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Cheaters and how to resolve the issue!
Posted by Trackin01
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Cheaters and how to resolve the issue! October 02, 2012 12:06PM |
Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 1,319 |
I have decided to officially move towards multiple scorecards per group at my events. Cheaters are out there and every event has seems to have one. I have been approached by players after my events are over saying "the guy on my card cheated and we confirmed it" but this was after the event was over and I cannot do anything about it, but say look out for this person.
League play, tournament play, etc . . . it needs to be stopped.
Suggestions could be this:
Multiple scorecards *the civil approach to stopping this*
Never let that person take score *Call him out publicly so everyone knows* -the less civil approach
So, if you come to my events, expect to have multiple scorecards in your group. It's might not prevent cheating, but hopefully it will reduce it.
My .02 cents
League play, tournament play, etc . . . it needs to be stopped.
Suggestions could be this:
Multiple scorecards *the civil approach to stopping this*
Never let that person take score *Call him out publicly so everyone knows* -the less civil approach
So, if you come to my events, expect to have multiple scorecards in your group. It's might not prevent cheating, but hopefully it will reduce it.
My .02 cents
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Re: Cheaters and how to resolve the issue! October 02, 2012 12:46PM |
Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 876 |
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Re: Cheaters and how to resolve the issue! October 02, 2012 01:03PM |
Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 201 |
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Re: Cheaters and how to resolve the issue! October 02, 2012 01:06PM |
Admin Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 448 |
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Re: Cheaters and how to resolve the issue! October 02, 2012 01:08PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 1,232 |
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Re: Cheaters and how to resolve the issue! October 02, 2012 01:14PM |
Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 1,319 |
The way I state it is this: the TWO players taking scores should sit next to one another and call out scores to make sure both cards are ligit. That way everyone can see. I have noticed that when players get frustrated by getting a 5 or 4 on a hole they just say their score an don't pay attention typically in the Amateur divisions.
If the whole group hovered over the scorecard then it wouldn't be a problem, but that doesn't clearly happen.
If the whole group hovered over the scorecard then it wouldn't be a problem, but that doesn't clearly happen.
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Re: Cheaters and how to resolve the issue! October 02, 2012 01:53PM |
Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 1,077 |
Crack their skullz!!
Wait, 2 scorecards - much more civil approach.
I would suggest only that the TD announce the multiple scorecards at the player's meeting and explain what happens if:
- the 2 cards do not agree at the end of the round (likely aGroup issue - but players will need clarity on resolving same)
- both cards don't make it back to the TD (what if only one card gets turned in?)
- politely discuss descrepencies - as stated above, multiple cards can multiply confusion (i.e. group starts on hole 5. One scorekeeper correctly records scores from hole 5 on, but other scorekeeper starts the scores erroneously on hole 1 we've ALL done that)) -- the 2 cards would then not match....
just my 2 cents......
Wait, 2 scorecards - much more civil approach.
I would suggest only that the TD announce the multiple scorecards at the player's meeting and explain what happens if:
- the 2 cards do not agree at the end of the round (likely aGroup issue - but players will need clarity on resolving same)
- both cards don't make it back to the TD (what if only one card gets turned in?)
- politely discuss descrepencies - as stated above, multiple cards can multiply confusion (i.e. group starts on hole 5. One scorekeeper correctly records scores from hole 5 on, but other scorekeeper starts the scores erroneously on hole 1 we've ALL done that)) -- the 2 cards would then not match....
just my 2 cents......
