I was wondering what peoples thoughts are on this.
Some clubs out there would love to host an event that brought in great players, professional organization, and a payout selection that all amateurs would love, but they lack the resources to do this.

Would your club pay for a good Tournament Director?

Thought question here. Something different to talk about

Never heard of this. I think all clubs have the resources to run an event.

Dillon Gourley Wrote:
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> Never heard of this. I think all clubs have the
> resources to run an event.

An area like mine that has almost no players and no tournament supplies could use something like this. I wouldn't be willing to do it but others may...

No On the other hand you could have all the profit from the retail/whosale on the am side,player packs. It would be a gamble though!!!! How good are ya???????

I dont see why a club would do this, if you schedule an event you will get participants, and you can become a club promoter easy with innova which comes with great prices on discs. or get a vendor like skysouth to come in for merchandise. the only reason for a club to bring someone in to run an event is if they didnt have experience or were nervous about running it for the first time. but i have found that TDs love volunteers and will let you learn from them so you can run an event successfully.

Ransom-
Lets say a club is out there and hasn't developed enough money to spend on payout disc's for an event. They don't have anyone in the club who has actually hosted an event, but they would like to have one. It's easy to ask someone to host an event for you and bring merchandise for the payout. Yes that vender gets the wholesale to retail value on products sold, but what kind of rep does he/she have?

We all can agree that there are good Tournament Directors and Silly ones who think they can pull fast ones over people.

RTG- This thought question wasn't towards me, but a thought. However I do think a good TD would be worth it if there was a standard set. For example: the TD must of course provide scorecards, players cards, merchandise, advertising, promotions, a payout breakdown *50% ams, 40% Pro's in my opinion), and a professional set up. The club does the local scene like sponsorships.

I do believe people tournament directors would take pride in what they do if they were paid to do it, instead of doing something halfway *for lack of a better word*

I am about to speak about something I don't have any experience doing so this is a warning. What comes out of my mouth may be total garbage. I am considering myself warned that my opinion may be ripped to shreds and I personally insulted. Here it goes. Isn't one of the differences between a good tournament and a great tournament sponsorship? I think it would be hard for a TD to raise sponsorship if they aren't local.

I can see where it could be helpful to a small area but if they are going to get sponsorships that could be their starting capital to purchase merchandise. then when entry fees come in they can replace the money spent from the sponsorship money. also skysouth has sent us merchandise upfront and let us pay after the event so we didnt need any money to start.

dont take what i am saying the wrong way i like your idea i just dont think it is practical for someone to come into an area and run an event. you could be a consultant to the local club on how to get events started i think that would be a better way to promote and grow the sport.

I like what your saying here about skysouth, but I am thinking you were close enough to pick your up front merchandise from Jim and could bring it back to him once done?

What about those clubs that are really far away? I doubt skysouth would send an up front package deal to a club 3 states away and hope they pay up. Especially if Jim hasn't met them before. Regardless, it would be a big risk on Jim's part right? However I like the idea.

Sponsorships: if they get sponsorships they can have overhead. They can purchase disc's for the event, then they have leftover for later in the club. What if they didn't want to fool with all of that and wanted a variety of options at the event? Lately I have seen regular Amateur players at my events who struggle trying to find what they want b/c they already have what they want. So, what have they started to buy? Shirts, Hats, DVD's, Bags, Bag Straps, Chairs, etc . . . . Things most tournaments don't offer, unless you have a vender.

Dylan- Your correct it is hard for a TD to raise money when your not from there, but it can be done. I host the NPC Championships in Russellville, AR which is 1hr 30min away from me. I can't physically be in that town asking for help, but I make phone calls and make deals. That has helped alot. The courses are great to host a championship on and thats why it is there.

i was using skysouth as an example, the local club could use their local vendor for merchandise. i see what you are saying to make it easier on the club and have someone come in with everything needed in hand and run the event would be much easier on the local members. the local club would just have to calculate what they would gain against what they would lose from having someone come in and run the event.

i still say pay someone to be a consultant to the event until they get use to how things run and how they would like to customize their events.

again i do like where you are going with this.

