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What happens when a higher division player plays down a division?
Posted by dustin morris
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What happens when a higher division player plays down a division? February 08, 2012 09:26AM |
Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 1,425 |
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Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division? February 08, 2012 09:31AM |
Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 1,425 |
I understand that you can accept prizes instead of cash....but in my oppinion, 1 it shouldn't be posted as cash on the site, and 2 i think the cash should go to the next person in line instead of allowing them to accept discs. how are we supposed to know the difference if they accepted prizes?
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Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division? February 08, 2012 11:36AM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 1,233 |
Currently we just have an honor/peer policing system with no SN penalty. I think the latter is being worked on. Points stripping and suspension are potential after-the-fact penalties. However catching violators, before or after the event, will take time dedication. Whoever cares about the issue should volunteer to compile and once a week update a list of players who are not qualified for Novice/Rec, Intermediate and any Amateur division. The information is available on this site but lists are not automatically generated from results. Another approach would be to design a new results system for this site. It is not realistic for TD's to catch violators at this time.
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Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division? February 08, 2012 11:44AM |
Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 1,542 |
I'll be bringing this up at the meeting this evening. It's something that I brought up recently. I like your ideas there, Kevin. Very true, at this point, we can't expect TD's to dig and make sure every player is being honest when they sign up for that division.
Jamie "Massive J" Massengale
Jamie "Massive J" Massengale
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Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division? February 08, 2012 12:08PM |
Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 1,320 |
I am in the same boat as how we are to determine if a player took "cash" or "prizes" from an event. This site always factors in cash, ctp's, ace pots, lunch values, etc . . . . it makes it confusing as to what is "real" money or "merchandise" money. Obviously real cash was used to pay for the wholesale value of most prizes, but again we have nothing to differ between an Amateur player taking Merch for placing 2nd in Men Pro Open event right?
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Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division? February 08, 2012 12:25PM |
Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 117 |
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Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division? February 08, 2012 12:33PM |
Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 1,425 |
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Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division? February 08, 2012 12:43PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 2,371 |
Dustin,
We had that happen, a players basically signed up in Amateurs when he had cashed in Advance within the new time frame. I was not aware of it at the time, as you know, things get pretty hectic during signups.
When I found out this it what was done:
Player lost his entry fee, did not get his winnings, and received no points for the event!
Of course this player thinks it is MY fault that he signed up in a division he was not elligible for and no longer attends events that I am involved with.
So be it, if players cannot conform to the rules of play as specified by the PDGA rulebook and the SN Guidelines, we don't need them.
Same thing for another playerer who did not get to their tee on time and just played with another group. DQ'd, and MY fault again for enforcing the rules!
Dg Guy - Disc GOlf Plaques & Awards
662-660-0339
Know what you throw. . .
. . . throw what you know!
We had that happen, a players basically signed up in Amateurs when he had cashed in Advance within the new time frame. I was not aware of it at the time, as you know, things get pretty hectic during signups.
When I found out this it what was done:
Player lost his entry fee, did not get his winnings, and received no points for the event!
Of course this player thinks it is MY fault that he signed up in a division he was not elligible for and no longer attends events that I am involved with.
So be it, if players cannot conform to the rules of play as specified by the PDGA rulebook and the SN Guidelines, we don't need them.
Same thing for another playerer who did not get to their tee on time and just played with another group. DQ'd, and MY fault again for enforcing the rules!
Dg Guy - Disc GOlf Plaques & Awards
662-660-0339
Know what you throw. . .
. . . throw what you know!
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Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division? February 08, 2012 12:47PM |
Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 881 |
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Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division? February 08, 2012 01:41PM |
Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 1,425 |
Bill, what i am saying...what would you have done if he would have said he turned down his cash? ( the real issue is going from cash money down to lower divisions because that is what designates you to a professional) You did make the correct choice on that rule. Say that was the case except he cashed in pro and he said he turned down his cash for plastic...he would then be eligable to play intermediate. If the same person cashes in advanced and took plastic he is designated an advanced player....
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Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division? February 08, 2012 01:51PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 1,233 |
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Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division? February 08, 2012 01:53PM |
Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 881 |
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Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division? February 08, 2012 02:04PM |
Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 1,425 |
if an intermediate player plays pro and cashes and accepts plastic is he eligable to play in intermediate?
if the above is true...
If an intermediate player plays advanced and cashes what can he accept to still be eligable to play in intermediate?
From the information that i have seen, if you play pro and accept prizes you forfeight pro status and is eligable for your previous division correct? or is it if you accept prizes it counts as advanced?
If i show up at a tournament and say i accepted prizes in all my tournaments that i cashed, they would have to call every TD that i cashed under. That would take so much time that most TD's would not bother and i do not blame them.
if the above is true...
If an intermediate player plays advanced and cashes what can he accept to still be eligable to play in intermediate?
From the information that i have seen, if you play pro and accept prizes you forfeight pro status and is eligable for your previous division correct? or is it if you accept prizes it counts as advanced?