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Re: Cheaters and how to resolve the issue! October 02, 2012 02:03PM |
Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 1,319 |
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Re: Cheaters and how to resolve the issue! October 02, 2012 02:05PM |
Registered: 3 years ago Posts: 3,210 |
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Re: Cheaters and how to resolve the issue! October 02, 2012 02:10PM |
Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 201 |
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Re: Cheaters and how to resolve the issue! October 02, 2012 02:45PM |
Registered: 3 years ago Posts: 3,210 |
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Re: Cheaters and how to resolve the issue! October 02, 2012 10:41PM |
Registered: 10 months ago Posts: 47 |
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Re: Cheaters and how to resolve the issue! October 03, 2012 09:11AM |
Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 876 |
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Re: Cheaters and how to resolve the issue! October 03, 2012 10:40AM |
Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 561 |
The resolution is simple and it lies with the group on the card. The player keeping score announces the hole and calls out the name of the first person on the card. That person responds loudly and clearly the number of strokes he took on the hole. The scorekeeper repeats that score for all to hear, records it on the card and continues the process for each player. People make mistakes and right then and there is the time to identify and correct them. If there is a question about the number of strokes it is fresh in everyones mind.
All players should insist on this procedure. There is absolutely no excuse for not following it. If there is someone keeping score who says, "Did everyone get a three?", I ask him to call out the names and scores individually including his own score. If the scorekeeper starts writing down scores without calling out the player's names, especially his own namd and score, that should be nipped in the bud immediately.
Any player has the right to look at the card at any time. If there is a suspicion of writing down the wrong score then the card should be reviewed after every hole. I don't understand how it is possible to cheat on recording the scores if this procedure is followed.
Gary Wagoner
All players should insist on this procedure. There is absolutely no excuse for not following it. If there is someone keeping score who says, "Did everyone get a three?", I ask him to call out the names and scores individually including his own score. If the scorekeeper starts writing down scores without calling out the player's names, especially his own namd and score, that should be nipped in the bud immediately.
Any player has the right to look at the card at any time. If there is a suspicion of writing down the wrong score then the card should be reviewed after every hole. I don't understand how it is possible to cheat on recording the scores if this procedure is followed.
Gary Wagoner
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Re: Cheaters and how to resolve the issue! October 03, 2012 01:21PM |
Registered: 10 months ago Posts: 47 |
wayneacree Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just remember, people from ALL walks of life play
> disc golf. Even those that can't count past
> three.
No offense intended, but if someone can't count past three, they should definitely NOT be playing a tournnament IMO!!!!
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just remember, people from ALL walks of life play
> disc golf. Even those that can't count past
> three.
No offense intended, but if someone can't count past three, they should definitely NOT be playing a tournnament IMO!!!!
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Re: Cheaters and how to resolve the issue! October 04, 2012 09:14AM |
Registered: 7 months ago Posts: 92 |
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Re: Cheaters and how to resolve the issue! October 04, 2012 09:32AM |
Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 1,077 |
Gary makes a great point....(as usual).....seems that approach as followed would mitigate the issues of multiple cards in a group....
I've even played with a fella (not from Memphis as I recall) that kept his own card during a tourney (which I cared nothing about) - he said he was compiling his scores and places that he played (if I recall I was either in Florence or Huntsville at the time)......
In any event CHEATERS SUCK ROTTEN EGGS!!
I've even played with a fella (not from Memphis as I recall) that kept his own card during a tourney (which I cared nothing about) - he said he was compiling his scores and places that he played (if I recall I was either in Florence or Huntsville at the time)......
In any event CHEATERS SUCK ROTTEN EGGS!!
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Re: Cheaters and how to resolve the issue! October 04, 2012 07:44PM |
Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 245 |
Like Gary said we should just make it a point to follow the rules and guidelines on tournament play including score keeping and make sure the others in your group understand as well. If its not discussed at the players meeting, bring it up to your group while waiting to start just so its known from the get go.
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Re: Cheaters and how to resolve the issue! October 04, 2012 08:06PM |
Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 561 |
804.03 Scoring
B. After each hole is completed, The scorekeeper shall call out each player's name. The called player shall answer with the score in a manner that is clear to all players of the group and the scorekeeper. The scorekeeper shall record that score and read it back, in a manner that is clear to all players of the group. If there is any disagreement about the score a player reports, the group must review the hole and attempt to arrive at the correct score.
801.01 Courtesy
C. Refusal to perform an action expected by the rules, such as....keeping score properly is a courtesy violation.
A player can not refuse to keep score properly without first receiving a warning and then a stroke for every violation. If someone were to cheat while the group followed these rules and kept and eye on the card it would be so obvious as to merit disqualification.
