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tds being paying themselves

Posted by Brad Wells 
tds being paying themselves
January 08, 2013 12:14AM
I personally dont have issue with Td's compensating themselves. I would like to get other peoples thoughts, sorry if this topic has been talked bt before. I want to thank all TD's step up and run events(it is a totally thankless job and lord knows you ain't gonna make everyone happy)!
Re: tds being paying themselves
January 08, 2013 03:55AM
Brad, I would never do it.

If a vendor hosts a tournament or an individual runs an event out of their own pocket, I would have no problem with them making a few bucks off the retail markup of merchandise used for payout.

I expect that 100% of tournament sponsorship gets put towards the tournament under all circumstances, regardless of who hosts/TDs the event.
Re: tds being paying themselves
January 08, 2013 07:48AM
People will have many different opinions on this issue for sure. In the end, TD's need to be compensated if possible. There are events out there that take so much time an effort to host/run. I wish there was a better incentive to TD the SN Championships. Do you think any of the Championships would be slightly upgraded from a TD's stand point if the BOD agree to use a portion of the leftover money and pay the TD or TD's? A TD who is doing it for the "love of the game" as a volunteer has only so much motivation. Get a great TD who can do a great job.........pay them.
If you haven't been a TD and worked on all of the behind scenes to print scorecards, players cards, set up a course, work on payout, organize hole sponsorships, gathering sponsors, lunch, etc . . . . then try it before you post here. It's such a different experience to be a TD rather than a player. The experience can be an eye opener.
Re: tds being paying themselves
January 08, 2013 08:43AM
Trackin I have never TD or prob ever will, but I appreciate the people that do. I think if nothing else a Tip Jar should be available if you like showing your appreciation tip the Td! Well said on your above post.
Re: tds being paying themselves
January 08, 2013 08:51AM
I am hosting my 1st tournament in over a year this weekend. I started preparing for the event in August 2012. If you are going to run a top tier event it takes at least 6 months to prepare all the aspects of the event. I am different in being my help comes from my family and friends. I don;t think making a lil money off an event is wrong. I don't make anything off the events I run, but I mainly run events that help others out so the money is needed more for them. I am not making anything off the event this weekend, but I am not coming out of pocket for anything. Back in the early 90's Dicky Harris ran events in Baton Rouge and when he posted his play out he took 10% off the top of the event. If the event had 1k in entry fees and sponsorship he took 100.00. I know a lot of people back then was not happy with that, but he was up front with it, so if you are up front with what you are doing people can decide if they want to come or not.

___________________________________________________________________________
Keith "Sunshine" B.
Rumble in Ragley, version 1.0
15 November 2014
Field limited to 90 players
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2013 08:53AM by Keith Bodin.
Re: tds being paying themselves
January 08, 2013 03:03PM
Good point, Keith.
Re: tds being paying themselves
January 09, 2013 06:39PM
I agree with Jaques, I have a lot invested to put on an event, anyone who knows me knows this is a fact. A 20 foot trailer fitted out for merchandizing and making my plaques, lots of inventory, and a vehichle to pull it. Well over $30 investment!

I also agree that all sponsorship money is not to be messed with, it cose to the event. My only exception here is the 18 by 24 corplast sponsor signs I make for e the new sponsors.

I do make the difference between wholesale and retail, for sure. And every once in a while I sell a collectable that has appreciated in value over the years I have been carrying it around.

Still no big money has been made even though I have been accused of "making $4,000 off of ONE person EVERY event I run!

I wish, hell Id'd be running events every weekend and every other Wednesday. . . .

Dg Guy - Disc GOlf Plaques & Awards
662-660-0339

Know what you throw. . .
. . . throw what you know!
Re: tds being paying themselves
January 09, 2013 09:26PM
I don't have a problem with Td's being composited for their efforts as long as there is total disclosure. Disclosure is good for accountability and for the golfers to discide if the payout that is left is worth it for them. I am so thankful for Td's that do it for the love of the sport like Jaques. Every Lafayette tournament I have been to has been worth the entry and then some and then some more. Is there a size that a tournament could grow to that would cause some of you Tds that are against being compensated to reconsider? 200-300-500-1000 players? I am super grateful to all the Td's you guys.
Re: tds being paying themselves
January 09, 2013 11:05PM
Great post everyone! Thank y'all for TDing
Re: tds being paying themselves
January 10, 2013 09:31AM
i have td'd several tournaments and have never made a penny. i'm pretty sure it cost me many pennies but that is my contribution.

