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SNDG Championships - BR - news

Posted by Willy BTc 
SNDG Championships - BR - news
December 31, 2002 06:51PM
Hello from the desk of SSW.

For those that don't know me, my name is Will Timmons, and I will be your TD for the 2003 SNDG championships, held here in beautiful Baton Rouge Louisiana this year. Thanks to a "timely" move back to the Red Stick, I have been in the process of starting a new career, teaching pre-kindergarden, and trying to help get Disc Golf in BR bigger and better.

With Ronnie and Wanda Cook wanting to phase out of their 10 year commitment with the birth of their new child (congrats) I decided to be the spearheader of the area, since my last 3 1/2 years had been spent learning from Jim O in Mobile.

Well, there's plans for a new course, money for New tee pads and tee markers at both courses, and the 2003 SNDG Champs!!!

Now this is to be about the SNDG Champs. There are some big questions that have come about that need to be discussed.


It gives us the opportunity to get represenitives into the USDGC, and helps us get PDGA points, but it costs the TD over $600 at the Memphis tourney last year just for penalties and fees. That is $ that could go back to the pay out. Jim and I were discussing this, and we decided that we needed to take it to the people that it will affect the most.

We do need to make a decision in the next two weeks though, to be fair to the PDGA and the USDGC.

Feel free to E-Mail me if you want to discuss this with me one on one.

2) I'm working on the Host Hotel, but the weekend DOES conflict with a LSU home football game, so one may want to get a room early.
I'll post something on this as soon as I have something.

Greenwood Park does have FREE camping on the other side of hole 8 tucked into the woods. there is power and H2O hookup, and I will have the bathroom in good working order by then.

This is WAY TOO LONG, I probobly wouldn't read all that, but please let me or Jim O know what you think about not being a USDGC quallifier.

Thanks Ya'll,
Willy BTc

Oh yea - The bag tag thing is going great. Already over 100 tags have been bought, and all that money goes back into the SNDG Chps payouts.

Re: SNDG Championships - BR - news
December 31, 2002 07:26PM
A question on sponsors for the SNDG Championship. Will there be T-shirt sponsors and, if so, how much $$$ is required?

Not being a big tournament player, I won't comment on the PDGA/USDGC sanction, but putting it up on the forum is the way to go.
Re: SNDG Championships - BR - news
December 31, 2002 08:36PM
No way that the Southern National Championship should ever leave the PDGA nor the USDGC. The USDGC has become the biggest and best Tournament in the country. I think that the Southern National Championship should be proud to be a Qualifier. As far as I know, its the only B Tier Event in the country to be one.

I was proud to advertise the fact on the Memphis Disc Golf Website. It OPENED up people's eyes around the country TOO the Southern Nationals.

In my opinion, you would be shooting yourself in the foot by distancing yourself from the USDGC and the PDGA. It could only HURT the attendence and the prestige of the Southern Nationals. This is the BEST chance for Southern Disc Golfers to become qualified for THE LARGEST TOURNAMENT in the World. This is one of the biggest thing that makes the Southern Nationals legitimate.

Like it or not, the PDGA is the largest sanctioned Association in Disc Golf and always will be. There is absolutely no reason to cause trouble between the two different Associations...that being the Southern Nationals and the PDGA. The Southern Nationals will always be a Regional League. Hence the name.

To me its a no brainer. Keep the event a PDGA Event AND a Southern National Event AND a USDGC Qualifier.

Re: SNDG Championships - BR - news
December 31, 2002 09:23PM
Will, Yes to PDGA for the Southern Nationals. In fact, I'd like to see the SNDG Am Championship to also be a PDGA event (that's where I'm playing this year).

I'll definiteiy donate some "sponsorship" funds to the cause. I'll let you know how much later on. Also, if I can help in *any* way, please let me know.
Re: SNDG Championships - BR - news
January 01, 2003 10:45AM
maybe there is a way to raise the funds needed to send the PDGA from other sources? ... how about offering hole sponsorships that are targeted for covering the PDGA fees?
Re: SNDG Championships - BR - news
January 01, 2003 10:59AM
What kind of "penalties and fees" did the PDGA charge those in Memphis
that could have possibly amounted to $600.??? Maybe those "penalties and fees" would not apply this year. The masters age thing passes away this year does it not??? Anyway share some more info thanks.
SN Tag #4
Re: SNDG Championships - BR - news
January 01, 2003 11:15AM
The way I understand it, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, but all you have to do is send the PDGA $2 per player. Non-PDGA members must pay an additional $5, but that comes out of the individual players' pocket.

