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Reporting of Violations of the Rules of Play

Posted by Warlord 
Reporting of Violations of the Rules of Play
November 27, 2013 10:05AM
    [*] A player is seen stealing another's property.
    [*] A Tournament Director changes a scorecard to allow a friend to win.
    [*] Casual players known on this forum destroy course equipment.
    [*] A player plays in a division that he is not allowed to play due to winning in a higher division.
    [*] A player, or group of players, routinely openly use illegal drugs during sanctioned tournaments.


Which of the above can be discussed on this forum?
Re: Reporting of Violations of the Rules of Play
November 27, 2013 10:20AM
the first 4, the last one needs to be taken up with the BOD and the Tournament TD

Central Louisiana Disc Golf Association President
Ryan Niccolini PDGA#55907
Re: Reporting of Violations of the Rules of Play
November 27, 2013 10:44AM
If the reasoning is that the last one would put the SN in a bad light with sponsors, or would be inappropriate to minors, wouldn't the first three be inappropriate also since they are all violations of the law?


Side note: I work with kids daily. They know what is happening out there. You can't hide it from them. You have to show them that you are making an attempt to make things right. The same thing goes to potential sponsors. .



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/2013 11:05AM by Warlord.
Re: Reporting of Violations of the Rules of Play
November 27, 2013 11:17AM
This topic should be moved
Re: Reporting of Violations of the Rules of Play
November 27, 2013 11:21AM
Quote
Header for General Discussion
This forum is for discussing all disc golf topics.
Re: Reporting of Violations of the Rules of Play
November 29, 2013 04:18AM
[*] A player is seen stealing another's property.
-This is acceptable forum topic because if a player was seen stealing, then the items would have been returned, and if decided charges filed. So since legal action has already taken place, then talking about incident and making others aware is acceptable. If player is seen stealing and the merchandise was not found after search and questioning, the incident can be posted about but needs to contain no judgement statements against the accused, only the facts of the incident's transgression(legal reasons). If you see player steal something and you do not turn him in, then you have just confessed to failing to report a crime and you have discredited yourself as a respectable person. I would not post that for legal and moral reasons.

[*] A Tournament Director changes a scorecard to allow a friend to win.
-For legal action to ensue you would need physical proof of the original scorecard, (i.e. a picture) or you would need all other players on the card to have kept official scorecards signed by each player and all of them must be identical to each other and different than the changed scorecard. If you have suspected a TD of doing this and everyone on your card and any other witness's agree with you and are willing to make official statements to the fact, the BOD should be contacted immediately(during awards ceremony or payout if possible). It needs to be determined if player given the false score and payout is a co-conspirator. After referring to BOD, an emergency session will convene and a course of action will be implemented. The TD will automatically be suspended pending an investigation, the player will also be suspended pending an investigation and returning of unearned winnings. Upon completion of investigation the results will be adjusted accordingly, reparations made, and judgement against offending parties handed down. This whole process(except the collecting of winnings) should take less than 24 hours after initial BOD contact is made. After this 24 hours you may post a topic on forum about the situation and the parties involved as punitive actions have already taken place.

[*] Casual players known on this forum destroy course equipment.
-If you have actual proof/evidence of this then it should be taken to the authorities, Course/Park Mgmt/Ranger's, local club president or course designer. Once legal or governing body ruling's have occured, you may post the situation on forum. If you only have hearsay(word of mouth) accusations, you may post what occured(damage, vandalism, etc...) and ask the question of the person being identified as the perpetrator without accusing said person or making any judgement. You may also ask if anyone else has information on the transgressions that took place, without implicating the suspected person. Legal issues can arise if you accuse a person of something but can't prove it. If a park or club's governing body meets and holds a hearing or vote to summarily rule on the situation, you can post about the outcome of that as well, but be careful you can't legally ban a person from a public park or course, unless you have the Court System or the Park Officials involvement. You can only remove his eligibility to participate in disc golf organized events directed by your association. You also can not refuse the player entry into a PDGA event without cooperation from the PDGA. So depending on which of these actions take place you can post about this topic as long as you word it without hitting an legality points.

