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A question about the "S/N" points system.......

Posted by "JC" jose cuervo 
A question about the "S/N" points system.......
February 12, 2012 07:14AM
the question:
If a "player" volunteers to be an official/staff member for a tournament and "WORKS" to make the event better for the players that have registered and played, should they be allowed the minimum 2 points for the division they would have normally played in???
.
The reason i ask is, we are hoping to have a score keeper for each "card" all day for the Baker High School tournament and most of these will be members of the BHS disc golf team.. There are incentives in place for these workers (all of whom would really like play in the event) but i think that much like the rule/guideline for TDs to get the 2 points for running an event this should be extended to "WORKER/VOLUNTEERS"also.. These young staff members will be instructed in what is expected of them and how to preform these duties, not just score keeping but also officiate in any rules questions that may arise for their card durring the event..
.
thanks for any input reguarding this...

later,
jc "jose"

be good
have fun
____________________________________________________________
real name: james c. cannon
owner of "The MAGIC SPIRIT Bottle"
El Presidente' of TEAM D.F.L. & The JUSTICE LEAGUE (super-human disc golfers with mere mortal abilities)
Re: A question about the "S/N" points system.......
February 12, 2012 09:45AM
No. A TD puts in many hours planning the tournament, running the tournament, and posting the scores. The TD has the ultimate responsiblity for all the decisions concerning all players. While this sounds like a worthwhile training session for these students, I personally do not think it warrants giving two points to all volunteers who help at an SN event.
Re: A question about the "S/N" points system.......
February 12, 2012 11:00AM
Having a volunteer for every card is a great idea and goal. It serves sport growth in many ways. Finding incentives for that is certainly noble.

The question raised is SNQ points for volunteers. We currently award points to one (1) non-playing volunteer per event. If we did that for all volunteers a lot more people might be qualified. How would that be bad? It's a good question. It goes right to the heart of what the SN is - a tournament series in which you earn your right to play for enhanced rewards in a SNC by paying your fees and competing in a SNQ.

So the question really is, should the SNC's be something else - more inclusive? I think event volunteers, clubs and courses are more important to the sport than the SN series but the SN championships are for SNQ players. All it takes is one (1) per year. I don't see a good reason to require less. If the SN series is not about competitive SNQ play it has no unique function in the growth of the sport. Maybe we should give points to spectators too.
Re: A question about the "S/N" points system.......
February 12, 2012 11:13AM
I can't see giving points to spectators, however these would be registered individuals that are not playing but actually preforming a valuable service to promote the event, S/N series, and the sport of disc golf...
may be it is something S/N could look into in the future for those who work to make our events better as we continue to grow..

later,
jc "jose"

be good
have fun
____________________________________________________________
real name: james c. cannon
owner of "The MAGIC SPIRIT Bottle"
El Presidente' of TEAM D.F.L. & The JUSTICE LEAGUE (super-human disc golfers with mere mortal abilities)
Re: A question about the "S/N" points system.......
February 12, 2012 11:25AM
Points-for-spectators is like points-for-volunteers on steroids. Great for sport growth but eviscerating to the fundamental unique concept of the SN (play to play for more).
Re: A question about the "S/N" points system.......
February 12, 2012 05:42PM
Do you mean that these "registered individuals" have paid their fees to play in the tournament?
Re: A question about the "S/N" points system.......
February 12, 2012 09:02PM
I would have to say no, I don't want to say no, but it would open the door for someone to take advantage of it. I do understand what your saying as sometimes the volunteers work very hard for an event they choose to help out in, rather then playing in. The first year of the SN Cup I donated 3 of my dyed disc and ran a putting contest just for the volunteers.
Anonymous User
Re: A question about the "S/N" points system.......
February 12, 2012 10:53PM
Mr. Eric Day, do you agree that these volunteers should get points?

I can't see volunteers getting points... They didn't play.
Re: A question about the "S/N" points system.......
February 12, 2012 11:12PM
I couldn't see them getting points either. This would open up problems such as: A player would vounteer, get his points to be eligible for the championships but hasn't played an event that year, then play ams or something like that knowing they were a pro caliber player. There would have to be something in place, if this were to go through, to give them points for certain divisions. Also, there would always be that person who "volunteers" without doing anything useful just to get the points.

I couldn't see this being feasible although it would be rewarding for volunteers. Too many loop holes would be possible.
Re: A question about the "S/N" points system.......
February 13, 2012 01:24AM
Dillon Gourley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mr. Eric Day, do you agree that these volunteers
> should get points?
>
> I can't see volunteers getting points... They
> didn't play.


Dillon, I don't agree because it would open up a big window for someone to take advantage of it. We Don't need another issue like what happened last year at the SNPC.
Re: A question about the "S/N" points system.......
February 13, 2012 01:29PM
ok.. it was just a thought and seems like maybe NOT a good one... thanks for the input and helping me see the idea from several different sides...
i now withdraw the question and move forward on planning a great fund raising tournament for the Baker High School DGC....
.
I hope that we sell out all 60 "slots" on pre-registeration, several have already commited their entry fee to the event..

later,
jc "jose"

be good
have fun
____________________________________________________________
real name: james c. cannon
owner of "The MAGIC SPIRIT Bottle"
El Presidente' of TEAM D.F.L. & The JUSTICE LEAGUE (super-human disc golfers with mere mortal abilities)
Re: A question about the "S/N" points system.......
February 13, 2012 02:47PM
Good luck on the event! It's good to see a fund raiser for a high school team.
Re: A question about the "S/N" points system.......
February 13, 2012 03:07PM
JC,

Don't think it was a bad thought at all, in fact, I would be pro something like this. However, strict guidelines must be met for this to be seriously considered. Maybe a single point, or even leaving the awarding of points up the the TD, so anyone that was not "really working" wouldn't get points.

