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What happens when a higher division player plays down a division?

Posted by dustin morris 
What happens when a higher division player plays down a division?
February 08, 2012 09:26AM
i have seen a few players playing in lower divisions when they have cashed in higher divisions....just curious on how we are supposed to stop people from playing down.
Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division?
February 08, 2012 09:31AM
I understand that you can accept prizes instead of cash....but in my oppinion, 1 it shouldn't be posted as cash on the site, and 2 i think the cash should go to the next person in line instead of allowing them to accept discs. how are we supposed to know the difference if they accepted prizes?
Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division?
February 08, 2012 11:36AM
Currently we just have an honor/peer policing system with no SN penalty. I think the latter is being worked on. Points stripping and suspension are potential after-the-fact penalties. However catching violators, before or after the event, will take time dedication. Whoever cares about the issue should volunteer to compile and once a week update a list of players who are not qualified for Novice/Rec, Intermediate and any Amateur division. The information is available on this site but lists are not automatically generated from results. Another approach would be to design a new results system for this site. It is not realistic for TD's to catch violators at this time.
Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division?
February 08, 2012 11:44AM
I'll be bringing this up at the meeting this evening. It's something that I brought up recently. I like your ideas there, Kevin. Very true, at this point, we can't expect TD's to dig and make sure every player is being honest when they sign up for that division.

Jamie "Massive J" Massengale
Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division?
February 08, 2012 12:08PM
I am in the same boat as how we are to determine if a player took "cash" or "prizes" from an event. This site always factors in cash, ctp's, ace pots, lunch values, etc . . . . it makes it confusing as to what is "real" money or "merchandise" money. Obviously real cash was used to pay for the wholesale value of most prizes, but again we have nothing to differ between an Amateur player taking Merch for placing 2nd in Men Pro Open event right?
Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division?
February 08, 2012 12:25PM
If you except prizes you can go up and down it shouldn't matter what they play if they aren't winning it shouldn't matter
Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division?
February 08, 2012 12:33PM
If you cash in pro...u should cash in am divisions almost every time in my oppinion....depending if you went to a tournament with more than 3 or 4 players.
Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division?
February 08, 2012 12:43PM
Dustin,

We had that happen, a players basically signed up in Amateurs when he had cashed in Advance within the new time frame. I was not aware of it at the time, as you know, things get pretty hectic during signups.

When I found out this it what was done:

Player lost his entry fee, did not get his winnings, and received no points for the event!

Of course this player thinks it is MY fault that he signed up in a division he was not elligible for and no longer attends events that I am involved with.

So be it, if players cannot conform to the rules of play as specified by the PDGA rulebook and the SN Guidelines, we don't need them.

Same thing for another playerer who did not get to their tee on time and just played with another group. DQ'd, and MY fault again for enforcing the rules!

Dg Guy - Disc GOlf Plaques & Awards
417-876-2197 House
417-296-6560 Cell

Know what you throw. . .
. . . throw what you know!
Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division?
February 08, 2012 12:47PM
Great post...as this is my OPINION too!^^^^^^^
Spellcheck please....

Hukd on fonikz werkd fur mi!
Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division?
February 08, 2012 01:41PM
Bill, what i am saying...what would you have done if he would have said he turned down his cash? ( the real issue is going from cash money down to lower divisions because that is what designates you to a professional) You did make the correct choice on that rule. Say that was the case except he cashed in pro and he said he turned down his cash for plastic...he would then be eligable to play intermediate. If the same person cashes in advanced and took plastic he is designated an advanced player....
Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division?
February 08, 2012 01:51PM
I think we now have pretty good rule limitations on moving down. We still need better publication but that is coming. Enforcement is the issue.

DG Guy you did right with the division violator but how did you find out?
Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division?
February 08, 2012 01:53PM
nevermind..cash takes 4 tournies to move down...period.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/08/2012 02:01PM by wayneacree.
Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division?
February 08, 2012 02:04PM
if an intermediate player plays pro and cashes and accepts plastic is he eligable to play in intermediate?

if the above is true...

If an intermediate player plays advanced and cashes what can he accept to still be eligable to play in intermediate?


From the information that i have seen, if you play pro and accept prizes you forfeight pro status and is eligable for your previous division correct? or is it if you accept prizes it counts as advanced?

If i show up at a tournament and say i accepted prizes in all my tournaments that i cashed, they would have to call every TD that i cashed under. That would take so much time that most TD's would not bother and i do not blame them.
Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division?
February 08, 2012 02:16PM
Pardon my stupidity, but WHY are you allowed to say "I'll just take plastic, instead of cash"??? Winning is winning and $$$ or sponsorships PAID for the "prizes" being given in lieu of cash, so..... WHY is this allowed. Just curious........

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Teresa Key
KEY CHAINS DISC GOLF
Fort Walton Beach, FL
Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division?
February 08, 2012 02:22PM
Tired of arguing with idiots.
Spellcheck peeps..if you want to be respected... learn to spell first...MMMKAY?

Hukd on fonikz werkd fur mi!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/08/2012 02:43PM by wayneacree.
Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division?
February 08, 2012 02:27PM
KeyChains1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pardon my stupidity, but WHY are you allowed to
> say "I'll just take plastic, instead of cash"???
> Winning is winning and $$$ or sponsorships PAID
> for the "prizes" being given in lieu of cash,
> so..... WHY is this allowed. Just curious........


exactly
Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division?
February 08, 2012 02:33PM
dustin morris Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> if an intermediate player plays pro and cashes and
> accepts plastic is he eligable to play in
> intermediate?
>
> if the above is true...
>
> If an intermediate player plays advanced and
> cashes what can he accept to still be eligable to
> play in intermediate?