[*] A player plays in a division that he is not allowed to play due to winning in a higher division.
-If the ineligible round is discovered the day of the tournament the TD needs to be notified immediately. If only 1 round of play has happened the player will have first round scored as all 7's and will be allowed to play the 2nd round in the correct division for which they qualify, the player can earn points in that division and any prizes awarded. If discovered after the rounds are over but before payout/awards, the player will be disqualified from both rounds and will not receive any points for tournament. The $2 SN fee is still to be paid to SN, the player's entry fee is up to TD discretion if it will be returned or not. If the ineligible play resulted in a player collecting winnings, those winnings shall be returned to the TD asap. Once returned TD may make the decision to award the 2nd place player with winnings, distribute them evenly, or return them to the club's possesion. If discs or merchandise has been altered in anyway, damaged, or anything that would otherwise classify it as used, then the TD has the right to demand monetary compensation for said items. The TD and the BOD need to be notified as soon as the mistake is discovered. The player needs to be contacted asap and a determination of accidental or willful intent needs to be decided upon. All ineligible play will result in a warning and 30 day probation no matter the cause, but if willful intent is determined then the 30 day probation becomes a suspension as long as reparations demands are met. If they are not met then player is ineligible to compete in SN sanctioned events until settlement is made. After which a 1 year probation will ensue. This can be posted in the forum a number of ways. If you as a player notice a player has stepped down without completed mandated process, then you may post this in a topic. You can also post about the entire transgression of events as they happened simply relaying the facts. You can also post as the offending party, confessing to willful intent or alerting to the mistake you made. If you see someone registered for an event in a division for which they do not qualify for, you may also post this fact. If the player is a repeat offender, stiffer punishments will be levied, and the forum topic can be dialogue about said player's sportsmanship.

[*] A player, or group of players, routinely openly use illegal drugs during sanctioned tournaments.
-The TD needs to be notified of the illegal activity. If possible to visually document the activity then proceed with documenting and bring evidence to tournament director. You have 2 options in this situation, if you and another player observe player's engaging in illegal activity or visual evidence is obtained you can mark it on the scorecard and alert the TD. You can choose to alert 3 different ways, alert the TD secretly so he/she may come and verify illegal activity. You may choose to suspend play and have either yourself or other witness go and alert TD in person so TD may return and make a judgement. You may wait till after the round and then notify the TD at that point. If you do not have another witness and no visual evidence you can alert the TD in any of the above methods but the TD reserves the right to issue only a warning due to lack of 2 person verification. If 2 person verification or visual evidence is presented then the TD is required to immediately disqualify the offending party's, who forfeit all fee's, entry, and points. If the evidence is enough for law enforcement intervention, the TD should be notified so he may follow the proper procedure for reporting criminal activity at tournament location. Different course's have different systems in place, like Park Rangers, Park Police Officers, Security Guards, some parks may be enforced by federal agencies, some parks are on private property in which case landowner would need to be notified. The person responsible for the event and the people in charge of the park need to be the one's to alert the authorities or take any kind of legal action. The BOD needs to be notified of the situation as soon as it's reported to the TD, and especially before any law enforcement is contacted. If 2 person Verification/Visual Evidence report is made to TD and action is not taken to remove players from tournament and course, you may contact the BOD asap, especially before the start of next round or the awards/payout ceremony. If for some reason you can't get a hold of BOD then and there, keep documentation on the score's, places, and payouts, and present to BOD so a summary judgement can be made and the proper points, place and payout can be awarded to those who deserved them. IF THIS IS THE CASE, then you may post the details of entire experience unless advised otherwise by legal counsel or law enforcement.
-If you decide to begin posting accusations on the forum about a person or person's engaging in illegal activity, you can face serious legal issue's and have litigation problems. You cannot accuse someone of such an activity without being able to provide proof upon request. If you cannot provide proof, you yourself have just committed slander and defamation of character and can be held financially liable. Any evidence you do have that you decide to post in the forum instead of release to authorities is no longer viable evidence the district attorney can present in court. You could be considered a hostile party or accused of harassment yourself and have your testimony stricken if charges were brought up. SO IF YOU wanna chat about a person or person's routinely using illicit substances and a course of binding or legal action in which you were party too has not transpired, then your topic is not suitable for forum publication and the issue needs to be handled via private message's, phone, email, or in person.

