial difficulty of implementing the BTC, plus it could turn into a state/regional fundraiser rather than a fundraiser for the SN as a whole. Folks buying AL state tags may not want their money to go to Hattiesburg or Baton Rouge for SN prizes. Also, I don't believe that it's necessarily easier to travel in-state than out-of-state. From Baton Rouge, I can get to Waveland, Gautier and Mobile quicker than I can to Shreveport or Monroe. I could lose a tag in Waveland, which may then get transferred to Mobile. The tag may then travel up to Hattiesburg, then up to Tupelo, east to Florence, back west to Tishomingo, Holly Springs, Bud Hill, down to Jackson, across to Monroe, then Shreveport, and down to Lafayette, where I finally win the tag back (assuming my game really improves while the tag is on this sojourn) and bring it to Baton Rouge. All of these towns are within a few hours of each other, spanning state or regional lines. I do agree that most players will tend to stay close to home, but you never know who will win a tag and to where that player may subsequently travel.

Incentive to Win Lowest Tag: I agree that trying to increase the attendance at SN events is an admirable goal. I'm not convinced that people will travel to SN tourneys to win the lowest tag unless they were already planning on attending the tourney anyway. Economic factors and the size of the tourney will probably still play a larger role in that decision. Also, I think an incentive already exists, at least to some extent, in the Points System that is already in place. How many folks travel to more distant or larger tourneys with the hopes of increasing their points total? (I am doing just that, with the hopes of finishing in the top three for Am Master, but I have to do this by quantity of tourneys 'cause my quality of play isn't getting me too many points. =8) If folks are playing lots of tourneys to increase their points, then the added bonus of winning a lower tag number may indeed increase the incentive to travel. However, if folks are mainly going to local tourneys to play and aren't concerned with points, then it seems unlikely to me that a low BT number will change that.

Bouncing of of HCSV's idea, though, travel as a group may be increased (either to tourneys or just for causal challenges) with the hope that the group as a whole brings home lower numbers than they started with. Severe bragging rights are earned when an out-of-town groups whoops butt on the locals' course and goes home with a batch of lower tag numbers.

Going back to the points, that may be a better way to award prizes, because that reflects play or attendance or both. Most points wins the booty. The money raised by the BTC could be used for those prizes, if desired, although I'm among those who'd rather see the money go to championship payout and host course improvements. With tags, there's more of a random factor, from how they are distributed to how they travel within and among courses.

These are just my thoughts on why I think it should be kept simple, at least to begin with. See how the BTC develops, and tweak as it grows. It may grow into something really cool, such as a combination annual BTC/Team Championship tourney. But simple first is my opinion. I'll buy a tag to support the SN, no matter how it finally develops.

And to echo dg'er, thanks Will for spearheading this!

Vic, the graphic looks pretty spiffy. Not sure how the chains would reproduce though.

Goby, I think you're right about keeping it simple the first year.
I was just adding more fuel to the fire with the north-south division thing.
Your idea that a tag might make the rounds so to speak from BR all the way up here and back is intrigueing and makes me feel a bit better about them being spread over several states.

Like you, I'll get one either way just to help out. I also like the idea of an equitable distribution of the tags initially to the various areas. If we lose them later on, that's our fault :>(

It's also good to hear from another Adv. Master. I hope to hit more events next year in hopes of moving up that ladder! I still think you guys in Lower Alabama, Miss. and La. have an advantage with all the events. Of course, there's no shortage of SNDG events up here either.

Hope to see ya' at Hattiesburg in Aug. or somewhere earlier. Russ C

well doug w. has ordered the first set of tags , we will get started as soon as they come in, we will mix them up and draw 15 to each city that wants them , when you sell them send the money to will in b.r. we ordered 100 and can order some more when the first 100 are gone. keep giving your ideals of how you think it should work. the main thing is raising money and pride . i think who ever shows up in br in september with the lowest #is that year pro champ in each division and the same for ams hattiesburg in august. that way we are all in one group.remember your city may be the next host and we will help you.i think we need to come up with a special prize for each winner. well go ace one for me and think about it ,jim

Jim has spoken! Will, put me down for one tag please. =8)

Count me in as well. I'll see if anyone else up this way is interested. Was there an agreement on price. $15? $10? Sounds like fun. RWC

I just wanted to say that the thread above that is listed under H.C.S.V. was actually typed by me. The opinions that I voiced in that discussion was my own and may differ from other Valet members. I just wanted to clear that up in case some of our other club members feel differently than I do. But back to the subject at hand, Hattiesburg will be needing about 15 tags. Thanks to Will and Doug W. for getting this thing off the ground. I think it is going to take off beautifully!!!!!!!

