Alabama   •   Arkansas   •   Florida   •   Georgia   •   Kentucky   •   Louisiana   •   Mississippi   •   Oklahoma   •   Tennessee   •   Texas
Welcome! » Log In » Create A New Profile

Dustin LeMasters Rule Question

Posted by shane 
Dustin LeMasters Rule Question
April 22, 2013 09:14PM
At the SN Cup in Jackson, there was a rule that I thought I knew placed in doubt by Dustin LeMasters from Fort Walton Beach. A player's disc landed on the in bounds side of a painted OB line. The player began to mark their lie with the standard 1 m relief perpendicular to the OB. Dustin stated that the rule had changed and that if the player could take a legal stance from the lie, he could not relocate the lie up to 1 m from the OB line. Dustin was pretty adamant about the rule and stated that it was on his official's exam. I confess that I do not spend as much time as some on the rules, but it I felt it difficult to argue given that he stated he had just had that question on the test and that Snappy had called him on it in the past. I have looked for the rule on the PDGA site, but can't find it.

Dustin if you are reading this, could you point me to the rule stating that you can not relocate your lie up to 1m from the OB line? Or anyone else for that matter? I just want to make sure and play this correctly in the future. In this case we played the lie both ways and asked the TD after the round.

Shane

Transparency of information breeds self correcting behavior!
Re: Dustin LeMasters Rule Question
April 22, 2013 10:16PM
I too have looked for this rule since the SN Cup and can't seem to find it in the new PDGA Rule booklet. Really would like to see where this is stated so the right call can be made for future reference.
Re: Dustin LeMasters Rule Question
April 22, 2013 10:48PM
802.03
D. If the position of the thrown disc is in-bounds but within one meter of an out-of-bounds line, the lie may be marked
by placing a mini marker disc on the playing surface at any point on a one-meter line that extends perpendicularly from the nearest point on the out-of-bounds line and passes through the center of the thrown disc, even if the direction takes the lie closer to the target. For the purpose of marking the lie, the out-of-bounds line represents a vertical plane.
Anonymous User
Re: Dustin LeMasters Rule Question
April 23, 2013 12:03AM
Good question, the rule seems kinda odd. I mean, couldn't you just move your other leg back a fw eet and then it wouldnt be a legal stance since your back leg would then be OB?

Also on rule changes , you can now throw your disc after the 2 minute warning
Re: Dustin LeMasters Rule Question
April 23, 2013 12:43AM
That is the rule I found on this, but I am still unable to find anything close to the rule that Dustin LeMasters described at the SN Cup. I think he may have misunderstood the actual rule that Solomon brought up.
802.03
D. If the position of the thrown disc is in-bounds but within one meter of an out-of-bounds line, the lie may be marked
by placing a mini marker disc on the playing surface at any point on a one-meter line that extends perpendicularly from the nearest point on the out-of-bounds line and passes through the center of the thrown disc, even if the direction takes the lie closer to the target. For the purpose of marking the lie, the out-of-bounds line represents a vertical plane.

This ^^^^^^^ is the only thing I could find relating to ones lie and the OB lineage marking.
Re: Dustin LeMasters Rule Question
April 23, 2013 05:05AM
There is no rule preventing you from relocating your lie up to 1m from OB regardless whether you can take a stance without moving it. And you still are not allowed to have any part of your stance touching an OB surface at the point you release your throw. 802.04B(3)
Re: Dustin LeMasters Rule Question
April 23, 2013 09:46AM
Two minute warning: competition manual section 1.5 b 1. Conrad Damon indicated on his web site that practice throws would be allowed after 2min warning. However according to rules first practice shot after 2 mn warn receives a warning, stroke there after. 1 meter rule from ob hasnt changed n the last 20 years I've been playing. Dustin is confused.
Anonymous User
Re: Dustin LeMasters Rule Question
April 23, 2013 11:03AM
Who is Conrad Damon?

I read on the PDGA website the major rule changes for 2013 that you could throw after the 2 minute warning?
Re: Dustin LeMasters Rule Question
April 23, 2013 11:27AM
I've heard that dillon but have not seen it on the PDGA site

The 2013 competition manual says this and this is directly from it

(1) Shotgun Starts (rounds where several groups start simultaneously): At a scheduled time, scorecard(s) shall be distributed to
the players at Tournament Central. After the cards have been distributed, groups shall be given adequate time to reach their assigned teeing areas. A loud noisemaker, such as an air horn, shall be used to
indicate that there are two minutes remaining until tee off. This signal shall
be a series of two short blasts. At this
time, players are to end practice and all practice shots and move promptly to their teeing areas. A throw by a player between the two minute signal and the start of the round shall receive a warning if observed
by two or more players or an official. After being warned, subsequent throws by
the player during this period, if observed by two or more players or an official, shall result in one penalty throw added to the player's score, regardless of the number of throws. An extended blast of the noisemaker begins the round and signals the scorekeepers to call the throwing orders.
Re: Dustin LeMasters Rule Question
April 23, 2013 03:12PM
Conrad Damon = Head of PDGA Rules Committee
Re: Dustin LeMasters Rule Question
April 23, 2013 04:00PM
OP and ^

This just goes to show how rules can get interpreted and misconstrued into something beyond the original intent of the rule. I can tell you the number of times I witness real live foot faults because all these rec/am/local pros think they can putt like the real pros and jump put when they're more then obviously in the air while their arm is still curled back going forward for the release and are almost about to land before the disc "leaves their hand" much less the leaving their hand before their foot leaves the ground part. 98% of the suck at jump putting and rarely come close so it's typically not a big issue unless they themselves are big rules sticklers. I try to play as best I can by the rules as I know them and try to get most on my cards to do the same. doing it for a whole field when I can see the guys in front of us that's holding us up on every hole 6+" in the air before he putts the disc is silliness but generally accepted in the SN parts. Heck I was just informed about the "no supporting parts being OB while making a shot rule at the smackdown. I probably read it but just glossed it over and it didn't register that if I'm throwing from a knee that my back foot can't be touching the ground OB.