If the event had 150 (don't recall actual attendance) they would only have to give the PDGA $300, plus whatever the non-members had to contribute.

As far as "penalties," could they have been charged a fee for getting the event sanctioned so late? What else could it have been.

And BTW, both SNDG championships should be PDGA sanctioned. We're losing certain players here in NW ALA because of the SNDG only events. I think our major March event will be both SNDG and PDGA tournaments to attract those hardcore PDGA players still in the region :^) RwC
Of the 150 people, say 100 are not PDGA members. $5 X 100 = $500 on top of the $2 X 150 = 300. There is $800 dollars to go to the payout. Then there are fees to pay to be a "B" teir event, I don't know the exact numbers, but it adds up.

There is still one more year to go on the "masters controversy", but that doesn't help matters, but it also doesn't really matter until a PDGA member gets upset when a SN Masters player that is not old enough to play PDGA masters kicks his butt.

My opionion,
Will T
Re: SNDG Championships - BR - news
January 01, 2003 02:44PM
we spent $662 that was $50 to sign it up and $2 per person and $5 for each person that was not a member, so some players paid $7 , not very many players are pdga members i think will t. was the only person who went last year, that money that could of went to memphis and added to your purse. if anyone wants me to fax the fee we paid ,just send me a fax # . it is the last us open quilifier , i thought it would bring some big names to play in the snc but it has not. they have already quilified somewhere else.the reason we started the sn was to have a large tournament in the south each year. let all our great players meet and compete against each other. we use to run alot of pdga events and only a hand full would go to the worlds. so we started the snc where last year 270 players played for their snc. but on the other hand do we have players that could quilifie and go to the us open and repersent the sn. these are question we need to think about.thanks jim
Re: SNDG Championships - BR - news
January 01, 2003 05:34PM
Frankly, your PDGA Fee's should be built into the entry Fee and should be told ahead of time. If you normally charge $40 then charge $42 if your event is going to be PDGA. The extra $5 for not being a Member of the PDGA should be paid by the person entering the Tournament. If the Entry Fee is $40 then the person that is not a PDGA Member should pay $45. It shouldn't have had to be taken out of the Entry Fee.

I would think this was very easily solved. Everyone knows now that the Southern National Championship is a PDGA Event. Put it on your flyer and raise your entry fee to cover it.

$50 to sign it up sounds like very little money for the prestige you get from being a USDGC Qualifier.

Also, as far as big names. I think Wayne O' Brown, Brad Hammock and Eric Tracy are pretty big names and play all over the country. Probably some others in there I just don't recognize.

You say that you spent $662 but really only $50 of that was out of anyone's pocket and surely that was made up by Sponsor money.

Like I said, its simply a matter of building the $2 into the Entry Fee and plastering it everywhere you know that you are going to have to pay $5 extra if you arent a PDGA Member.

Keep the Event a USDGC Qualifier Jim!! :D

Re: SNDG Championships - BR - news
January 01, 2003 08:03PM
I don't understand the extra $5 for non PDGA members...