If i show up at a tournament and say i accepted prizes in all my tournaments that i cashed, they would have to call every TD that i cashed under. That would take so much time that most TD's would not bother and i do not blame them.
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Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division? February 08, 2012 02:16PM |
Registered: 3 years ago Posts: 702 |
Pardon my stupidity, but WHY are you allowed to say "I'll just take plastic, instead of cash"??? Winning is winning and $$$ or sponsorships PAID for the "prizes" being given in lieu of cash, so..... WHY is this allowed. Just curious........
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Teresa Key
KEY CHAINS DISC GOLF
Fort Walton Beach, FL
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Teresa Key
KEY CHAINS DISC GOLF
Fort Walton Beach, FL
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Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division? February 08, 2012 02:22PM |
Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 881 |
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Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division? February 08, 2012 02:27PM |
Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 1,425 |
KeyChains1 Wrote:
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> Pardon my stupidity, but WHY are you allowed to
> say "I'll just take plastic, instead of cash"???
> Winning is winning and $$$ or sponsorships PAID
> for the "prizes" being given in lieu of cash,
> so..... WHY is this allowed. Just curious........
exactly
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pardon my stupidity, but WHY are you allowed to
> say "I'll just take plastic, instead of cash"???
> Winning is winning and $$$ or sponsorships PAID
> for the "prizes" being given in lieu of cash,
> so..... WHY is this allowed. Just curious........
exactly
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Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division? February 08, 2012 02:33PM |
Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 404 |
dustin morris Wrote:
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> if an intermediate player plays pro and cashes and
> accepts plastic is he eligable to play in
> intermediate?
>
> if the above is true...
>
> If an intermediate player plays advanced and
> cashes what can he accept to still be eligable to
> play in intermediate?
The thing with this is that both are amature divions. In reality, advanced and amature, although one is higher than the other and takes a higher skill level to play, are looked at the same. The reason you can cash in Pro and take plastic but still play in Amature is because they are two seperate classifications. Advanced Amature and Intermediate Amature are basically the same division just with a slightly different name from a logistical standpoint.
For example, In the case of Cameron Colglazier, correct me if I am wrong, he took cash at Alabama States to keep his eligibility for Am Worlds.
At any rate, I doubt even the top Intermediate Amature will cash where top pro's are playing in a Pro Open tournament, especially in multiple tournaments. If they take prizes, they should be able to play down again as, from the logistical side, have not lost Amature status.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/08/2012 02:35PM by codyroberts18.
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> if an intermediate player plays pro and cashes and
> accepts plastic is he eligable to play in
> intermediate?
>
> if the above is true...
>
> If an intermediate player plays advanced and
> cashes what can he accept to still be eligable to
> play in intermediate?
The thing with this is that both are amature divions. In reality, advanced and amature, although one is higher than the other and takes a higher skill level to play, are looked at the same. The reason you can cash in Pro and take plastic but still play in Amature is because they are two seperate classifications. Advanced Amature and Intermediate Amature are basically the same division just with a slightly different name from a logistical standpoint.
For example, In the case of Cameron Colglazier, correct me if I am wrong, he took cash at Alabama States to keep his eligibility for Am Worlds.
At any rate, I doubt even the top Intermediate Amature will cash where top pro's are playing in a Pro Open tournament, especially in multiple tournaments. If they take prizes, they should be able to play down again as, from the logistical side, have not lost Amature status.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/08/2012 02:35PM by codyroberts18.
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Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division? February 08, 2012 02:38PM |
Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 1,542 |
Ok.
1) *amateur
[dictionary.reference.com]
2) You turn down cash to keep your eligibility. If you accept cash, you can't move back down.
If an am player moves up and cashes in advanced, that player is then advanced. Is this a hard concept to grasp?
Jamie "Massive J" Massengale
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/08/2012 02:39PM by MassiveJ.
1) *amateur
[dictionary.reference.com]
2) You turn down cash to keep your eligibility. If you accept cash, you can't move back down.
If an am player moves up and cashes in advanced, that player is then advanced. Is this a hard concept to grasp?
Jamie "Massive J" Massengale
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/08/2012 02:39PM by MassiveJ.
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Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division? February 08, 2012 02:41PM |
Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 1,425 |
MassiveJ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok.
>
> 1) *amateur
> [dictionary.reference.com]
> 00084&qsrc=2871&l=dir
>
> 2) You turn down cash to keep your eligibility.
> If you accept cash, you can't move back down.
>
>
> If an am player moves up and cashes in advanced,
> that player is then advanced. Is this a hard
> concept to grasp?
but if an intermediate moves up to pro and takes 1st and accepts plastic, he can still play intermediate?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok.
>
> 1) *amateur
> [dictionary.reference.com]
> 00084&qsrc=2871&l=dir
>
> 2) You turn down cash to keep your eligibility.