Central Louisiana Disc Golf Association President
Ryan Niccolini PDGA#55907
Re: Reporting of Violations of the Rules of Play
November 29, 2013 06:07AM
Tell whoever wrote that for you that they did a good job....and your turning the final one against me was a nice little touch. However, you missed the whole point of my post...probably because I failed to convey it well.

My point is that the problem of drug use on the course should (and is, according to the forum guidelines) be an allowed subject. The "not suitable for, or objectionable to, minors" excuse is weak. Most, if not all, minors who visit this forum are well aware of what is happening. Wouldn't it be the right thing to show them that we care enough about the image of the game, and them, to make an attempt to do something about it?

I have never reported anybody to a TD, park rangers or police for doing this....but let them do it in front of a minor and things may change.

I remember a conversation I had with Hogman on the forum several years ago on this same subject. if I recall correctly, he agreed with me. I wonder if any other members of the BOD agree with my reasoning.

Ryan, I thank you for what you are doing. Not many are as dedicated as you. All I, and others, are asking is that you slow down and consider things before acting.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2013 07:04AM by Warlord.
Re: Reporting of Violations of the Rules of Play
November 29, 2013 09:42AM
Here is the fine line, I will use josh anthon thread as example, you may discuss the problem of drug usage on disc golf courses in the general discussion unless you don't associate actual people with it. A user commented that half his friends use drugs at parks, association number 1, and then later stated while working for his friend 90% of the NFL players he had interactions with use drugs regularly, association number 2, he then goes on to name an actual team with drug users on it by the teams name, association number 3, so what this person has done has not discussed the problem at hand but he has glamorized that 50% of his friends use drugs and 90% of one the worlds largest role model creating sports is using drugs. Another user stated it would be legal soon, down playing the still standing extremely strict drug laws. There are no constructive statements in these posts. Therefore it is not suitable for minors who are so impressionable. Making it seem like its not that bad and that everybody does it, is unsuitable for minors. Also both of the statements mentioning the NFL and a specific team are slanderous comments to a professional organization which can be a legal issue for both the poster and the moderators.

Central Louisiana Disc Golf Association President
Ryan Niccolini PDGA#55907



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2013 09:43AM by niklpenny.
Re: Reporting of Violations of the Rules of Play
November 29, 2013 12:16PM
^ ... Agreed.


A loved one got into the world of the herbal plant everyone seems to think is so harmless. All their friends down played it and didn't matter what I tried to tell/show them their friends knew better. Fast forward 2 years and they come to realize exactly how mind-numbing it was and there's a LOT about that year of their life they can't even remember. Yes in the grand scheme of illicit drugs it's probably the most nonlethal ... But it's still illegal for a reason. It's prescribed in some states for a reason ( SO IS COCAIN! and only because it's better that many of the cocaine based alternatives).
Re: Reporting of Violations of the Rules of Play
November 29, 2013 03:48PM
Joe_Kool Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ^ ... Agreed.
>
>
> A loved one got into the world of the herbal plant
> everyone seems to think is so harmless. All their
> friends down played it and didn't matter what I
> tried to tell/show them their friends knew better.
> Fast forward 2 years and they come to realize
> exactly how mind-numbing it was and there's a LOT
> about that year of their life they can't even
> remember. Yes in the grand scheme of illicit drugs
> it's probably the most nonlethal ... But it's
> still illegal for a reason. It's prescribed in
> some states for a reason ( SO IS COCAIN! and only
> because it's better that many of the cocaine based
> alternatives).



