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NEW proposed SN handbook section 1 through 3

Posted by John K 
NEW proposed SN handbook section 1 through 3
November 21, 2011 02:46PM
Southern National Tournament Series Handbook

Contents:
Introduction
Section 1.0: Classification of Players
Section 2.0: Qualification for Southern National Disc Golf Championship
Section 3.0: Southern National Disc Golf Board of Directors
Section 4.0: Punishment for Major Rule Violations
Section 5.0: Southern National Disc Golf Qualifier Tournaments
Section 6.0: Competition Manual
Section 7.0: Player Code of Conduct



Introduction

The Southern National Disc Golf (SNDG) tournament series is a sanctioning organization culminating in yearly Championships. SNDG sanctioned Championship qualifying tournaments are individual tournaments run by clubs, organizations or individuals that have requested SNDG sanctioning of their event. No membership is required to participate in the SNDG series or Championships. The series has a Championship qualifying season that starts on June 1st of each year and ends on the following May 31st. Example the 2011-2012 season starts on June 1, 2011 and ends on May 31, 2012. Participating in a SNDG sanctioned tournament during the qualifying season, excluding a SNDG Championship, may qualify the participant to compete in the SNDG Championships that follow the season as provided in Section 2.

Any questions concerning information not covered in the SN Series Handbook or clarification on any information that is covered may be directed to the Southern National Board. Go to sndg.org for contact information.

Section 1.0: Classification of Players

The division classifications listed in this Section shall be used for all SNDG sanctioned Championship qualifying tournaments. The provisions of this Section do not apply to the Championships except as provided in Section 2. A tournament director may, by giving adequate public notice, restrict the divisions offered. Absent such notice, the tournament director shall offer for competition all divisions listed in this Section for which three (3) or more players offer entry. A tournament director may offer any other division but the finishing results in such other divisions may be combined by the SNDG into one of the divisions listed in this Section and/or Championship qualification may be limited for play in such other division as provided in Section 2.


1.1 Professional (Pro) divisions in which players may compete for money and other prizes.
1.1.1 Pro Open (PO): The highest skill professional division available to all players.
1.1.2 Pro Master (P40): A professional division available only to players at least 40 years of age in the calendar year the tournament begins. Example that if a tournament is in May and the player turns 40 years old in November, the player is eligible to play Pro Master (P40) because he will be 40 years old before the end of the calendar year.
1.1.3 Pro Grandmaster (P50): A professional division available only to players at least 50 years of age in the calendar year the tournament begins. Example: a player who turns 50 in 2013 cannot play P50 in an event that begins in 2012, even if the player will be 50 in the qualifying season of the event, because it is age during the calendar year of the event, not the qualifying season, that qualifies for age protection.
1.1.4 Pro Senior Grandmaster (P60): A professional division available only to players at least 60 years of age in the calendar year the tournament begins. Example that a player who turns 60 on 01/01/2013 cannot play P60 in a qualifier event that ends on 01/01/2013 but began on 12/31/2012, because it is age on the event beginning date, not the ending date, that qualifies for age protection.
1.1.5 Pro Women (PW): The highest skill professional division available only to all female born players.
1.1.6 Pro Women Master (PW40): A professional division available only to female born players at least 40 years of age in the calendar year the tournament begins.