Where and when do I buy my tag. I think the price should be about $15 but no higher than $20 and I agree with the majority - keep it simple. Distribute the tags equitably to begin with and start playing. Some things to ponder... I don't like the idea of the winner of the tournament getting the lowest number and the runner up getting the second lowest number and so forth. I think the automatic challenge in a group at a tournament is the way to go. You want people to interact and get to know each other. You probably have to introduce yourself if you want to challenge someone, right. Can more than one person challenge at a time. Or is each challenge seperate. In my opinion I think simple ground rules need to be established.

Maybe..
1 - Challenges within a group at a tournament take president
2 - Challenges outside of the group are secondary
3 - The number of challengers can be from 2 to whatever as long as everyone involved in the challenge agrees
4 - Your group at a tournament can be involved in a challenge outside of your group but it has to be agreed upon by all participants

Anyway just one man's opinion. I'm looking forward to my tag and my first opportunity to defend it or take yours. Later

John K

Boy, I'd sure like to see what the tags look like, And Jim, 100 will not be near enough.
I'm setting the price at $15, When and how I get them has yet to be determined, but Goby, dg'r, ya'll will have the numbers "after" mine. Ha Ha!

I am curious to know how the numbers will be distributed. I hope ya'll are'nt going to just send them out in groups of ten or fifteen consecutive numbers. What I mean, is are the first town who gets sent numbers going to get (1-15) then the next town gets (16-30). Or are you going to split them up some how. The first town gets (1,16,31,46,61,etc..) and the next town gets (2,17,32,47,62,etc...). This way all the low numbers are not in one place. This could be the only fair way to do it, I think. Maybe we should have a good idea of how many are going to each town before we start to send them out?? That way they could be divided up equally. Just some thoughts.

That's why I wanted to know about how many to send to each city up front, so that say there were 20 citys that wanted tags (@10 each) then 1, 21, 41, etc... would go to onecity and so on.


But since 100 tags have already been made, and some may have been distributed already(?) who knows exactly how it will happen.


And Tony; what is the name of this thread? that is how I was planning on dividing them.

So far From what I can tell, 100 tags will not be enough, LR Ark saild @25, same for Memphis. BR @ 15 , Mobile Prob @40, and it goes on and on...

will, put me down for a tag. i want the highest tag # possible :^p
so i can do what goby suggested.

seriously, i do want a tag and will take whatever # is available once they are here...

in my opinion they should be handed out in the order in which they are bought... first come first serve... seems the most fair. (within a city)

let the bag tag challenge begin. whoohoo!

___________

here are the "rules" that every other bag tag challenge in the USofA utilizes...


Bag Tag Challenge Rules

1. Any tag number may challenge any other tag number.

2. You must display your tag where it can be easily seen.
Concealing your tag is not allowed. Tag must be present to accept a challenge.

3. It is mandatory to accept challenges on the card at any
organized tournament. This includes all weekly/mini
tournaments as well as one day or two day tournaments.
If there are two or more tags present it is on. It is not
mandatory to accept a challenge from another card,
unless there is no tag on the card to challenge, then
that player must accept any challenge from another card.

4. All challenges on the card supercede any challenge from
another card. Example, you may have a challenge with
your buddy who is on another card. You also have a
challenge going on your card. You have to settle with
your card first, then you can settle any other challenge
you may have.

5. You may refuse a challenge only during a casual round.


____________

Heh...I am telling you...I sure do believe it would be best if these Bag Tags were sold off the Skysouth website with first come first serve.

JMO
Brad

I'd have to agree about the first come first serve idea--to break it down by city or region will lead to grumblin'. Best to offer same to all and set a specific time/date etc. that orders will be accepted--none in advance and none by any special priority. Must be a SNDG player with a point in any division to purchase and only one tag per order per player will keep any one area from hoarding. griff

hey, i am up for buying them off the website.