Re: tds being paying themselves
January 10, 2013 09:52AM
My first and only tournament was the 2009 Howler. I could've taken about $500 for running that tournament and felt completely justified. Running a large tournament ain't no joke :) Instead, I got 4 discs and a T-shirt and was absolutely okay with that. I think a scale based on tournament size or percentage of entry fees taken out for TD expenses would be fine as long as it was stated well in advance.
Re: tds being paying themselves
January 10, 2013 10:57AM
The reason I started this thread is it seams people are always questioning payouts. Tds in return are having to defend themselves therefore starting heated debates. I personally don't care how big or small payouts are.(that is if I'm lucky enough to cash). I attend events nowa days because of the friendships I have developed that this great game has brought me. Tds that don't take dime, I applaud you. Tds that compensate themselves be fair about. I don't have the answer as to what is fair or not, I do ask players to thank the Tds for their time n effort, then question their payouts LOL!
Re: tds being paying themselves
January 10, 2013 11:32AM
TD's getting paid will lead to higher payouts. Win-Win scenario in my opinion.

_______________________________________________________________
Justin Dyess

Overdrive Disc Golf
We buy and sell new and used discs. Check out our website.
Re: tds being paying themselves
January 10, 2013 12:11PM
Td's getting paid is taking from the payout......
Re: tds being paying themselves
January 10, 2013 12:18PM
Valid point Dustin. But what if said event didn't take place because that TD didn't Td it? You wouldn't have a payout at all.
Re: tds being paying themselves
January 10, 2013 12:53PM
Yes but TD's do not need to make a living off of running events in my oppinion.
Re: tds being paying themselves
January 10, 2013 12:56PM
$100 profit is hardly making a living... Unless your hosting events in 3rd world countries...
Re: tds being paying themselves
January 10, 2013 01:03PM
You are right hudd, but not everyone just makes $100. Now if you hit the $1000 mark...its a different story.
Re: tds being paying themselves
January 10, 2013 01:12PM
If a tip jar is on the TD table, would u put money in it? General question.
Re: tds being paying themselves
January 10, 2013 01:19PM
just depends on the event.
Re: tds being paying themselves
January 10, 2013 01:23PM
I would rather have the td composited from my entry fee. I wouldn't begin to know what he felt like he was due or what would be an appropriate tip.
Re: tds being paying themselves
January 10, 2013 01:29PM
To be honest guys...........It doesn't matter how much the TD makes on either event. If your payout, tournament payout is Good, then who cares. What is sounds like is if players know that a TD made a $1000 then the greed comes out and they seem to say " Well that could have been added to the tournament" Again, if the payout was Good, then let the TD make his money.

If a TD was making $1000 on an event, I bet you he is going to put a ton of effort into that event! If he doesn't, then it will show up for sure! Think about it. Thumbs up to the TD's out there who spend countless hours, late nights, and long days on the computers, with sponsors, at the courses, online promoting, etc . . . . It's such a relaxing time when I myself can just travel to an event and just wake up that morning to play instead of 4 hours before tee off setting up and getting it ready.
Re: tds being paying themselves
January 10, 2013 01:39PM
Again well said Trackin! Dustin why the event? Or is it you want to know who the TD is? Dylan its what u feel like, maybe 1 or 2.
Re: tds being paying themselves
January 10, 2013 01:52PM
I have TD'd events both Club events and charity. I never got paid for any of it - I considered it volunteer duty as an officer of the Club and as a player who loves our sport - it was done for the kids (St. Jude's) and out of appreciation of the host family (the Daniels) - and in some cases, out of necessity (no one else would TD the event)....

I do not mind the idea of a TD tip jar (not sure what $$ you'd generate)
I do not mind a couple bucks of entry going to the TD - if it is clearly advertised as such

What I DO mind is seing retail product marked up significantly over wholesale cost when it comes to paying out the Ams...I believe SN should standardize the amount a vendor can charge at an SN event for certain types of plastic (not talking about collectibles - just the values of payout merchandise) - if the SN was to do that, I believe transparency and accounting would follow and thus ranting would be more limited.

just my 2 cents.....Griff
Re: tds being paying themselves
January 10, 2013 02:12PM
You are right tracking. What if the TD made over $1000, had $1000 added cash, and then did not even payout the same amount as entry? I have not been a TD of an event, but when you put sponsorship money into your pocket, thats just bad in my opinion. I might be looking at it in a completely wrong perspective.