1.2 Amateur Status divisions in which players may compete for prizes but may not compete for money for their finish. All players have Amateur Status except as provided below.
1.2.1 A male born player who accepts money, or prizes in lieu of money more than once in a six (6) month period, for their finish in a Pro division has thereby lost Amateur Status and may not compete in an Amateur division except as reclassified in accordance with Section 1.3.
1.2.2 Female born players:
1.2.2.1 A female born player who accepts money, or prizes in lieu of money more than once in a six (6) month period, for their finish in a Pro division has thereby lost Amateur Status and may not compete in an Amateur division restricted to female born players except as reclassified in accordance with Section 1.3.
1.2.2.2 A female born player without Amateur Status may compete in an Amateur division not restricted to female born players if and only if;
1.2.2.2.1 there are no other qualified players offering to enter a Pro Women division listed in Section 1 for which the player is qualified by age and birth gender, and
1.2.2.2.2 the player is qualified under any age restrictions provided for the division, and
1.2.2.2.3 the player is not otherwise unqualified for the division under the provisions of Section 1.2.4 below.
1.2.2.3 A female born player does not obtain Amateur Status by competing in an Amateur division not restricted to female born players.
1.2.3 Ancillary awards not earned by the tournament finishing score, such as player packs, CTPs, rings of fire, ace pots and Skins that do not apply to the finishing score, are excluded from the players finish for the purposes of Amateur Status.
1.2.4 The Amateur Status divisions are provided below.
1.2.4.1 Advanced (ADV): The highest skill Amateur division available only to all players with Amateur Status and to female born players as provided in Section 1.2.2.2 regardless of Amateur status.
1.2.4.2 Advanced Master (A40): A division available only to players with Amateur Status at least 40 years of age in the calendar year the tournament begins and to female born players as provided in Section 1.2.2.2 regardless of Amateur status.
1.2.4.3 Intermediate (INT): An amateur division for players who have developed basic skills and/or have tournament experience and available only to players with Amateur Status who have not accepted any award for their finish in any of the above listed divisions or have been reclassified to qualify in accordance with Section 1.3 and to female born players as provided in Section 1.2.2.2 regardless of Amateur status, who have not accepted any award for their finish in either of the Advanced divisions provided by 1.2.4.1 and 1.2.4.2 above or have been reclassified to qualify in accordance with Section 1.3.
1.2.4.4 Recreational (REC): An amateur division for beginning players available only to players who have not accepted any award for their finish in any of the above listed divisions.
1.2.4.5 Junior (JR16): An amateur division available only to players less than 16 years of age on the date the tournament ends.
1.2.4.6 Advanced Women (AW): The highest skill Amateur division available only to all female born players with Amateur Status.
1.2.4.7 Intermediate Women (IW): An amateur division available only to all female born players with Amateur Status who have not accepted any award for their finish in any of the above listed female restricted divisions or have been reclassified to qualify in accordance with Section 1.3.

1.3 Player Reclassification:
1.3.1 A player not qualified for an Amateur division due to having accepted a finishing award in a Pro division (gained Professional Status) may compete in an Advanced Amateur division for which the player would otherwise be qualified after finishing four (4) consecutive immediately preceding Championship qualifying tournaments without accepting a finishing award in any and all Pro divisions in which the player accepted a finishing award.
1.3.2 A player not qualified for an Intermediate Amateur division due to having accepted a finishing award in an Advanced Amateur division may compete in an Intermediate Amateur division for which the player would otherwise be qualified after finishing four (4) consecutive immediately preceding Championship qualifying tournaments without accepting a finishing award in any and all Advanced Amateur divisions in which the player accepted a finishing award.
1.3.3 Competition in a tournament without finishing all holes and rounds offered shall be disregarded for the purposes of player reclassification if no finishing award is accepted. Example a DNF (Did Not Finish) with no finishing award accepted will not qualify or disqualify a player for reclassification. Example accepting a finishing prize for a DNF means the player must finish four (4) subsequent events as specified above to be reclassified.

1.4 A player may only compete in a single division of a tournament at one time. Where a tournament offers different divisions at different times, a director may allow a player to play in multiple divisions if otherwise qualified.

1.5 A players Amateur Status and divisional classification for a singles event, SNAC or SNPC is not changed or affected by competing or accepting awards of any kind in a SNDG doubles tournament and/or the SNDG Doubles Championship.

1.6 A player may compete in any division for which they are qualified in accordance with the above rules. Exception: the tournament director of a qualifier event may limit the divisions a player may enter in the directors qualifier event based on the players past performance. A tournament director may exclude any player from entry in the directors qualifier event.