Not prescribed anywhere in this country for any reason.
Re: Reporting of Violations of the Rules of Play
November 29, 2013 04:24PM
Quote

If you decide to begin posting accusations on the forum about a person or person's engaging in illegal activity, you can face serious legal issue's and have litigation problems. You cannot accuse someone of such an activity without being able to provide proof upon request. If you cannot provide proof, you yourself have just committed slander and defamation of character and can be held financially liable. Any evidence you do have that you decide to post in the forum instead of release to authorities is no longer viable evidence the district attorney can present in court. You could be considered a hostile party or accused of harassment yourself and have your testimony stricken if charges were brought up.

Try to stay away from the legal advice as it is largely incorrect.

BTW, why should someone who witnesses illegal activity not report that activity to law enforcement immediately? What is the rationale for reporting it to the TD or BOD first? Just for argument's sake, you don't have to worry about a drug using competitor getting let off by the TD if he is in custody and the search turned up the illegal substance.
Re: Reporting of Violations of the Rules of Play
November 30, 2013 02:31AM
wayneacree Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Joe_Kool Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ^ ... Agreed.
> >
> >
> > A loved one got into the world of the herbal
> plant
> > everyone seems to think is so harmless. All
> their
> > friends down played it and didn't matter what I
> > tried to tell/show them their friends knew
> better.
> > Fast forward 2 years and they come to realize
> > exactly how mind-numbing it was and there's a
> LOT
> > about that year of their life they can't even
> > remember. Yes in the grand scheme of illicit
> drugs
> > it's probably the most nonlethal ... But it's
> > still illegal for a reason. It's prescribed in
> > some states for a reason ( SO IS COCAIN! and
> only
> > because it's better that many of the cocaine
> based
> > alternatives).
>
>
> Not prescribed anywhere in this country for any
> reason.

Cocaine derivatives aren't prescribed for pain management?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2013 02:33AM by Joe_Kool.
Re: Reporting of Violations of the Rules of Play
November 30, 2013 06:02PM
Jazzcaster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> BTW, why should someone who witnesses illegal
> activity not report that activity to law
> enforcement immediately? What is the rationale for
> reporting it to the TD or BOD first? Just for
> argument's sake, you don't have to worry about a
> drug using competitor getting let off by the TD if
> he is in custody and the search turned up the
> illegal substance.


Sometimes people should mind their own business. The world would be a much better place if people spent more time taking care of their own issues, rather than focusing on the shortcomings of others.
Re: Reporting of Violations of the Rules of Play
December 01, 2013 09:52AM
Quote
wayneacree
Sometimes people should mind their own business. The world would be a much better place if people spent more time taking care of their own issues, rather than focusing on the shortcomings of others.

But, it is my business and, presumably, the SN's, if someone is using an illegal substance during competition. In the context of this thread, I take it that you have no problem in reporting the activity to the TD but do not think law enforcement should be involved. To me, this says that you have an expectation that a TD for an SN event will tolerate the use of illegal substances during a tournament round. It is also a tacit acknowledgement that it takes place.

See how quickly the SN can be painted as an organization that tolerates pot smoking while playing disc golf, or, at least, that its members have an expectation that they can smoke pot during SN tournaments without fear of disqualification or discipline by the SN? How would an easily Googled news article about pot smoking at SN Tournaments affect sponsorship? Maybe not much. Maybe enough.

As to why it is my business, I have seen groups of people charged with possession when only one member of the group actually had possession and been involved in cases where one person stashed their drugs in another's property (vehicle, purse, etc.) and got the innocent person's property seized and the innocent one arrested (and do you think the loser who actually committed the crime admitted to anything?). Not everyone has equal amounts to lose due the mere arrest for possession. I'm not going to risk it when I am required to be in near proximity for several hours to someone who is doing that. And I'm not going to leave it up to the TD either. Oh, I'll report it to the TD . . . after the arrest. I also just assume that if I were to report to the TD that someone was smoking pot during a round that the accused would deny it.

