As both a player and a TD I will tell you that the reason I don't bother with the pDGA is that they are outrageously overpriced. I can't stand the $10 non-member fee at pDGA events. It's a ripoff and it creates literally hours of work for the TD collecting and checking membership numbers.

We are fortunate in the south to have a strong regional alternative to the overpriced pDGA. If you feel froggy and you want to dump a lot of time and money into trying to get disc golf to be recognized as a professional sport, the pDGA is okay, but let's face it most tournaments (even pDGA ones) are small events that don't need to waste time with the pDGA burdens.

As a TD, I need to advertise my tournaments if I want to attract the most players. The SN calendar is very good at attracting players within 250 miles of my location. As far as attendance, most tournaments are going to draw at least 50% of its players who live with 25 miles, and most of the rest from within about a 200 mile radius. I don't need national attention because I've actually been on the "pDGA Tour" and I know it is nowhere close to being the spectacular experience that some of these naive pDGA supporters on this thread dream and claim it is.

So, I'm very glad that I don't have to pay the pDGA a ransom to attract players to tournaments that I run.

Well-delivered Argument, Bluff. The TD perspective is the most clearly stated I've seen so far.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2012 06:18PM by T_Bo_Max.

Bluff-

Now that is a response that is worth reading!
You are stating enough facts about the PDGA that correctly explains why someone could have a problem with the them. Over priced panalties for non-members or discounts off of entry (same thing), regional turnouts based on santioning, and expensive memberships. Those are for sure a negative in the PDGA.

If I was a TD in a region where there are Zero PDGA events, then it would be difficult to justify pushing for events, memberships, and taxing your local players the $10.00.

Trackin01 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bluff-
>
> Now that is a response that is worth reading!
> You are stating enough facts about the PDGA that
> correctly explains why someone could have a
> problem with the them. Over priced panalties for
> non-members or discounts off of entry (same
> thing), regional turnouts based on santioning, and
> expensive memberships. Those are for sure a
> negative in the PDGA.
>
> If I was a TD in a region where there are Zero
> PDGA events, then it would be difficult to justify
> pushing for events, memberships, and taxing your
> local players the $10.00.


this is my main issue as well

I would like to bring more PDGA events to the south as well, but as a TD, I feel like I am only taxing the local players who are not members (which is at least 80% if not more)

I have more thoughts, but great discussion - I like keeping up with it and trying to pick up ideas

Looking through the eyes of a few TDs, they bring up great points, but as a player, I'll stick by my earlier statement, as long as the entry fee is low, I'll play in the 'nobody has ever heard of us' series as long as its a tournament and a good handful of competition will be there.

I'm not looking for players packs to raise entry fees, I'd rather no player pack with low entry fee over a player pack with a higher entry fee.

Bottom line is TDs have a very good reason not to sanction with pDGA, but I'll play any tournament that I feel is not overpriced.

Terry Zeringue

Just a thought,
What if there were no Southern Nationals. We all would be playing PDGA like the majority of other states. Example: If a pro rated SN player moves from Mississippi to Michigan, I'm guessing they would join and play PDGA events or not play. Nothing wrong with either association, just a personal preference.

If a Southern Nationals Players/Tournament Director moves to the North or any other place dominated by the PDGA events. Would he/she try to host a Southern National event and grow SN in that area? Or not even try due to the lack of support for SN in that area. For example: What would be your sales approach to a mass group of people who have never heard of the SN. Here are some questions people may ask:
What are the benefits of hosting an SN/Playing an SN event in my area? Can we join the SN? What is SN? Can my business have an advertisement on the website if I support the series?

I keep going back to how SN can benefit a business for promotion because it is a missing link in this series.

I think the SN could benefit greatly from corporate sponsorships. Even offering a revenue sharing program to clubs whose directors go out and get them by adding additional money to tournament payouts. It would also enable the SN to utilize a portion of that revenue for improving its basic services.

SN is a regional series. I could see nearby expansion to a state like Oklahoma, Missouri, Kentucky, etc . . ., but a tournament in the North (like Michigan) seems outside the realm of 'Southern.' It doesn't seem to fit into the current service model.

The SN is a better value to players who are looking for the basics - a tournament to play and a disc golf community. If a player is looking for more frills, s/he can go to the PDGA and pay for the extra services they want. It's a discount business model versus a differentiation model (higher quality, higher price).

It appears the SN community would like to stay in a discount model, but provide some additional services. Sponsors would be a good way to fund some of this.

A good td who takes being a td seriously & tries to put on quality events and not just get on a forum & talk about it will have a good payout no matter what sanction....i plan on running a pdga a-tier next year & ill show you and prove it if it happens.