Section 2.0: Qualification for Southern National Disc Golf Championships

The SNDG tournament Series uses individual seasons in determining SNDG Championship eligibility. The SNDG Championships are held after each SNDG qualifying season as provided in the Introduction of these rules. The Southern National Doubles Championship (SNDC) is typically held the last full weekend in July. The Southern National Amateur Championship (SNAC) is typically mid-August, two weekends prior to the Labor Day weekend. The Southern National Pro Championship (SNPC) is typically held the first weekend of September (Labor Day weekend).

2.1 Players competing in SNDG sanctioned qualifier tournaments, whether singles or doubles, in divisions listed in Section 1 above, excluding the Recreational (REC) division, earn two (2) points on the last day of the tournament toward qualifying to compete in the SNDG Championships by finishing at least one (1) full round and at least eighteen (18) holes in the tournament. Players competing in SNDG sanctioned qualifier tournaments in a division not listed in Section 1 above, whether singles or doubles, earn two (2) points on the last day of the tournament toward qualifying to compete in the SNDG Championships by finishing at least one (1) full round and at least eighteen (18) holes in the tournament if the results are combined into a division listed in Section 1 above. The following division classifications, if offered by a tournament director, shall be combined into the next least restricted Section 1 division as follows:
2.1.1 Pro Legends (P70) results, restricted to players at least 70 years of age in the calendar year the tournament begins, are combined with Pro Senior Grandmaster (P60) in regards to SN points earned and fees collected.
2.1.2 Amateur Advanced Grandmaster (A50), restricted to players at least 50 years of age in the calendar year the tournament begins and Amateur Advanced Senior Grandmaster (A60) results, restricted to players at least 60 years of age in the calendar year the tournament begins, are combined with Advanced Master (A40) in regards to SN points earned and fees collected.
2.1.3 Advanced Master Women (AW40) results are combined with Advanced Women (AW) in regards to SN points earned and fees collected.
2.1.4 Junior divisions restricted to female born players (JW16) less than 16 years of age on the date the tournament ends are combined with Junior (JR16) in regards to SN points earned.
2.1.5 Any other division results authorized and published by the SNDG are combined in regards to points awarded and fees collected with the closest approximate division listed in Section 1.

2.2 Players qualify for a SNDG Championship by having earned at least two (2) SNDG points in the qualifying season.
2.2.1 Example that to earn any points to qualify for any of the 2012 SNDG Championships (SNDC, SNAC, SNPC) a player must have played in a SNDG qualifying tournament held within the 2011-2012 season in a division listed or combined into a division listed in Section 1 excluding the Recreational (REC) division.
2.2.2 Example that points earned on or after June 1st 2012 do not qualify the player for any 2012 Championships.
2.2.3 Example that no points are earned for a 2012 Championship in a tournament that began on May 31st 2012 and ended on June 1st 2012.
2.2.4 Example that competing in a tournament without finishing at least one (1) full round and eighteen (18) holes does not earn any points toward qualifying for any Championship.
2.2.5 Example that competing in the Recreational (REC) division or any division with results combined with the Recreational (REC) division does not earn any points toward qualifying for any Championship.

2.3 Players points awarded in a SNDG qualifier tournament are recorded in the division the player is registered for or in the Section 1 listed division the results are combined with. It is the players responsibility to ensure that the players points are reflected accurately in the tournament results for SNDG Championship qualification purposes. Nicknames or one word names such as Madonna or Mike or just last names must be verifiable against an individual player or else they can't be used to determine eligibility. Example that if a TD does not specify a players first and last name in the submitted results but lists a result for Mike W., Mike W. isnt specific enough to determine the players identity in regard to SNDG Championship qualification. Any person so affected should contact the TD or SNDG stats person to correct the name to reflect the correct individual.

2.4 A tournament director (1) for each SNDG qualifier event that does not otherwise earn points for competing in the event directed is awarded two (2) points toward qualifying for the Championships in any division the player is otherwise qualified for. The tournament director awarded points should be listed as such in the event details pertaining to the tournament.