The thing with this is that both are amature divions. In reality, advanced and amature, although one is higher than the other and takes a higher skill level to play, are looked at the same. The reason you can cash in Pro and take plastic but still play in Amature is because they are two seperate classifications. Advanced Amature and Intermediate Amature are basically the same division just with a slightly different name from a logistical standpoint.

For example, In the case of Cameron Colglazier, correct me if I am wrong, he took cash at Alabama States to keep his eligibility for Am Worlds.

At any rate, I doubt even the top Intermediate Amature will cash where top pro's are playing in a Pro Open tournament, especially in multiple tournaments. If they take prizes, they should be able to play down again as, from the logistical side, have not lost Amature status.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/08/2012 02:35PM by codyroberts18.
Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division?
February 08, 2012 02:38PM
Ok.

1) *amateur
[dictionary.reference.com]

2) You turn down cash to keep your eligibility. If you accept cash, you can't move back down.


If an am player moves up and cashes in advanced, that player is then advanced. Is this a hard concept to grasp?

Jamie "Massive J" Massengale



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/08/2012 02:39PM by MassiveJ.
Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division?
February 08, 2012 02:41PM
MassiveJ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok.
>
> 1) *amateur
> [dictionary.reference.com]
> 00084&qsrc=2871&l=dir
>
> 2) You turn down cash to keep your eligibility.
> If you accept cash, you can't move back down.
>
>
> If an am player moves up and cashes in advanced,
> that player is then advanced. Is this a hard
> concept to grasp?


but if an intermediate moves up to pro and takes 1st and accepts plastic, he can still play intermediate?
Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division?
February 08, 2012 02:41PM
not for me, but some others can't count with their shoes on.
Remember that EVERYONE plays disc golf..even the ones that can't count past four.
Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division?
February 08, 2012 02:42PM
YES! Plastic does not make you lose your amature status, only cash!
Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division?
February 08, 2012 03:29PM
that just makes no sense to me because if you cash in advanced you have to drop the entire payout to have intermediate status....but if you play pro you can move back down to intermediate because you accepted plastic.....
Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division?
February 08, 2012 03:39PM
Why would a player who can cash in a higher division want to move back down?

Why would a person who's good enough to move up to pro from intermediate turn down cash?

I understand that if I play pro in SN, I can cash all day and accept money. That would mean I'm a pro in Southern Nationals.
But...
If I play a PDGA event, I can play advanced, even though I've cashed in PRO in SN and accepted cash.

Jamie "Massive J" Massengale
Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division?
February 08, 2012 03:40PM
See what they do in ball golf..it is the same..AND ams are welcome to play without getting paid for winning. Playing well once in a pro format is not the same as playing well regularly.
Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division?
February 08, 2012 03:49PM
Here's an example....

I play PRO in a certain wonderful Ice Bowl at which I whip the Pro Field into the MUD (nevermind how many birdies I bought for a great charitable tax break) - I WHIPPED dem boyz!!!


I go to the awards ceremony and illustrious TD hands me an envelope full of my winnings - which I gracefully request be turned over to the charity!!!


I retain my LIFETIME ADVANCED status.....and the Pros go on whining for weeks!!!!


PRICELESS!!!!!

just 'sayin'.........
Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division?
February 08, 2012 06:47PM
Leif Swenson, a now pro out of California, played pro during the 2011 season. He did not accept cash, only plastic, so he could try and win Am Nats in Michigan. He placed well, and I believe he won a tournament as well. However, since he only took plastic, he participated in Am Nats.
Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division?
February 08, 2012 07:16PM
Nice move Griff.

If a player accepts Pro money, Amateur status is lost no matter what the player does with the money. If it is declined the player has no control over what is done with the money. Thankfully in Griff's example, the TD honored the "graceful request" of gift to the charity. SN plastic in lieu of money to retain amateur status can only happen once in a 6 month period. So, Leif Swenson could not do that in the SN.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/08/2012 07:17PM by Discjazz.
Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division?
February 08, 2012 08:31PM
5 comes after 4!
Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division?
February 08, 2012 08:47PM
U
Play pro why are you even worried about the am division?
Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division?
February 08, 2012 10:15PM
When I was told of how it went down and that he said "he didn't remember" if he had cashed in advanced, I took out my iPhone and looked it up on the Southern Nationals Stats!

BUSTED!

He had cashed in Advanced only a month earlier, gives pause to the effects of beer on the brain! He actually told my helpers that they were going to sign him up in Ams and then told me that it was their fault not his, denial all over it! Facts don't lie, and neither do I! And I just hate a lier, it just never stops, they have to keep telling lies to cover the one they just told.

Now there are a lot of Disc GOlfers out there with smart phones, the problem being that it is the PLAYERS responsibility to enter in a division that they are qualified for!

If you have to chase it down after the fact, you have no choice but to DQ the offender.

Dg Guy - Disc GOlf Plaques & Awards
417-876-2197 House
417-296-6560 Cell

Know what you throw. . .
. . . throw what you know!
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