Can anybody explain what the "extra value" is for non-PDGA members or is it just a bribe to make you join? I guess that's legal in Canada, but his is the deep south...;-p
Re: SNDG Championships - BR - news
January 01, 2003 08:10PM
all three of those had already quilified, phillip raymond, scott davis , and rivers just to mention a few more that could go and play in the us open if they were able to play every day , yes adding the extra money could be done. it does not matter where it comes from it still goes out. the pdga will not let us super tour it unless everyone who plays in it is a pdga member. that is why it is a b teir. the problem with the worlds is you have to be able to take 8-10 days off to go . there is not many players that can do it money wise or time wise.if they would shorten that they would get more players able to go . that is why the us open is going to be stronger than the worlds due to a shorter tournament plus in the same place all the time. i want what is best for the sn players . jim
Re: SNDG Championships - BR - news
January 02, 2003 01:22PM
SNDG Am Championship should never be a pdga event. The only reason the Pro Championship is, is the USDGC. If an AM had to pay $5 extra for going for gold in the biggest SOUTHERN NATIONAL tournament just because of the PDGA thing, then I'll sit it out. If the Pros want a chance to qualify for the USDGC, keep it for them, but if not too many people care, then drop it.
Re: SNDG Championships - BR - news
January 02, 2003 01:55PM
When you put it that way, Zing, I think I can agree with you on the AM SNDG Championship. I still think the pro SNDG Champs should be PDGA sanctioned, as long as it's a USDGC qualifier.

As far as the PDGA, I renewed the first time in five or six years, just becuase I might be playing in three PDGA events this year, ours, Huntsville's and the Dec. 7 event in B'ham. IT would have cost me $15 extra for those three events, plus I get the magazine.

Everything up here within reasonable driving distance is SNDG, which is fine with me. They're run well, fun and more laid back than PDGA events. I do think SNDG events this year might be a little more focused on rules and activities that will reflect negatively on the sport, as well they should.

This can only enhance our reputation as an organization.

BTW, do you (and others here) see SNDG as complementing the PDGA, competing with the PDGA or as an alternative to the PDGA. Just curious. RwC
Re: SNDG Championships - BR - news
January 03, 2003 11:16AM
I'm back again, and just want to say that I have always felt that we were the "Nike" tour of Disc Golf. A sort of minor league that is regional, and gives disc golfers in the South a way to compete nearly every weekend in the sport we all love.

True, even though the "fee" is only $50, but that is no big deal. Sky South or Sky South West can cover that easily, but, again, why penalize non PDGA members, who only play SN events for THEIR tournament.

The whole point of the SN tour was to keep things regional, and to not have to send the PDGA $ for services that we are not able to take advantage of being way down here in the south.

All those names that you mentioned, are pros from this (or that) area, so they had also already played in a SN qualifier, and they had all already qualified elsewhere (Ithink) I still am pulled both ways, wanting it to be, and then not, so keep up the discussions and I'll check up again soon.

Willy BTc
Re: SNDG Championships - BR - news
January 03, 2003 12:07PM
This is my last comment on this issue before I shut up. I am NOT a Pro player but my eyes are open enough to know a good thing when I see it.

There were 17 Tournaments in the World last year that were Qualifiers for the USDGC. One of them was the Southern Nationals. There are litterly 1000's of Tournaments held in the World every year if you include PDGA, Southern Nationals and Local Non-Affliated Tournaments. I imagine that there are 100's of Tournaments that would give their left arm to be a Qulifier for the USDGC.

This is the Grand Daddy Tournament. This is the Tournament that is going to be the First Televised someday by a Network such as Fox Sports or ESPN or something. Maybe not this year but its coming. It has continued to grow every year and is only going up.

In my opinion. There is absolutely zero reason to shoot yourself in the foot by actually taking yourself off the list as a Qualifier. The Southern National Championship has grown in size every year. Memphis last year set records for Purse and was one of the largest PRO Tournaments in the country. I see no reason why Lousiana can't continue to grow it.

To take a step backwards like this would be a horrible decision. At the very least...the VERY least...having this Tournament listed as one of only 17 Tournaments in the Country that is a the Southern Nationals Tremendous publicity and actually legitimizes it as a League for not just the South but the whole country.

To take the Southern National Championship off the list MIGHT save you a couple of hundred dollars but in the long run in my opinion actually will lose you prestige and people and the almighty dollar. This past year the Tournament got GREAT publicity on the PDGA messege boards. It was one of the most talked about Tournaments on the boards.

If you take this Tournament out of the PDGA, I believe it would be a VERY short sighted thing to do. Plus it firmly puts us into a Renegade position as far as Disc Golf. It clearly would make us a competing League against the PDGA instead of something of being an alternative to the PDGA.