2.5 A player is awarded an additional one (1) point for each player or team passed in the players registered division at the end of the tournament. Example that if your division had ten (10) players or teams and you or your team finished 1st, you or you and your teammate each would receive two (2) points for playing and one (1) point for each player or team you beat (9) for a total of eleven (11) points.

2.6 A players cumulative points earned in the qualifying season determine whether the player will receive a SNDG Championship invitation for the division(s) the player earned points in. An invitation to compete in a SNDG Championship division certifies the players points qualification for the earliest available entry and registration in that Championship division. Invitations are determined only for the SNAC and SNPC.

2.7 Following a period to be specified for invitation only entry and registration, a player with qualifying Amateur points may register for the SNAC and a player with qualifying Pro points may register for the SNPC.

2.8 A player with only qualifying Amateur points is qualified to play in the applicable SNPC but may not register for entry in the SNPC before the last two weeks preceding the date the event begins. Example the Amateur only points holder with no SNPC invitation cannot play in the applicable SNPC if it fills up 15 days before it begins. Example that if the SNPC begins on Saturday, the first day a player with Am points but no Pro points may register for the SNPC is the Saturday 2 weeks before the event.

2.9 A player who has no Amateur SNDG points for the qualifying season but has finished at least one (1) full round and eighteen (18) holes in a SNDG qualifier tournament in the Recreational (REC) division, or any such Amateur division for which no points were awarded, in the qualifying season is qualified to enter the applicable SNAC/SNDC but may not register for the SNAC/SNDC before the last week preceding the date the event begins.

2.10 Player division classification for a SNAC and SNPC is determined by the players Amateur Status and division qualification as provided in Section 1 on the last day of the SNDG qualifying season.
2.10.1 Example this allows players whose skills have improved to move up to start a new SN season without affecting their division qualification at any Championships for the previous season.
2.10.2 Example that a player in the Advanced (ADV) division throughout the 2011-2012 season who first played in the Pro Open (PO) division on June 1, 2012 can accept Pro cash in that event and still play in the SNAC on 08/15/2012 in the Advanced (ADV) division because that was the players division status at the end of the 2011-2012 season.
2.10.3 Example that a female born player without Amateur Status may compete in the SNAC in an Amateur division not restricted to female born players if Amateur points, age and award acceptance requirements for the division are met.
2.10.4 Example that players with applicable points who turn 40 in 2012 are qualified for the P40 division at the 2012 Championships, even if they did not play in a Master age division during the qualifying season, because Pro points qualify for all SNPC non-gender-restricted divisions except for invitational purposes. Amateur points qualify in the same cross-division way for the SNAC.

2.11 A SNDG qualifying Doubles tournament and/or Championship team will consist of 2 players.

2.12 Player division classification for the SNDC is determined by the players Amateur Status and division qualification as provided in Section 1 on the last day of the SNDG qualifying season. The team may only enter a division for which both players were qualified per Section 1 at the end of the qualifying season.
2.12.1 Example the team will register in the higher division if the team players are in two different classifications.
2.12.2 Example: two players team up, one is classified as Advanced (ADV) and the other is classified as Intermediate (INT) at the end of the qualifying season. The team would have to sign up in the Advanced (ADV) division because the INT player can move up but the Advanced (ADV) player can't move down absent reclassification during the qualifying season under 1.3.

2.12.3 No player may enter or register for a SNDG Championship except as provided above.

2.13 A players Amateur Status and divisional classification for a singles event, SNAC or SNPC is not changed or affected by competing or accepting awards of any kind in a SNDG doubles tournament and/or the SNDG Doubles Championship.

Section 3.0: Southern National Disc Golf Board of Directors

3.1 Board of Directors
3.1.2 The Southern National Disc Golf Tournament Series is managed by a Board of Directors consisting of six voting members and Jim Orum as honorary 7th seat, voting only as a tiebreaker.
3.1.1 There are six elected seats on the Board. Seats 2, 4, and 6 are elected in even numbered years. Seats 1, 3, and 5 are elected in odd numbered years.