2011 Adv Points Champion
2011 Am player of the year

Indiana now has 2 SN events this year. I talked these guys into hosting SN events after learning they have traveling to TN to play SN events. This is my home towns club so it was easy for me to talk to them. The point is if you move to a non SN area and the players are happy to travle, then talking them into hosting SN events to play in the SNC's is not that hard.

the SN is great for anybody, anywhere... but, the main selling point is all fees taken in, go back to the players at the SN championships

however, this is only true if you plan on attending one of the SN championships - if you live 10+ hours away and know you will not be able to attend any of the championship events - how beneficial is the SN to you then?

also, what happens a few years down the road if the SN happens to grow enough for the championship events to fill? that will then potentially exclude players who WANT to play, but might not have been able to get in (for whatever reason)

also, in revisiting the idea of not wanting to tax local players who do not want to join the PDGA - what about running tournaments where only the Adv. and Pro divisions are PDGA sanctioned?

it is typically the more casual, less competitive player who is not as interested in joining the PDGA (there are plenty of other reasons, I know), and these players typically do not play Adv. and Pro

there will certainly be Adv. and Pro players who also don't want to join the PDGA, but this should cut back on the # of non members who might want to play a given tournament, but without the non member fee

If PDGA is so bad. why not get a ratings for sn and make a goal of surpassing the pdga. its farfetched yea but dream a little

Cause the SN is a southern series as to the PDGA is the corporate governing body. They're over 25 to 30+ PDGA tournaments a weekend as opposed to the SN's 3-4 at most.

I expect three things from SNDG:

1. To act as a traffic cop to keep tournaments from being held near each other on the same weekend .

2. To provide a website for TDs to promote tournaments and post players stats, results and other useful information.

3. To establish the parameters for annual championship tournaments.

The SNDG mission should be to provide a platform for players to maximize their opportunities compete at different courses.

The PDGA is the governing body for the sport and has the greatest potential for big money, big purses, big players and big publicity. If you want the SNDG to become more like the PDGA, then join the PDGA and play in their events. The SNDG is working just fine for me.

Gary Wagoner

^^^^100% agree Gary!

___________________________________________________________________________
Keith "Sunshine" B

Why not strive to be better? Just like you should in all things in life. never settle

Quote

Why not strive to be better? Just like you should in all things in life. never settle

I think Gary's point is that the SN is better than the PDGA as is. Big Purses, Big Tournaments, and Big Players are not necessarily better, and sometimes people prefer small tournaments, with small entry fees, where you hang out with good people without the pressure of a big money tournament. That's what the SN has always been all about. (If that is not in fact Gary's point, then it can definitely be mine)

im not talking about being better than the PDGA. Im talking about just be better in general. Say you go out and play a round and you scored even. The next time you wanna beat your score right? You wanna improve your game. That simple logic can be used for the SN as a whole. Just constantly striving to be better than it already is. Never settling and say oh we reached the door. Might as well stop now. Why not push through it and continue on.

Actually, two posts back, you did say you wanted to have a goal of surpassing the PDGA. And that's fine, I think it would be great if everyone who ever went to a PDGA event was really thinking, "Boy, I wish this was a SN event". I know that's how I usually feel. However, I think the difference that you're running into is that the guys who have been around for a long time, aren't that concerned about big paydays. The SN formed because people weren't happy with the PDGA, and "improvements" like a ratings system, a fee increase, a big fancy website, and such are just following in the PDGA vision of growing a large competitive tournament atmosphere. I think we should be considering what the SN's strengths are (I think the answer is that there is a sense of commraderie that isn't as strong at PDGA events) and build upon those, not work on fixing the problems the PDGA thinks it has within its organization. To illustrate my line of thinking, if we were going to raise SN fees, it seems the money would be better spent on things that will keep players at the course longer and enhance their experience. Maybe the BOD can collect money that can be used for lunch at events, or encourage TDs to take 50 cents or a dollar from each entry fee and use it for water or a party or entertainment.

your right I did say I wanted to have a goal of surpassing the PDGA, but i didnt mean that should be our sole reason for wanting to be better. It's just a good motivation tool

Jacob Brown
University of Mobile, Mobile Al

The only way to improve SN is by increasing the amount that players receive (player packs, payouts lunches, parties, ratings, etc), not by increasing the amount that they give.

_______________________________________________________________
Justin Dyess

Overdrive Disc Golf
We buy and sell new and used discs. Check out our website.

Can't increase the amount that the players recieve with no money. We could have more benefits with more money going to the series...If the series doesn't receive more money than it does now, than we can continue to have the same results.

Or you can change the way the money is distributed and quit blowing half of it every year on the SNAC.

Dustin do you understand the SN finances? Before posting anymore could you tell us the 4 places that the SN funds are distributed and an approximate percentage of the total spent on each one? If you can't you should learn before falsely claiming this series can't be easily improved by simply changing the distribution of the SN fees.

SN could easily earn more money without getting it from the players.

_______________________________________________________________
Justin Dyess

Overdrive Disc Golf
We buy and sell new and used discs. Check out our website.

I like pizza

Jacob Brown
University of Mobile, Mobile Al

True dat contrast. Probably a lot of low-hanging fruit to be had if you know where to look.

Mike is alll over this

the money is out there, you work with a club or T.D. some tourneys

and it id pretty obvious, the money is already there

we just need to make the move

Dex

WORD!!

The series is by the players and for the players but it is the PLAYERS that must also CONTRIBUTE their time and energy to securing SPONSORS!!!

We would grow automatically if ALL players got just ONE sponsor for ONE SN event each year.....

That's not a lot of effort, but WHAT A PAYBACK it would be!! Sponsorship IS the KEY to successful tournaments.....

SPONSORSHIP of the tournament series would be WONDERFUL, but until a Sponsor can see the true benefits of Sponsorship through the experiences of itself and other sponsors, they will continue to sit on the fence.......

Dex and Bluff are rt. on pt. - the fruit is hanging low - but you still need to work the ladder to get it!!!! Griff