What drug user ever acknowledges that what he does has or can have any detrimental affect on anyone else? MYOB right?
Re: Reporting of Violations of the Rules of Play
December 01, 2013 11:13AM
I couldn't have said it better...really, I couldn't have.
Re: Reporting of Violations of the Rules of Play
December 01, 2013 11:37AM
Questions:


A prospective sponsor, or local leader, approaches you as a TD or member of the BOD, or as an individual, showing an interest in the sport. They want to observe a tournament. Of course, you want to show them what a great game we have, and you invite them to the next local tournament.


How would you feel if they got out of their own vehicles in the parking lot and smelled that distinct aroma?

Or, how would you feel if they walked the course to watch the competition and walked upon a group taking a "break?"


Even if in a non-tournament situation...show would you feel if you took these people on a casual round only to experience the same?

If you say that you are concerned about the image of the game, you had better learn to walk the walk.
Re: Reporting of Violations of the Rules of Play
December 01, 2013 12:08PM
two things...first you guys need a real life. Secondly, talking about drugs on the forum(naming such) is a forum violation.

I am not concerned about the image of the game...why? It is disc golf. NOBODY can make a living and retire with a fat pad from throwing a frizbee. Get over yourselves...go play in a tournament in one of the legalized states and learn to not be a bigot.

Some people actually have a medical card, what then? You going to call the police on someone for smoking instead of using an addictive pill(that can kill you in 30 seconds from an overdose on the course)?

You guys should have played disc golf with me(when I lived in Colorado), maybe your eyes might see things differently.
Finally, stop trying to police everyone else's lives, I am sure that most of the whiners on here have the most skeletons in their closet.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2013 12:19PM by wayneacree.
Re: Reporting of Violations of the Rules of Play
December 01, 2013 12:17PM
Jazzcaster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Sometimes people should mind their own business.
> The world would be a much better place if people
> spent more time taking care of their own issues,
> rather than focusing on the shortcomings of
> others.
>
>
> But, it is my business and, presumably, the SN's,
> if someone is using an illegal substance during
> competition. In the context of this thread, I take
> it that you have no problem in reporting the
> activity to the TD but do not think law
> enforcement should be involved. To me, this says
> that you have an expectation that a TD for an SN
> event will tolerate the use of illegal substances
> during a tournament round. It is also a tacit
> acknowledgement that it takes place.
>
> See how quickly the SN can be painted as an
> organization that tolerates pot smoking while
> playing disc golf, or, at least, that its members
> have an expectation that they can smoke pot during
> SN tournaments without fear of disqualification or
> discipline by the SN? How would an easily Googled
> news article about pot smoking at SN Tournaments
> affect sponsorship? Maybe not much. Maybe enough.
>
> As to why it is my business, I have seen groups of
> people charged with possession when only one
> member of the group actually had possession and
> been involved in cases where one person stashed
> their drugs in another's property (vehicle, purse,
> etc.) and got the innocent person's property
> seized and the innocent one arrested (and do you
> think the loser who actually committed the crime
> admitted to anything?). Not everyone has equal
> amounts to lose due the mere arrest for
> possession. I'm not going to risk it when I am
> required to be in near proximity for several hours
> to someone who is doing that. And I'm not going to
> leave it up to the TD either. Oh, I'll report it
> to the TD . . . after the arrest. I also just
> assume that if I were to report to the TD that
> someone was smoking pot during a round that the
> accused would deny it.
>
> What drug user ever acknowledges that what he does
> has or can have any detrimental affect on anyone
> else? MYOB right?

You can not be prosecuted...only charged. What a crock of crap. Mississippi has decriminalized it to a point that you only get a ticket. Anything else?
Re: Reporting of Violations of the Rules of Play
December 01, 2013 12:33PM
Quote
Wayne Acree
I am not concerned about the image of the game...

No response necessary.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2013 12:35PM by Warlord.
Re: Reporting of Violations of the Rules of Play
December 02, 2013 01:02PM
Wow, Ryan. If I knew you were doing a complete, formal indictment of my statements, I'd have followed this thread.