3.2 Board Member Election
3.2.1 Election for no more than three opposed or resigning members is held once a year in accordance with this Section.
3.2.2 Election time line provides new members to be elected by and announced at the SNDG Pro Championship.

3.3 SNDG Board Member Eligibility
3.3.1 The individual must be a disc golf player or tournament director having earned two (2) points in the most recent SNDG season that ended prior to the voting closing date and be at least 18 years of age at the end of said season. Example that for the 2012 election, the individual must have earned two (2) SNDG points in the 2011-2012 SNDG Season.
3.3.2 The individual must have access to and use of the internet including E-mail and AOL Messenger for meetings and communication.

3.4 SNDG Voter Eligibility
3.4.1 Only persons who earned two (2) points in the most recent SNDG season that ended prior to the voting closing date or the current season of the voting closing date may vote. Example that for the person to be eligible to vote in the 2012 SNDG Board election the person must have earned two (2) SNDG points in the 2011-2012 or 2012-2013 SNDG season.

3.5 Board Member Nominees
3.5.1 Players interested in serving on the SNDG Board of Directors must declare by sending an e-mail including name, address, and phone number to the designated election coordinator. Declarations for Board Member will only be accepted and confirmed through e-mail. Midnight May 1 is the deadline for a player to declare. Results will be posted on the SNDG Forum.
3.5.2 Votes will be accepted via e-mail, pm or other established means and must include full name of voter. No nicknames will be accepted (i.e. - Banger, Treeknocker, or T-bone). The candidates for the SNDG Board of Directors will be posted on the SNDG Forum.

3.6 Board Member Candidates
3.6.1 Voting for candidates to serve on the SNDG Board will begin July 1.
3.6.2 Voting options will be made available at the SNDG Doubles Championship, SNDG Am Championship and the SNDG Pro Championship.
3.6.3 The SNDG Pro Championship second round two minute warning is the deadline for written ballots to be deposited in ballot boxes provided at the Championship.
3.6.4 The newly elected Board Members will be announced at the SNDG Pro Championship awards presentation and posted on the SNDG Forum.

3.7 Board Member Attendance
3.7.1 If a Board Member misses 3 consecutive meetings, he or she will be placed on probation.
3.7.2 Any Board Member that misses a meeting while on probation will be removed from the Board of Directors.

3.8 Board Member Removal, Resignation or Demise
3.8.1 The removal, resignation or demise of a board member shall vacate the seat of the board member.
3.8.2 Upon an elected SN board member (seats 1-6) vacancy the remaining Board members will determine based on length of vacancy whether to fill the vacancy or wait until the next election.
3.8.2.1 If less than 6 months remains until the next SN Board election date the position shall remain empty.
3.8.2.2 If more than 6 months remains the board member will be replaced.
3.8.3 If the SN Board falls below four (4) active elected members an election will be held regardless of the time until the next election.
3.8.4 Additional elections to replace a vacant elected position will follow the same parameters as Section 3.3 through 3.6 but the timeline and dates will be condensed/ determined by the board.
3.8.5 The honorary 7th seat if vacated by Jim Orum will remain unfilled until the next election. The position will revert to a fully participating elected two (2) year position and will follow the election parameters as outlined above in determining a replacement.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2011 09:50AM by John K.
Re: NEW proposed SN handbook section 1 through 3
November 21, 2011 02:57PM
Above is the first 3 sections of the new proposed SN handbook.....please feel free to read and offer opinions. As stated elsewhere the SN series needs to establish a more comphrensive set of rules and then make them available to the players and tds. Hopefully this is a good step in that direction.

Kevin Lewis was a big help in a lot of ways to the board in regards to what you are reading. Thanks Kevin!! This is a pretty worked through draft at this point and opinions on what we got right and where we might have missed the mark are appreciated.

We are working on the proposed 4 through 7 and the championship guidelines as well and will post them when they are close as well.....