Trackin01 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To be honest guys...........It doesn't matter how
> much the TD makes on either event. If your payout,
> tournament payout is Good, then who cares. What is
> sounds like is if players know that a TD made a
> $1000 then the greed comes out and they seem to
> say " Well that could have been added to the
> tournament" Again, if the payout was Good, then
> let the TD make his money.
>
> If a TD was making $1000 on an event, I bet you he
> is going to put a ton of effort into that event!
> If he doesn't, then it will show up for sure!
> Think about it. Thumbs up to the TD's out there
> who spend countless hours, late nights, and long
> days on the computers, with sponsors, at the
> courses, online promoting, etc . . . . It's such a
> relaxing time when I myself can just travel to an
> event and just wake up that morning to play
> instead of 4 hours before tee off setting up and
> getting it ready.
Re: tds being paying themselves
January 10, 2013 02:16PM
I do agree with your last part of your post Mr Griffin, although I don't play in a am division. As far as what money would be collected in a tip jar, depends on how well liked the TD is I'm guessing.
Re: tds being paying themselves
January 10, 2013 02:37PM
What I DO mind is seing retail product marked up significantly over wholesale cost when it comes to paying out the Ams...I believe SN should standardize the amount a vendor can charge at an SN event for certain types of plastic (not talking about collectibles - just the values of payout merchandise) - if the SN was to do that, I believe transparency and accounting would follow and thus ranting would be more limited.
-Griff

I agree with you on this issue. I currently do not carry my own merchandise and choose not to cause I don't want to store it at home. I go through our local disc golf store who has overpriced discs for sure. We agree on a split the profit from the discs, but instead of me making my profit, I cut the price down to the average disc price on the market.

Example: their price for a champion disc: $16.99 So instead of me selling them at that price I do a tournament price and sell them at $15.00 while the company makes the larger profit. I do it this way so players won't look at me and say "that TD is inflating the prices!!!! and making tons of money"
Anonymous User
Re: tds being paying themselves
January 10, 2013 02:45PM
Mississippi is home to the greediest, money pocketing TDs in the SN. Tony Bass takes the cake, but at least he puts his down on paper and everyone can see it, LOL.

$600 for a $100 trophy
few hundred dollars for a hotel suite for the weekend 30 minutes away from his house...
gas to get to his hotel suite from his house, etc...

Then we got one TD who paid out every field & cashing player at a recent tournament with DX and pro plastic valued at $11 ea. , a 165g. pink DX Birdie, just what I always wanted in my ADV. payout...

Then we got this one guy who raises over a grand and pockets nearly all of it. Then he takes out 1-2$ club fees of which he is the only member of the non exsistent club...

I would tip a GOOD TD, $5 or so. I also don't mind a TD making money off of an event as long as THEY ARE HONEST AND UPFRONT ABOUT IT and doesn't make for a poor payout.
Re: tds being paying themselves
January 10, 2013 02:59PM
If I think of a TIP Jar, it brings back the days when I used to wait tables. For me when I go out to eat, I tip well...........mainly b/c I used to wait tables and know how it is. I never tip less than $5 and always tip 15-20% especially if the service is worth it.

The part that Dustin said about club fees...........just turn that into tournament fees and there you go. In my events, I have paid most of the expenses from my pocket. Printing, tee signs *I make myself from my printer and staple them to the make your own yard sale sign from walmart $4.50" I invested in those and re-use them each event. I went to a printing company and bought 1000's of custom scorecards to use at all of my event, but I also make my own for special events. However these things are expensive if you do it many times over.

When it comes to payout, I used to make my own payout for the Amateurs when I first started hosting events. Then I moved away from that and did the pick your own payout. It has gone over much smoother. The dumb thing I did was allow everyone to come pick their stuff at once. I learned that letting the Champions pick first 3 at a time, might take a bit longer, but runs way smoother.
Re: tds being paying themselves
January 10, 2013 03:11PM
Not sure, but I might be disagreeing with Griff a little, which I rarely do. I think the SN series wants that $2 per head and to insure fair competition and should otherwise let the market be free. That means not being otherwise involved in the finances of SNQ's.

I have heard that some TD's have a jacked up retail price on payout merchandise. Of course I am against that but I think the market has a solution for it.

Even though I think the SN should sanction regardless of payout it is almost never bad to require disclosure. Therefore, if the SN really needs to be involved in payout pricing, I would suggest that we set a maximum retail price on the various types of payout plastic that can be charged without advance notice. That would allow players to know the money deal they are getting into without dictating the TD's finances or unduly discouraging SN sanctioning. While the SN is a great value a TD can have an event and make money on it without sanctioning.

I also think there is enough difference between typical retail (even low side retail) and wholesale for a TD to make money without tapping into entry fees, sponsorships or tip jars. I've never made a dime personally as a TD but I'm not against it and our club has made money when I was the TD that the club later used to build, maintain and improve courses. I think that is the business model we should keep.
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