I think that something like this may be helpful overall and could work given the right circumstances. Maybe an apprenticeship program to get these kids setup as PDGA rule gurus.

Dustin
Anonymous User
Re: A question about the "S/N" points system.......
February 13, 2012 08:56PM
Quote
BoD Member Mr. Eric Day
I would have to say no, I don't want to say no

In my Bluff Magee voice... Eric, do you agree or not agree?
Re: A question about the "S/N" points system.......
February 13, 2012 10:46PM
As a player I would agree that's it's a good idea. As a board member I would disagree for above reasons. So you can take either answer you want.
Re: A question about the "S/N" points system.......
February 14, 2012 08:43AM
Eric,

Since you are on the BoD, i think that as a player's series, I would like to see some sort of program developed that will allow this type of system.

What quickly comes to mind would read something such as:

volunteers for tournaments that are interested in becoming a certified professional official, should log volunteer hours at respective tournaments (2 point for the first tournament, 1 point for each subsequent event). Tournament Directors who employ volunteers on this track must submit a small form that details the work involved and submit to the BoD along with tournament results and SN fees. To receive these volunteer points, they must take the PDGA test, pass, and send the results to the BoD for approval prior to registering for a championship event. At that time, the volunteer points will be added to the player's overall SN points total, notated Official/Volunteer for the record books.

Once a player receives official rules certification by the PDGA, they will earn 2 points per season to maintain that certification and volunteer their services at one event minimum per season. 2 SN points will be their maximum allowed points going forward.

This allows oversight by the BoD, takes the real issues out of the TDs hands. It does add a single layer of work for the TD, but not something overwhelming. Additionally, this will improve the level of play at SN events because Certified Officiants will be playing and can be utilized for rulings on the course.

Thoughts? I think you were on to something JC.

Dustin
Re: A question about the "S/N" points system.......
February 14, 2012 08:32PM
Does one need to be a PDGA Member to earn the official rules certification?

This is a very good idea, the idea of having more players knowing the current rules would be a great help at tournaments. I'll drop the idea off the the rest of the BOD.



dwridener Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Eric,
>
> Since you are on the BoD, i think that as a
> player's series, I would like to see some sort of
> program developed that will allow this type of
> system.
>
> What quickly comes to mind would read something
> such as:
>
> volunteers for tournaments that are interested in
> becoming a certified professional official, should
> log volunteer hours at respective tournaments (2
> point for the first tournament, 1 point for each
> subsequent event). Tournament Directors who
> employ volunteers on this track must submit a
> small form that details the work involved and
> submit to the BoD along with tournament results
> and SN fees. To receive these volunteer points,
> they must take the PDGA test, pass, and send the
> results to the BoD for approval prior to
> registering for a championship event. At that
> time, the volunteer points will be added to the
> player's overall SN points total, notated
> Official/Volunteer for the record books.
>
> Once a player receives official rules
> certification by the PDGA, they will earn 2 points
> per season to maintain that certification and
> volunteer their services at one event minimum per
> season. 2 SN points will be their maximum allowed
> points going forward.
>
> This allows oversight by the BoD, takes the real
> issues out of the TDs hands. It does add a single
> layer of work for the TD, but not something
> overwhelming. Additionally, this will improve the
> level of play at SN events because Certified
> Officiants will be playing and can be utilized for
> rulings on the course.
>
> Thoughts? I think you were on to something JC.
>
> Dustin
Anonymous User
Re: A question about the "S/N" points system.......
February 15, 2012 12:24AM
Yes. You need to be a pDGA member to take the rules test and get your OFFICIAL pDGA rules card.
Re: A question about the "S/N" points system.......
February 17, 2012 10:36AM
Eric,

Thanks for the initiative on bringing this to the full BoD. If possible, can you give us all an update on what the full BoD thinks of this?

I think it will be very easy to implement and have a huge effect on the series.

Thanks,

Dustin
Re: A question about the "S/N" points system.......
February 17, 2012 08:58PM
The idea was turned down. Some reasons are... Don't want to open any loop holes. You only need 2 points to qualify for the championships, one should be able to play in atleast one event. You have to be a PDGA member to receive official rules certification.

This may be worth looking into in the future, right now there is alot we need to get finshed up before the next elections. We have about 14 meetings left and need to finish up the new handbook, committee ideas, fix forum guidelines, end of year awards, championships, bids for new BOD members, and bid for next years championships. Plus anything else that i forgot.
Re: A question about the "S/N" points system.......
February 19, 2012 12:07AM
If you take the PDGA officials exam and pass, you receive your official card.

I believe it is $10, or it was when I took it. It has been awhile, I am not sure if you need to take it periodically or not. Think I will check into it.

Dg Guy - Disc GOlf Plaques & Awards
417-876-2197 House
417-296-6560 Cell

Know what you throw. . .
. . . throw what you know!
Re: A question about the "S/N" points system.......
March 04, 2012 10:23AM
The Point System for qualifying to play in the SNDGPC or SNDGAC is not a commodity to be used as dg bucks. Many voluteers are compensated for their time by tournament directors and that is a subject to be taken up by the tournament director whether he can offer some kind of compensation. However, the mere offer of compensation defeats the whole concept of volunteering. Whether one gets compensated or not, the motive to be a voleunteer is to help. If there is gratuity given for your time you are blessed but appreciated and thankful for none the less. We love all the volunteers and recognize their love of the sport.

As a sidebar...My personal experience of providing the beverage tent and the orange marble draw at he SNDGPC at Burns Park was nohting less than a joy for me, all at my expense and all with my time. The disc golf community is life and air for Lesa and me. We love all of you!!!
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