JOhn k



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/2011 02:59PM by John K.
Dex
Re: NEW proposed SN handbook section 1 through 3
November 21, 2011 03:16PM
Thank You John, Kevin and all involved



Dex
Re: NEW proposed SN handbook section 1 through 3
November 21, 2011 03:47PM
Ditto ^^^^^^

Great job to all involved : )

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Teresa Key
KEY CHAINS DISC GOLF
Fort Walton Beach, FL
Re: NEW proposed SN handbook section 1 through 3
November 21, 2011 09:38PM
3.7.1 and 3.7.2 have already changed before. It was voted on and changed to another wording. I posted about it in the SN Board Forum. It needs rewording.
We discussed it here: [www.sndg.org]
We voted that any member that has missed multiple meetings may be voted off of the board. This skips the whole "probationary process" and allows for extenuating circumstances to be considered. In the current wording, it doesn't allow for extenuating circumstances.

Oh yeah, and this is where I posted about it before: [www.sndg.org]

_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Justin Tolbert
BHS Disc Golf [www.youtube.com]
Mobile, Alabama



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/2011 09:41PM by jtolbert.
Re: NEW proposed SN handbook section 1 through 3
November 21, 2011 11:50PM
I think the pdf or doc would be a little easier to read with the formatting. I'll post them here for download if you want.

I've enjoyed working with John and Justin on the project. I know we are not done but maybe it is a good start.
Re: NEW proposed SN handbook section 1 through 3
November 21, 2011 11:58PM
female born players

So getting a sex change to cash in pro is out, then????

If I'm TD, I ain't checking.




Just kidding about the sex change, but not about not checking.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/2011 11:58PM by jacques.
Re: NEW proposed SN handbook section 1 through 3
November 22, 2011 12:48AM
Great job. I know this took a lot of work.
Re: NEW proposed SN handbook section 1 through 3
November 22, 2011 06:47AM
2.1.1 Pro Legends (P70) results, restricted to players at least 60 years of age in the calendar year the tournament begins, are combined with Pro Senior Grandmaster (P60) in regards to SN points earned and fees collected.

I believe this should read.........restricted to players at least 70 years of age........

Gary Wagoner
Re: NEW proposed SN handbook section 1 through 3
November 22, 2011 07:12AM
Thanks Gary...it's been corrected......and thanks for all the inputs so far..

JOhn k
Re: NEW proposed SN handbook section 1 through 3
November 22, 2011 08:23AM
Gary Wagoner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 2.1.1 Pro Legends (P70) results, restricted to
> players at least 60 years of age in the calendar
> year the tournament begins, are combined with Pro
> Senior Grandmaster (P60) in regards to SN points
> earned and fees collected.
>
> I believe this should read.........restricted to
> players at least 70 years of age........
>
> Gary Wagoner

Actually no. That was not an error. I know Legends is typically a 70+ division but that offering is up to the TD and the SN does not track its points separately. The "points" division it gets combined with is a 60+ division so the TD can really set the Legends age to whatever he wants to as long as it is 60+. There is no reason a 65+ division player (P65) can't be combined with PSG points if that is what the TD and players want.
Re: NEW proposed SN handbook section 1 through 3
November 22, 2011 08:25AM
John K Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks Gary...it's been corrected......and thanks
> for all the inputs so far..
>
> JOhn k


You should un-correct it because it was right at 60.
Re: NEW proposed SN handbook section 1 through 3
November 22, 2011 08:27AM
jacques Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> female born players
>
> So getting a sex change to cash in pro is out,
> then????
>
> If I'm TD, I ain't checking.
>
>
>
>
> Just kidding about the sex change, but not about
> not checking.


No Dundee TD's please!

[www.youtube.com]

(Sorry, the scene is about 5 minutes in)

Some may say an original state issued birth certificate is not enough to prove gender!

Mississippi players may need a photo ID!