You would again be very short sighted in the fact of how many Southern National Players are also PDGA card holders.

Do you really think that interest from the Texas people will go up or down if you take the Championship out of the PDGA? I would think Louisiana would be advertising very hard to every PRO Texas person they can at this point that here is your chance to Qualify for the US well as play in a Louisana Southern National Tournament so they can actually get into the Southern National Championship. Don't forget the fact that you have to play in at least one event to play in the Southern Nationals. You would be losing SO MUCH marketing chances for your own Louisiana Tournaments as well as the Southern Nationals themselves.

Man talk about a vent. I am not getting on to Jim nor Will T. I am just very passionate about this issue mainly because Memphis was proud to have both the Southern National Championship as well as be able to advertise the fact that it was a U.S. Open Qualifier.

Re: SNDG Championships - BR - news
January 03, 2003 01:48PM
well said Will T. It is a tough call...but we should all consider ourselves a piece of the larger picture. We should do what we can to expose our sport to the largest number of participants as possible.

Our personal views of PDGA fees are important--but if it hampers the development of the sport we love, we should think carefully before taking positions adverse to the general betterment for all players(of whatever rank, class, etc.). In the past, I have personally expressed my PDGA displeasure, but I am willing to pay my $5 if it means the furtherance of a united front and betterment for all participants involved. Griff
I agree with griff, just my 2 cents.
Re: SNDG Championships - BR - news
January 03, 2003 09:27PM
I'd like to put in my 2 cents too, but not 5 friggin' dollars!

Some astute person in this forum asked what the extra $5 was for. Is it really a penalty for amateurs who don't belong to the PDGA. Frankly I do believe all the pros should join and support THEIR organization.

This may be a dumb question, but are the SNDG Pro Championships seperate from the SNDG Am Championships and, if so, can the Pro tourney be PDGA sanctioned and the Ams not?
Re: SNDG Championships - BR - news
January 04, 2003 04:03AM
misterbogey, the Pro and Am championships for the SN are separate events (Baton Rouge and Hattiesburg, respectively, this year). The Pro is currently also a PDGA event and USDGC Qualifier, and the Am is solely SN.
Jim, I think it's great that you would ask everyone for their opinion...but in the end it should be up to you---you are the one who has busted his ass for the disc golfers across the south and it's high time they respect your opinion.
But since you asked, I personally think it should be both PDGA and a USDGC qualifier. I would actually go to the USDGC if I qualified, just haven't shot well enough to do that yet. Yeah, $600 is a nice chunk of change, but I think it is money well spent, if only for the fact that disc golf needs a strong national organization. The PDGA is not only the World Championship, it is building a National Tour, it helps give the sport TV exposure, it has a nice website and national player database, and lots of other useful stuff that I don't have time to name. Is $50 a year ($30 for ams) too much to ask a pro player to remit to help support disc golf? Of course the PDGA is not perfect but does anyone have a better idea?
So what if the biggest names in disc golf skip the Southern National Final every year? it's their loss...I think they are fools to pass it up, with all the added cash, but I personally don't miss them. from one fed-up t.d. to another, do what is going to make you personally happy, Jim, you have earned it.
Re: SNDG Championships - BR - news
January 05, 2003 09:52AM
first thank you for your thoughts , that is what iam looking for ,yes br will be a and us q , both. i was hoping to get everyone view on it and not just mine. the us open will become the #1 tournament in the world . i think if we keep doing it we will grow in # in the pro field. also innova has help the sn alot. only the quilifiers get to sell the $25 discs for their event , that alone is a big deal since that is the only way you can get ce disc anymore. they also sold shirts real cheap to memphis last year so they could raise money to. now it is up to us to spread the word about the snc being a us open q . the disc golf world needs to put more stuff in the magazine about us. one thing we need to do is list all the sn tournaments and send them in and bug them till they put them in. i will start using some of my ad space to help in that area. we must let all players in the south know of this great opportunity they have. soon we will have a board to decide these things but first i want more members to know what really is going on. i would love to see players from the sn go to the us open and win it or even the top 10. mike young last year and eric tracy was the first two to finish in the top 10 and the sn tour had alot to do with those two young men. we have some great talent coming up and i bet we will be adding to that list real soon. as we get more sponsors would it be great to pay the way for the s.n.c to go to the us open and represent the s.n. tour. thank all of you for your thoughts and keep them coming. jim
are these dates correct?