Gary Wagoner (quoting the PDGA rules book)
B. After each hole is completed, The scorekeeper shall call out each player's name. The called player shall answer with the score in a manner that is clear to all players of the group and the scorekeeper. The scorekeeper shall record that score and read it back, in a manner that is clear to all players of the group. If there is any disagreement about the score a player reports, the group must review the hole and attempt to arrive at the correct score.
801.01 Courtesy
C. Refusal to perform an action expected by the rules, such as....keeping score properly is a courtesy violation.
A player can not refuse to keep score properly without first receiving a warning and then a stroke for every violation. If someone were to cheat while the group followed these rules and kept and eye on the card it would be so obvious as to merit disqualification.
Gary Wagoner (quoting the PDGA rules book)
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Re: Cheaters and how to resolve the issue! October 05, 2012 06:07PM |
Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 2,110 |
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Re: Cheaters and how to resolve the issue! October 10, 2012 07:55PM |
Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 156 |
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Re: Cheaters and how to resolve the issue! October 16, 2012 06:22PM |
Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 325 |
Ive politely called someone for a stroke be4 a very legitimate one and was called a name in return and i laughed and said well since im that name add ya stroke!!!!!! Lol true story
I hate to say it but rules are rules if i follow the rules those that play in my group in tournaments sure will that i can garrantee !!!!!! true story:-)
I hate to say it but rules are rules if i follow the rules those that play in my group in tournaments sure will that i can garrantee !!!!!! true story:-)
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Re: Cheaters and how to resolve the issue! October 16, 2012 09:21PM |
Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 245 |
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Re: Cheaters and how to resolve the issue! October 18, 2012 07:32PM |
Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 325 |
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Re: Cheaters and how to resolve the issue! October 22, 2012 06:02PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 2,370 |
bryan griffin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gary makes a great point....(as usual).....seems
> that approach as followed would mitigate the
> issues of multiple cards in a group....
>
> I've even played with a fella (not from Memphis as
> I recall) that kept his own card during a tourney
> (which I cared nothing about) - he said he was
> compiling his scores and places that he played (if
> I recall I was either in Florence or Huntsville at
> the time)......
>
> In any event CHEATERS SUCK ROTTEN EGGS!!
That just might have been me! I know I have said that before, and I ALWAYS keep a personal card. I usually have it totaled before the "official" card is done and almost all the time agree with the scores called out at the end of the round!
If you follow the rules as in Garys post, you can't go wrong either!
I am just glad that 99% of all Disc Golfers are honest people, but even honest people make a mistake once in a while!
Dg Guy - Disc GOlf Plaques & Awards
662-660-0339
Know what you throw. . .
. . . throw what you know!
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gary makes a great point....(as usual).....seems
> that approach as followed would mitigate the
> issues of multiple cards in a group....
>
> I've even played with a fella (not from Memphis as
> I recall) that kept his own card during a tourney
> (which I cared nothing about) - he said he was
> compiling his scores and places that he played (if
> I recall I was either in Florence or Huntsville at
> the time)......
>
> In any event CHEATERS SUCK ROTTEN EGGS!!
That just might have been me! I know I have said that before, and I ALWAYS keep a personal card. I usually have it totaled before the "official" card is done and almost all the time agree with the scores called out at the end of the round!
If you follow the rules as in Garys post, you can't go wrong either!
I am just glad that 99% of all Disc Golfers are honest people, but even honest people make a mistake once in a while!
Dg Guy - Disc GOlf Plaques & Awards
662-660-0339
Know what you throw. . .
. . . throw what you know!
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Re: Cheaters and how to resolve the issue! October 23, 2012 08:36AM |
Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 125 |
glad someone is doing this. The last Sn tournament I went to, 18 of us called out one specific player that was tied for the lead. he kept the scorecard the entire day and kept cheating. literally all 18 of us went and told the TD's but they said they couldnt do anything about it because we told them afterwards. Not like we could pause the tournament and go complain.