TD's will do as they always have.
Re: NEW proposed SN handbook section 1 through 3
November 22, 2011 09:40AM
The reason for the rule 2.1.1 is to acknowledge that TD's may offer a 70+ restricted division and if they do its results are automatically combined into the 60+ section 1 division. Since it is not a separate division for SN purposes the SN does not need to restrict it to 70+ players. The TD can and should do that if they are going to call it P70 but that is up to the TD. All the SN needs to know is that it is a 60+ division and that it was offered as a 70+ division or called Pro Legends and either way it goes into the P60 division. If the TD wants a P85 or P65 division he can do that but for the points to go into the P60 division the board has to approve it. No special approval is required for a P70 division as long as the TD calls it that and it was restricted to 60+ players. I noticed other changes were made in 2.1 missing this concept so they should be fixed back too.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2011 09:42AM by Discjazz.
Re: NEW proposed SN handbook section 1 through 3
November 22, 2011 01:11PM
I also noticed in another thread that the site results are going to be updated to include the 2 new separate divisions, AW & PSG, which is accounted for in the proposed new handbook. While you are at it why not go ahead and fix it so finishing prizes are separated from ancillary prizes. You could still have a combined prize column, but without this separation it takes a little extra thought to tell whether a player has lost amateur status or qualifies for reclassification from our results. It might even be impossible to tell if a CTP or other ancillary prize is about the right size for last place cash. An ace pot could easily be mistaken for a finishing prize.
Re: NEW proposed SN handbook section 1 through 3
November 22, 2011 09:05PM
This would also require TD's to separate that... lots don't.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Take me to the window and understand
I got a rocking chair in my skin.
And every time the wind blows
It brings me down to meet the mood I'm in.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


SN Top25 Bag Tag database
BRDGA Top10 Bag Tag database
MADGA Top10 Bag Tag database
SFC Top10 Bag Tag database
Re: NEW proposed SN handbook section 1 through 3
November 23, 2011 08:20AM
Instead of saying "Lost Amateur Status," it could be stated in a positive light as, "Has earned Certified status in [the respective division] . . ." and build around that. This gives the players an additional motivation in that they something to play for. Also, a TD can say we had X number of SN Certified Pros at our tournament this year, Down the road, the SN could also sell annual marketing rights to the certification. All that aside, I think placing it in a positive light would be better. Then if the player fails to Cash as per the rules, he loses the certification until he regains it in competition. That way you earn when you win and lose when you lose, not the other way around.
Re: NEW proposed SN handbook section 1 through 3
November 23, 2011 09:57AM
Changed "lost Amateur Status" to "gained Professional Status" ....it stating the same thing but I agree it is coming from a positive rather than a negative.

JOhn k
Re: NEW proposed SN handbook section 1 through 3
November 23, 2011 10:26AM
So why should the SN require players to be 70 years old just to have their points, fees and invitation potential distributed to 60 year olds? I understand why qualifier TD's may offer the more restricted division but I don't understand why the SN would have a restriction for a division it does not distribute to.
Re: NEW proposed SN handbook section 1 through 3
November 23, 2011 12:49PM
2.1.1 through 2.1.4 are examples stated from know divisions that have been offered by either/or the SN or pdga in the past and 2.1.5 covers everything else. The purpose of that section is so that players are aware that not all divisions offered at a SN tournament are given their own points division for the entire season. Yes for those irregular divisions they are reflected in the results but the SN points and fees collected are folded into other divisions. This section lets the players know what those divisions are.

I also like the idea of seperating out the payout from the extra stuff like players packs, ctps ect...

JOhn k
Re: NEW proposed SN handbook section 1 through 3
November 24, 2011 03:07PM
JK wrote:
"not all divisions offered at a SN tournament are given their own points division for the entire season. Yes for those irregular divisions they are reflected in the results but the SN points and fees collected are folded into other divisions."

The fist hint of this application (that all divisions are not the same for SNC purposes) is in the Introduction (last sentence). Section 1 divisions are tracked and given priority in that a TD has to offer them, subject to some liberal exceptions. Section 2 adds some non-tracked divisions that still track the player for the SNC's.

My goal for the rules on the divisions added in Section 2 was to set the minimum SN standard. I thought that should most fairly be determined by the Section 1 division the non-tracked divisions would be folded into rather than the more restrictive commonly known standard of the non-tracked division.