(ps. toad decided that the LA DOUBLES will not be PDGA, but the LA OPEN will be a BTIER)
Re: SNDG Championships - BR - news
January 07, 2003 08:43AM
Yea Vic, I turned these dates over to Misty at BREC.

We will also get the gym at Highland for the awards after the SNDGC
Re: SNDG Championships - BR - news
January 07, 2003 08:48AM
thanks... i will print flyers for the weekend...
Re: SNDG Championships - BR - news
January 07, 2003 01:35PM
Word Up Bro
It looks like the PDGA is listing the 03 Pro SNC for Memphis again instead of BR. Somebody might want to clear this up.

for the person asking about the 5 dollar fee , it is a fee that you have to pay to play in a p.d.g.a tourney that is what they ask of you if your not a member. it is suppost to be a privaleg to play in a p.d.g.a event and if your not a member then they make you pay an extra 5 for the privalege of playing in a p.d.g.a. event .

SN championship should be an A tier for the money they pay out but jim is doing it the right way because you have to be a p.d.g.a memeber to play in a A-tier event no matter what , no extra 5 to get in , if your not a member then you can't play in a NT event or a A-tier . i think that sucks , because we would get so many more great players and touring pro's coming if SN Championship was a A-tier or a NT tour event .

Im a card holder and a TD for a tour event so i can see both sides of the fence .

More and more events are getting on board with sndg and becoming sndg Q's but the most press we get is when we have the SN championships . becasue it's in the disc golf world news, as a tour event .

I agree with the wipper snapper (zinger) the am side of it shouldn't be a p.d.g.a , that would save alot of money right there.

Thats my 2 cents
Re: SNDG Championships - BR - news
January 11, 2003 12:19AM
ok here we go .....i am totally against sndg converting on adopting into pdga. i believe it is a crock! espiecally since its founding members and the people that play and back all southren national events are pdga and dont want or need pdga. when you give yor money to people that are hungry for your pocket change and you never get to even see it ... i mean what a freking waste. when southern nationals try thier hardest to keep the money to where you get a chance to win the money that is in your group of friends that you play w/ in and out of all sndg tourneys . and to add on that note exactly how many of the sndg peps acctually go and participate in the pdga finals to where it justifies giving somecash to the money hungry leaders of the pdga. instead i feel as if jim o should break away from the pdga and keep it just sndg. we constantly support and follow our great group of people,friends and family that we all have come accustom to seeing every tourney . its is all about fun and winning just to say "i beat you again".not about give $5 =$2 to someone or something that ( for the most of us ) will never see. i mean the sndg is growing at a fanominal rate .we should now at this time i think break away and ventuire on our own and at the rate we are growing as a sport i feel there is room for 2 disc golf giants to the point whereon day soon they will be paying us to list thier points w/ sndg and not us list points and buying into a false idea of discgolf for fun that they have tried to suduce us into $7 at a time ...hahaha. get real!!!

i say jim stand up stay seperate we are all behind you . we dont need them they need us !think it could one day make the best worlds of all sndg vs pdga.

through'em straight and far...till next rant
Re: SNDG Championships - BR - news
January 11, 2003 12:30AM
sndg championships(memphis) cost $70 for an entry. was listed as b tier in pdga when should have been a tier cause most a tiers run that much.
the question i have is why wasnt the payout more ?? i heard that they decided at the last minute to take away from the pay because " b tiers dont usually pay that much money".....tuff doodoo...if the money is there payout the right pay and those that dont make the paycutt tuff! dont adjust just to conform to pdga. if it should pay more due to the simple fact there is more money i say it should .if you and noticed it should be a wake call to the pdga ripping you at thses tourneys when you pay as much as we do to play the money should be there and not taken away and given out justto conform or give to another tourney . if some a tiers dont pay this much owell ...they should rasie the scale or make a better payout ratio
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