I think you need to consider what a roving TD would want to get paid. If you consider the time involved even at a modest rate of say $20/hr, I'm thinking a professional TD would want around $800-1000 even for a C-tier caliber event. Would additional volunteers needed to run the event be willing to volunteer if the TD is getting paid that amount? If not, then additional money might be needed to cover their expenses like lunch, T-shirts and tournament stamped discs to encourage their participation.

In my opinion TD's should not make money period. I stand by that and will continue to stand by that. TD's should want to run events because they love the game not to line their pockets.

Any revenue earned on any event should go right back to the tournament payout or to the club in the hopes to raise disc golf awareness in that area. Sponsorships can be earned through local buisnesses interested in donating that money to that event. Anyone under the sun (wherever they are from) can help raise the money needed for said tournament. How succesful they are at raising that money is completely up to whoever is calling for that sponsorship.

I dont think paying TD's is the answer (i know ALOT of people are not going to like hearing that). Tournamnet Directors should do this to raise revenue for the SN and or the local club that needs that revenue to raise said disc golf awareness.

I truly think there is a question here that does need to be answered:

How do we in the SN create qualified TD's in any given area?

Answer:

Maybe its time for the SN to have a workshop that covers all of the ins and outs of running a tournament. This way we can have several qualified TD's rather than just the assumption that we dont have but a few. Just a thought. How we come up with a workshop and/or format to teach people how to run a succesful event would be what needs to be worked out, not making sure that the ones that are qualified get paid.

These are just my thoughts, go ahead and let the feedback roll in. Some may not like what i said but i stand by it. Play tournaments because you love to, run tournaments because you love to. If you play or run tournament because you think you will make money......you are doing it for the wrong reason.

Lecy

I like the idea of workshops for training Td's as well as some understood standard of expectations for a tournament if it is going to be SN. People then won't travel hours to a tournament and be disappointed by how it is run because there will be a standard of what to expect. What that standard should be I believe is what the board should provide with the help of players and TD's if they desire it.

Well then lets try and look into a workshop or a format of some sort. The SN has some great TD's and they need to be recognized for their ability to run awesome events. Maybe the BOD can come up with a format...an easy to read format that says step 1 do this step 2 do this....etc. It could be on a spreadsheet or on the SN website (maybe a forum page like this). This way people interested in running events can have this step by step method......

Lecy

In reply to Lecy

[www.sndg.org]
This thread was started a while back and has alot of good info on it, I think passing this thread on to new TD's would be a good start.

Eric is that thread public, i cant access it.

Dirtyoljim Wrote:
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> In my opinion TD's should not make money period. I
> stand by that and will continue to stand by that.
> TD's should want to run events because they love
> the game not to line their pockets.



Agreed!

I cant get onthe thread either. I guess i need permission :(

Lecy

Sorry guys I thought that was a public forum, I moved it to General discussion and bumped it.

YES!!! Who wants to The Howler for us?

Sometimes the best things in life cost a little bit more than the free things. Sometimes the best tournaments are ones where the TD is properly compensated for his time.

Think of it this way...would you rather watch a free junior high football game or would you rather pay something to watch the best professional teams in action? The pro players aren't going to go to work for free. So why would you expect the very best TDs to work for free? If the TD does a great job and everyone loves the event, what's the big deal if he made a buck? Are you going to not come back the next year? If you don't you'll just end up wishing you did.

It's like Quality P. You always have to pay for the best Quality P one way or another. But it's worth it.

Speaking as a TD who has, at times ran up to 15 events in a year and been doing it for well over ten years, there is no way I could ever run one for nothing. It is such a crap shoot as it is with weather and wondering if there will be a good field show up to play. There are so many expenses incurred to just put one on.