OTHO I think John's goal was to name commonly known divisions ("examples stated from know divisions that have been offered by either/or the SN or pdga in the past") so that we all would know which ones automatically track the player for the SNC's even though the division is not tracked.

I did not realize the SN wanted to adopt the commonly known standard as the SN minimum standard for the added divisions rather than have the SN minimum standard be the same for all players folded together. That is why the original draft posted was not in error to me but was in error to Gary and John.

Sorry I didn't figure that out before the initial post.
Anonymous User
Re: NEW proposed SN handbook section 1 through 3
December 29, 2011 11:06AM
Talk talk talk
Re: NEW proposed SN handbook section 1 through 3
December 29, 2011 02:10PM
Looks like the talking stopped a month ago so if you don't have any suggested changes Bluff I think it is time for adoption. What say the BOD?
Anonymous User
Re: NEW proposed SN handbook section 1 through 3
December 29, 2011 02:37PM
Mr. Jazz, I do not see anything in section 3 that allows for the removal of directors for anything other than absenteeism from meetings of the BoD.

If I am going to lead the revolt to overthrow this mockery of a BoD, I would like you to give me the mechanism for doing so. But what form might this mechanism take? You can't say a percentage of the voters because the SN doesn't know who actually votes.

To be honest, it seems that the entire SN election system has been a failure. The elections have served only to give players false hope that new people on the BoD might move the series forward. To me, it seems it is high time to appoint people to lead the series. We all recognize that Kittrell is the glue that holds the SN together, and he is currently being hindered in his efforts to fix the SN by the rest of the BoD who have proven incapable of anything other than talking about doing something. I think we need to find a way to remove the hindrances to JK, compensate him in some small way for his efforts, and figure out how to keep people like the current BoD from ever getting back into positions where they only pretend to be useful.
Re: NEW proposed SN handbook section 1 through 3
December 29, 2011 05:06PM
Section 4 is supposed to deal with elections and BOD seats. Attendance is the only basis for member removal that has been proposed to my knowledge. We overthrow by election, which does take 2 years.

I'm in favor of adding a failure to vote standard.

I haven't thought of an objective standard to propose for do-nothingness, uselessness, pretending or failure to lead. I'm guessing those who don't run for the BOD could fall into one or more of those categories, which is most of us.

I am saying none of that is an excuse for not adopting the first 3 sections.
Anonymous User
Re: NEW proposed SN handbook section 1 through 3
December 29, 2011 06:20PM
Can we get the sneak preview of Section 4 perhaps Mr. Jazz? I mean by the time this BoD wakes up to vote we could finish all the sections, but I'm kinda interested in Section 4.
Re: NEW proposed SN handbook section 1 through 3
December 29, 2011 06:59PM
Section 4 was benchmarked from the pdga.....but as Kevin pointed out section 4 and 7 are pretty similar and they will probably be combined....

JOhn k
Re: NEW proposed SN handbook section 1 through 3
December 29, 2011 07:15PM
Can we get a sneak preview of whether Bluff likes the first 3 sections?
Anonymous User
Re: NEW proposed SN handbook section 1 through 3
December 29, 2011 07:45PM
I love 1.3.1 but I don't like 1.3.2 at all. Amateur players should be allowed to move around am divisions as much as they like. Keep it simple; draw the line for sandbaggers between pro and am and don't waste time keeping track of any shades of amateur divisions. Sometimes there might only be a couple people in an am's regular division at a tournament and ams shouldn't be penalized for playing up to advanced for a week and then dropping back down.

1.5 is perfect.

I love 2.3 where it is made the player's responsibility to ensure one's points are reflected accurately.

I'm cool with 2.12.3 but the SN needs to start requiring TDs to have their results posted and fees paid within 60 days (at the very very very maximum) or the points system will keep being a bit of a joke. To have SN points start to matter you have to start holding TDs accountable.

As for section 3, that will be rewritten after the forthcoming coup d'etat.
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