Seems like you're the new board nazi. All of these recent board "rulings" have been implemented by you, accompanied by overtly clinical, pseudo-bureaucratic rule citations or interpretations.

Why do you bozos invariably get drunk on the little power we give you?
Re: Reporting of Violations of the Rules of Play
December 02, 2013 01:35PM
In his defense, I (as the originator) had asked him in a PM to move the thread when it appeared that was headed downhill after wayneacree jumped in with his juvenile retorts. Then, after Jazzcaster responded in a civil manner with a very valid argument, I sent another PM....asking Ryan to leave it up to see where it would go.

I have no earthly idea what rules were violated in this thread.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2013 02:14PM by Warlord.
Re: Reporting of Violations of the Rules of Play
December 02, 2013 06:17PM
I'm just surprised by the two-faced treatment. Maybe he though I was following this thread. Maybe not, but he never laid all of my statements out in police report form in the other thread - you know - the one he was referencing. And of course, no posts were deleted, though they too seem to violate the ever-tightening rules of the board(s).

I'm still waiting to get a designation between violations of the main boards (i.e. what gets sent here) vs. violations of all boards. In other words, why does one get sent here yet another is deleted altogether?

When the "representatives" become statute-spouting bureaucratic automatons, it might be time for a change.
Re: Reporting of Violations of the Rules of Play
December 02, 2013 06:22PM
I though that his argument against that thread was the weakest I've seen yet. it is beginning to appear that he holds a grudge against all who challenge his views.
Re: Reporting of Violations of the Rules of Play
December 02, 2013 08:40PM
Thank you for the ressurection of this thread. Civil debate of sensitive issues can be a good thing.
Re: Reporting of Violations of the Rules of Play
December 02, 2013 10:02PM
A repeat of my previous post. Will any of the BOD respond?

Warlord Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Questions:
>
>
> A prospective sponsor, or local leader, approaches
> you as a TD or member of the BOD, or as an
> individual, showing an interest in the sport.
> They want to observe a tournament. Of course, you
> want to show them what a great game we have, and
> you invite them to the next local tournament.
>
>
> How would you feel if they got out of their own
> vehicles in the parking lot and smelled that
> distinct aroma?
>
> Or, how would you feel if they walked the course
> to watch the competition and walked upon a group
> taking a "break?"
>
>
> Even if in a non-tournament situation...show would
> you feel if you took these people on a casual
> round only to experience the same?
>
> If you say that you are concerned about the image
> of the game, you had better learn to walk the
> walk.

Will the SN BOD take a public stand on the issue? Maybe have a "public service" link on the new website to drug free.org or another national or local anti-drug organization? Just a thought...
Re: Reporting of Violations of the Rules of Play
December 02, 2013 10:52PM
Civil debate of sensitive issues can be a good thing. Agreed, so long as it doesn't get out of hand.
As it stands right now, the SN's does not condone the use of any illegal drugs....
Re: Reporting of Violations of the Rules of Play
December 02, 2013 11:14PM
I agree, Jonathan. And the individual posts that violate policy should be addressed for possible removal, not the entire thread.

Not sure if I can make a motion for the next BOD meeting, but here goes: I move that the BOD develop a comprehensive anti-drug policy to be posted on the main page of the new website.
I also move that a prepared statement mirroring this policy should be included in all tournament director's package to be read at the player's meeting.
My last motion would be a public service link to an organization such as drugfree.org on the front page of the new website.

These actions would show the public that we care.
Re: Reporting of Violations of the Rules of Play
December 03, 2013 10:40AM
Great post war!!

I second that proposal!
Re: Reporting of Violations of the Rules of Play
December 03, 2013 12:49PM
Want to tell me why my post was deleted? All I did was criticize niccolini and say he missed the point I was making. Guess that's against the rules too.
Re: Reporting of Violations of the Rules of Play
December 03, 2013 02:29PM
I think your post is still there.
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