Jacob Brown
University of Mobile, Mobile Al
Jacob Brown
University of Mobile, Mobile Al
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Re: Cheaters and how to resolve the issue! October 23, 2012 08:45AM |
Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 1,319 |
JBrowntown7 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> glad someone is doing this. The last Sn tournament
> I went to, 18 of us called out one specific player
> that was tied for the lead. he kept the scorecard
> the entire day and kept cheating. literally all 18
> of us went and told the TD's but they said they
> couldnt do anything about it because we told them
> afterwards. Not like we could pause the tournament
> and go complain.
It's a silly reason to win an event. Some people have no shame and continue to do it. Even good players who don't even need to cheat still somehow try to pull fast ones on people. I have found it mostly on courses where holes are longer than normal and players are throwing 4, 5, 6, 7's on a few holes. That is where you tend to find the mistakes/Cheating. My two card per group method and addressing it up front in the players meeting has really shed some light on the deal. Kind of sets the tone for "Look Out" we are watching you and I think those guys who think about cheating have second thoughts.
-------------------------------------------------------
> glad someone is doing this. The last Sn tournament
> I went to, 18 of us called out one specific player
> that was tied for the lead. he kept the scorecard
> the entire day and kept cheating. literally all 18
> of us went and told the TD's but they said they
> couldnt do anything about it because we told them
> afterwards. Not like we could pause the tournament
> and go complain.
It's a silly reason to win an event. Some people have no shame and continue to do it. Even good players who don't even need to cheat still somehow try to pull fast ones on people. I have found it mostly on courses where holes are longer than normal and players are throwing 4, 5, 6, 7's on a few holes. That is where you tend to find the mistakes/Cheating. My two card per group method and addressing it up front in the players meeting has really shed some light on the deal. Kind of sets the tone for "Look Out" we are watching you and I think those guys who think about cheating have second thoughts.
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Re: Cheaters and how to resolve the issue! October 23, 2012 02:06PM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 2,014 |
JBrowntown7 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> literally all 18 of us went and told the TD's but they said they
> couldnt do anything about it because we told them
> afterwards. Not like we could pause the tournament
> and go complain.
I guess that's 18 idiots. That's y'alls fault. If you suspect a cheater watch the score keeper write down scores, keep track of the running score and check the card every few holes, call out any discrepancies, ask the cheater to pass the card.
Memphis has a few of them
Hamilton, AL has 1
Southaven HAD 1, think he be a reformed cheater now.
Sure there are tons of pencil whippers out there, I see them mainly in the INT. division.
-------------------------------------------------------
> literally all 18 of us went and told the TD's but they said they
> couldnt do anything about it because we told them
> afterwards. Not like we could pause the tournament
> and go complain.
I guess that's 18 idiots. That's y'alls fault. If you suspect a cheater watch the score keeper write down scores, keep track of the running score and check the card every few holes, call out any discrepancies, ask the cheater to pass the card.
Memphis has a few of them
Hamilton, AL has 1
Southaven HAD 1, think he be a reformed cheater now.
Sure there are tons of pencil whippers out there, I see them mainly in the INT. division.
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Re: Cheaters and how to resolve the issue! October 23, 2012 03:45PM |
Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 125 |
Alot of us including me weren't on his card. We just heard people that were in his group say it. And since he was the group right behind us we watched him. Tallied his score then looked at it afterwards and saw it was inaccurate. Did that on just about every hole since we were held up on account of so many people there.
Jacob Brown
University of Mobile, Mobile Al
Jacob Brown
University of Mobile, Mobile Al
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Re: Cheaters and how to resolve the issue! October 30, 2012 01:52PM |
Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 182 |
I agree with Doug, multiple score cards per hole is a very easy answer. Makes for a little more tourney expense and a little more paper for the TD to deal with, but if it helps keep people honest, it's worth it.
If you can't get multiple cards at a tourney, keep your own card. Only one type of person would have any issue with someone keeping a second card....
If you can't get multiple cards at a tourney, keep your own card. Only one type of person would have any issue with someone keeping a second card....
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