> If you accept cash, you can't move back down.
>
>
> If an am player moves up and cashes in advanced,
> that player is then advanced. Is this a hard
> concept to grasp?
but if an intermediate moves up to pro and takes 1st and accepts plastic, he can still play intermediate?
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Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division? February 08, 2012 02:41PM |
Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 881 |
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Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division? February 08, 2012 02:42PM |
Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 404 |
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Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division? February 08, 2012 03:29PM |
Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 1,425 |
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Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division? February 08, 2012 03:39PM |
Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 1,542 |
Why would a player who can cash in a higher division want to move back down?
Why would a person who's good enough to move up to pro from intermediate turn down cash?
I understand that if I play pro in SN, I can cash all day and accept money. That would mean I'm a pro in Southern Nationals.
But...
If I play a PDGA event, I can play advanced, even though I've cashed in PRO in SN and accepted cash.
Jamie "Massive J" Massengale
Why would a person who's good enough to move up to pro from intermediate turn down cash?
I understand that if I play pro in SN, I can cash all day and accept money. That would mean I'm a pro in Southern Nationals.
But...
If I play a PDGA event, I can play advanced, even though I've cashed in PRO in SN and accepted cash.
Jamie "Massive J" Massengale
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Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division? February 08, 2012 03:40PM |
Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 881 |
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Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division? February 08, 2012 03:49PM |
Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 1,077 |
Here's an example....
I play PRO in a certain wonderful Ice Bowl at which I whip the Pro Field into the MUD (nevermind how many birdies I bought for a great charitable tax break) - I WHIPPED dem boyz!!!
I go to the awards ceremony and illustrious TD hands me an envelope full of my winnings - which I gracefully request be turned over to the charity!!!
I retain my LIFETIME ADVANCED status.....and the Pros go on whining for weeks!!!!
PRICELESS!!!!!
just 'sayin'.........
I play PRO in a certain wonderful Ice Bowl at which I whip the Pro Field into the MUD (nevermind how many birdies I bought for a great charitable tax break) - I WHIPPED dem boyz!!!
I go to the awards ceremony and illustrious TD hands me an envelope full of my winnings - which I gracefully request be turned over to the charity!!!
I retain my LIFETIME ADVANCED status.....and the Pros go on whining for weeks!!!!
PRICELESS!!!!!
just 'sayin'.........
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Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division? February 08, 2012 06:47PM |
Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 404 |
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Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division? February 08, 2012 07:16PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 1,233 |
Nice move Griff.
If a player accepts Pro money, Amateur status is lost no matter what the player does with the money. If it is declined the player has no control over what is done with the money. Thankfully in Griff's example, the TD honored the "graceful request" of gift to the charity. SN plastic in lieu of money to retain amateur status can only happen once in a 6 month period. So, Leif Swenson could not do that in the SN.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/08/2012 07:17PM by Discjazz.
If a player accepts Pro money, Amateur status is lost no matter what the player does with the money. If it is declined the player has no control over what is done with the money. Thankfully in Griff's example, the TD honored the "graceful request" of gift to the charity. SN plastic in lieu of money to retain amateur status can only happen once in a 6 month period. So, Leif Swenson could not do that in the SN.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/08/2012 07:17PM by Discjazz.
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Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division? February 08, 2012 08:31PM |
Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 658 |
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Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division? February 08, 2012 08:47PM |
Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 117 |
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Re: What happens when a higher division player plays down a division? February 08, 2012 10:15PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 2,371 |
When I was told of how it went down and that he said "he didn't remember" if he had cashed in advanced, I took out my iPhone and looked it up on the Southern Nationals Stats!
BUSTED!
He had cashed in Advanced only a month earlier, gives pause to the effects of beer on the brain! He actually told my helpers that they were going to sign him up in Ams and then told me that it was their fault not his, denial all over it! Facts don't lie, and neither do I! And I just hate a lier, it just never stops, they have to keep telling lies to cover the one they just told.
Now there are a lot of Disc GOlfers out there with smart phones, the problem being that it is the PLAYERS responsibility to enter in a division that they are qualified for!
If you have to chase it down after the fact, you have no choice but to DQ the offender.
Dg Guy - Disc GOlf Plaques & Awards
662-660-0339
Know what you throw. . .
. . . throw what you know!
BUSTED!
He had cashed in Advanced only a month earlier, gives pause to the effects of beer on the brain! He actually told my helpers that they were going to sign him up in Ams and then told me that it was their fault not his, denial all over it! Facts don't lie, and neither do I! And I just hate a lier, it just never stops, they have to keep telling lies to cover the one they just told.
Now there are a lot of Disc GOlfers out there with smart phones, the problem being that it is the PLAYERS responsibility to enter in a division that they are qualified for!
If you have to chase it down after the fact, you have no choice but to DQ the offender.
Dg Guy - Disc GOlf Plaques & Awards
662-660-0339
Know what you throw. . .
. . . throw what you know!
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