This past weekend I held the Arkansas State Doubles Competition! With a last minute advertising and putting together, we didn't have a turnout like expected. However, I set ALL Amateur Divisions at the same exact price. This worked out very well with players moving up in divisions.

We had two Recreational teams sign up and a large Intermediate field sign up. When they looked at the field, I mentioned that they could play in the intermediate field and play against more players with the best part being it didn't cost them anything extra! This was very appealing to them and said "sure why not, lets give it a try."

Once the two rounds was over, one of those teams placed 2nd overall and the other placed last cash. I have decided to move all my events to this method in order to hopefully increase the moving up and eliminate the same excuse I keep hearing "I don't have the extra money to play in a higher division"

As for professionals..........I have done the same as well. Bagging in Pro's isn't an issue there, but Amateur divisions are. What do you think?

pretty good idea... makes math alot easier on TD figuring payouts as well. Way to use your head.

From a player's perspective, I've always wondered if this would help the "moving up" situation. Thanks for giving it a go and showing that this can be a possible solution for the issue of AMs taking the next step.

Doug, we started doing it in Lafayette about two years ago. All pro divisions pay the same entry fee, all am divisions pay the same entry fee and the novice and juniors pay the same entry fee. The novices and juniors are ran as "non-competitive" divisions - they pay only $10-15 to enter, receive a disc and lunch (usually feed everyone) and play for trophies only - no payout.

I like the entry fee idea. I believe you'd also have to make payout for Adv considerably better than Int to encourage more people to move up.

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Justin Tolbert
BHS Disc Golf [www.youtube.com]
Mobile, Alabama

I agree with Justin. Advanced payouts should be better than Int. Open payouts should be better than Adv......if number of competitors is comparable between divisions.

jtolbert Wrote:
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> I like the entry fee idea. I believe you'd also
> have to make payout for Adv considerably better
> than Int to encourage more people to move up.


Justin what if you looked at it like this: If all divisions were the same entry fee and all divisions had 10 players in them, the payout would be the same. But The professionals payout is higher due to the increased entry fees. Would an advanced player have incentive to move up for that?

Would an Intermediate player move to advanced based on the fact that the payout is the same and entry fee is same. I can't see a good reason for someone to move down if the payout is the same..............

However I do see your point if Advanced players are paying the same entry as all Amateur players and the payout is Higher, then people might move up to Advanced. The only way I see it being higher for a same number of players would be pay out less of the field. 50% Intermediate and 40% Advanced?

But this same entry fee really seems to benefit the Recreational vs Intermediate fields so far. I have another event coming up to test this theory.

Quote
Doug
If all divisions were the same entry fee and all divisions had 10 players in them, the payout would be the same. But The professionals payout is higher due to the increased entry fees. Would an advanced player have incentive to move up for that?

I don't believe you can compare incentive for moving from Int to Adv with the incentive for Adv to Pro. Int and Adv both play for prizes. The incentive for Pro is cash.

Quote
Doug
if Advanced players are paying the same entry as all Amateur players and the payout is Higher, then people might move up to Advanced. The only way I see it being higher for a same number of players would be pay out less of the field.

I believe Adv should pay deeper with better prizes and Int pay less. I believe we should reward the higher level of competition. If I know that Int is going to get paid 50% deep, why would I even risk being beaten in Adv? I should just stay in Int and get nearly guaranteed payout. Whereas if the payout was deeper and better in Adv, I would push myself to get more for my entry fee. Just my thoughts.

I do agree with you about the same entry fees though. I just see the payouts being another hindrance. I've been to plenty of tourneys with 40+ Int players and only 15 or less Adv players. What if we paid 20% of the Int division and 40% of the Adv division (similar to Mango [www.pdga.com]), except with 1st place in Int receiving about the same prize(s) as the last few places that cash in Adv?

Also, I've never TD'd a tournament, so I'm not trying to sound like I know it all. I've only helped with them. So I could be completely wrong with all of this, and that's ok.

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Justin Tolbert
BHS Disc Golf [www.youtube.com]
Mobile, Alabama

I personally think that the same entry fees and then padding the payout for Advanced being better than intermediate would be one step toward eleminating some bagging. If its a deeper payout in adv like Justin said, or better payout in general. But that in return may cause the borderline Adv/Pro level player to stay down even longer than they already do.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/18/2012 02:27PM by DISCKEY.

I did want to stress it has worked better in the Rec. vs Intermediate rather intermediate vs Advanced.
Some TD's take from the Amateurs and put it into the Pro's and some don't. What needs to be recognized from a TD standpoint is that, your event is filled with Amateur players. No matter how many professionals show up, there is usually more Amateur players there.

Do you start taking from the Intermdiate division and recreational division to promote Advanced players now? I do however see the incentive of it, but I am curious to see how many advanced players start to move up now that thier division is getting a bump in payout. Its a crapshoot for sure.

There are some people out there who will say "I could try out that Advanced division and it wouldn't cost me a dime more"

I like it if it is like this. say normally intermediate is 35$ and rec is 25$ . if all were 25$ im game. if all were 35$ i wouldnt be. I just signed up for the howler. in Rec just so i could even play. I literally emptied my wallet to pay the 27$. If it was 42$ like intermediate I couldnt play. If intermediate was 27$. id play intermediate.

Jacob Brown
University of Mobile, Mobile Al

no offense but if you are going broke trying to pay $30-$50 to enter a tournament. Your priorities need to be changed.

Agreed

Lol im not going broke. I only have so much money that can go towards disc golf. Which means i have my priorities intact. I never go over my limit.

Jacob Brown
University of Mobile, Mobile Al

Y'all crack me up. Browntown is old enough to decide what he wants to do with his money. You made a wise investment Browntown!

^^^^^ Agreed^^^^

In the next event that I am hosting on November 10 in Hot Springs. NPC Last Chance Qualifier I have made all Amateur divisions $30.00 and all professional divisions $45.00

This has a nice standard in my book for Amateur divisions (Not too much and Not too Cheap) The payout will be nice and no player can say "I didn't play in the upper division b/c I didn't have enough money. If they play, its because its the division they want to play in and of course I will do my best to monitor players who try and move down regardless.

Lets say a group of players come up to me near the end of the Registration and says "John Doe has played in many upper level divisions and cashed, why is he in the lower level divison" I could easily address that and move him to his proper division without costing "him the player" any extra money. I like the approach for sure.

spam

JBrowntown7 Wrote:
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> I like it if it is like this. say normally
> intermediate is 35$ and rec is 25$ . if all were
> 25$ im game. if all were 35$ i wouldnt be. I just
> signed up for the howler. in Rec just so i could
> even play. I literally emptied my wallet to pay
> the 27$. If it was 42$ like intermediate I couldnt
> play. If intermediate was 27$. id play
> intermediate.

Did you break your piggy bank too? How about steal from grandmas purse?

you know your the kind of person that i bet got beat up alot in school when you were younger . Wouldnt be suprised if it stil happened to you

Jacob Brown
University of Mobile, Mobile Al

Lol

Lol! Seriously funny (the above post!!)
I have always wondered why intermed payout was the highest and the answer was always that entrants were highest. So if entry was the same as advanced maybe divisions would even out. I'm for trying it at our tourney next year for sure. All pro was the same, why not all Am. Then payout in Adv could be higher % too.

I know mine were pretty funny.

oh totally . they were hilarious. almost as funny as believing you actually stand up to pee.

Jacob Brown
University of Mobile, Mobile Al