I have never been given the prizes, supplies, awards, and gas to hold an event.

Perhaps if somone was to give me a ride there, have EVERYTHING I needed to run the event, you could MAYBE do a freebee!

Pencils cost around $7 a box, the leaderboard is around $100, Awards are not free unless you do not have them, prizes have to come from somewhere too!

I have anywhere from $10,000 to $20,000 worth of merchandise I take to each and every event, not counting another $20,000 or so for the trailer and a vehicle to pull it!

It would be like going to work at your regular job and not getting paid for it. How long could you handle that?

Dg Guy - Disc GOlf Plaques & Awards
662-660-0339

Know what you throw. . .
. . . throw what you know!

I've never understood why people think a TD should do an event for nothing. Lots of work and frustration shouldn't go unrewarded. They sacrifice a lot of time and money and they should get something for it.

I wish they made more money off tournaments. Then there would be more tournaments...

I need to work on not being so closed minded. I apologize for sounding like a bullheaded person in my previous post. Those of you that know me know i am open to ideas and that i have the mentalitly of : If it makes sense then lets do it. So again i apologize if i offended anyone, I just think its better for DG in general for TD's to do these events for the love of the game and not profitablity.

To me being a vendor for an event is totally different than paying for a TD. Now dont get me wrong sometimes i am wrong and i am a big boy that can admit it when i am. I think it would change the perception that some TD's have about others that want to run events....you know what im talking about "oh he's running the event so its going to not be succesful" or "he dosnt know what he's doing so it will fail".

If we had an outline of sorts to teach others how to do this then it would make for a better SN and a better perception that we have many capable bodies that can run many succesful events. Maybe the SN could come up with an incentive for those TD's that have succesful events. Perhaps a TD of the year award that has monatary incentive, or free entry into the SNC of their choice, etc.....? This way the SN could show their apprecciation for the people that make the series go? I dont know just kicking around ideas. DG GUY-- no i would not go to work for free, but disc golf is not a job for me it is a game/sport that is made for fun. Like i said if i am wrong then i can admit it, just change my mind.

Lecy

I have played in some tournaments that were obviously money makers for the TD. Making some money(is OK IMO) vs making the players hate you for pricing base plastic at a 400% markup over wholesale in the payout is something I have experienced. The SN needs to make sure that players NEVER get treated like that. There should be a set rule about retail value of prizes for every tournament in the SN.
Those are two different examples, and I have seen both. Some TD's really care about the players, and treat them like they want to be treated.
While others, just look for an excuse to try and line their pockets, while posting winnings and retail values that are a farce...at best.


I choose to play or not play in tournaments based on the TD and their history with players and how well they treat them. I don't need or want any more plastic, but don't give me a dx disc and call it more than $10. They are 7.99 at almost ALL retail outlets. Add tax, and it is still under $9.
Discgolfcenter.com(free shipping) prices retail at:
DX=7.99
Pro=10.99
Champion=13.99
Star=15.99
I Dye pro=14.99
I Dye Champion=17.99
Echo star=16.99
CFR champion Glow=19.99
Star TFR=19.99

Also Walgreens in Southaven carries a whole bunch of Innova at those same retail prices.

My 2 cents on the topic.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2012 08:40AM by wayneacree.

Well Wayne you need to come to my tournaments. I price dx at 8$ pro $11 ch $13 and star $15

Because Champion plastic for 17 is outrageous. And there are TD's in SN that have charged that and charged the stated prices above($14) for USED champion plastic! Good point Wayne!

$17 is what INNOVA's MSRP is! However I don't charge that much, but it is a far cry from "outrageous". It also costs extra to custom stamp discs. & before you all get high & mighty talking about whetehr a TD should vend or make money off of a tourney they run. Keep in mind that you must buy plastic from someone. Why not the person that is doing all of the work? As long as they are fair & reasonable prices of course.