I heard someone talking about the rule Dustin mentioned around Ferry Park one day, I've looked a couple times and honestly waiting on someone to call me on it as I typically have a rule book in my bag and maybe then I can get them to show me where it is if it's worth the ~10-~15 min or longer it takes to squabble over the +/- 30" it may or may not gain me.

I'm sure Conrad may have wanted that to make the rule book, bottom-line ... it may not have made the 2013 edition. If it's not in print, it's not a rule. That
Re: Dustin LeMasters Rule Question
April 23, 2013 04:11PM
The difference in the one meter relief from O.B. is that you don't have to take the WHOLE meter... now, like in ball golf you have the option of where you place your mark. So if it is more advantageous you can take less than a meter (hole or mound ...etc.). this mimics the drop rule in ball golf.
Re: Dustin LeMasters Rule Question
April 25, 2013 10:14AM
I have been in 2 heated arguments during rounds about this rule, both being in Mobile. I was told that I could move my disc, but as long as it wasn't closer to the hole in one of them. The other told me that I only was able to use the rule if my disc was out of bounds.

The thing was I already knew the rule by heart, and even read it to the two gentlemen. One allowed it, but didn't think i was right, the other refused to let me use the rule. The problem I had was that I read the rule straight from the rulebook. At that time the rulebook stated:

(this might not be word for word, but it's pretty darn close). A lie that is within 1 meter of an OB line may be moved up to 1 meter perpendicular from the nearest OB point even if it brings you closer to the basket.

This is used many times, especially when a basket has OB behind it on a shorter hole. Players sometimes like to make an ACE Run at the basket, knowing that if they go OB they could still get an easy par.

Other rules people don't realize that one could use to their advantage is the lie if thrown OB rule. You may elect to rethrow from previous lie if you throw disc OB, or take a stance up to 1 meter from disc was last IB. Player misses a 25 ft putt and disc rolls down hill into water, player may attempt that 25 ft putt instead of the 45 ft uphill putt. Or if disc goes into water behind a massive tree, the previous lie my be a better option than having a stance behind a tree.

The Up to a Meter In EVEN if it takes you closer to the basket rule has been in effect as long as i can remember,,,,,,,, 2000? 1996? something like that, and I can never remember it being changed in the changed rules section of any rulebook.

Does the pDGA give a rulebook to every member everytime they renew membership? If not,, they should, if they do, then good for them (more people need to read it)

Terry Zeringue
Re: Dustin LeMasters Rule Question
April 25, 2013 01:48PM
TheZinger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does the pDGA give a rulebook to every member
> everytime they renew membership? If not,, they
> should, if they do, then good for them (more
> people need to read it)


Terry,
Therein lies the problem. MOST, or at least a majority of the mobezzy crew aren't PDGA members. I'd say that a vast majority of folks in SN "tournament land" aren't. Those in outlying areas that have a fair number of PDGA tournaments may be but they are the exception not the rule. MANY of these rules are passed via "word of mouth" NOT by actually reading the rule AND get misconstrued or otherwise misquoted which only perpetuates itself as the "rules" travel from one person/group to the next. Then they'll STILL try to argue you down when you have it in black and white on paper because "so and so said it and he's the local pro so it MUST be true" or "you're not reading in the right place" ... seriously??? Anyway, that's exactly why I typically have a rulebook and rules of tournament play book in my bag somewhere. If they still argue it, I play it both ways then have them try to explain their misunderstanding of the rules to the TD.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/2013 01:50PM by Joe_Kool.
Re: Dustin LeMasters Rule Question
April 25, 2013 07:22PM
Joe_Kool Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TheZinger Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Does the pDGA give a rulebook to every member
> > everytime they renew membership? If not,, they
> > should, if they do, then good for them (more
> > people need to read it)
>
>
> Terry,
> Therein lies the problem. MOST, or at least a
> majority of the mobezzy crew aren't PDGA members.
> I'd say that a vast majority of folks in SN
> "tournament land" aren't. Those in outlying areas
> that have a fair number of PDGA tournaments may be
> but they are the exception not the rule. MANY of
> these rules are passed via "word of mouth" NOT by
> actually reading the rule AND get misconstrued or
> otherwise misquoted which only perpetuates itself
> as the "rules" travel from one person/group to the
> next. Then they'll STILL try to argue you down
> when you have it in black and white on paper
> because "so and so said it and he's the local pro
> so it MUST be true" or "you're not reading in the
> right place" ... seriously??? Anyway, that's
> exactly why I typically have a rulebook and rules
> of tournament play book in my bag somewhere. If
> they still argue it, I play it both ways then have
> them try to explain their misunderstanding of the
> rules to the TD.


I find the problem in PDGA events as much as SN events. Most players are not going to keep up with the current rules changes even if you give them a rule book. If they would make the "Official Rules Exam" something other then an open book test then I would have more trust in those so called officials. I assume its still being done this way.
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login

Online Users

Guests: 11
Record Number of Users: 19 on January 14, 2013
Record Number of Guests: 244 on February 20, 2013