Alabama   •   Arkansas   •   Florida   •   Georgia   •   Kentucky   •   Louisiana   •   Mississippi   •   Oklahoma   •   Tennessee   •   Texas
Welcome! » Log In » Create A New Profile

Southern Nationals Insurance?

Posted by Trackin01 
Southern Nationals Insurance?
February 04, 2014 04:08PM
Last night here in NLR, AR we had a meeting with the NLR Parks Department. They told us that from now on, if we wish to host events at Burns Park, we will officially need to provide insurance for the event.

Two people said Southern Nationals will possibly be providing insurance for events sanctioned under them. Any update on that statement?
Re: Southern Nationals Insurance?
February 04, 2014 08:38PM
Trackin01 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Last night here in NLR, AR we had a meeting with
> the NLR Parks Department. They told us that from
> now on, if we wish to host events at Burns Park,
> we will officially need to provide insurance for
> the event.
>
> Two people said Southern Nationals will possibly
> be providing insurance for events sanctioned under
> them. Any update on that statement?


I was searching for insurance companies last night, I found 2 that will be worth contacting. If anyone knows of any that would work with set like we have shoot Me some info please.

As of now, there is nothing official, I know it has been discussed that we want to look into insurance for the SN.
Re: Southern Nationals Insurance?
February 04, 2014 09:33PM
www.kandkinsurance.com

From their website...

Quote
offers over 70 specialty programs for risks including: arenas, aquariums and zoos, bowling and billiard centers, camps, campgrounds, convention centers, entertainers, exhibitors and vendors, facilities, family fun centers, festivals, fairs, franchised powersport dealerships, gaming risks, health clubs, horse and dog tracks, intercollegiate sports, K-12 insurance, professional and amateur sports, martial arts, gymnastics and dance studios, motorsports race team and tracks, outfitters & guides, skating rinks, special events, sports facilities and stadiums.

Used them when we had to secure a policy to use the Horse Farm when it still belonged to UL for the 2011 La States. Best deal I could find that seemed to be reputable and followed through on our inquiries.
Re: Southern Nationals Insurance?
February 05, 2014 04:15PM
Eventinsurance.com

Central Louisiana Disc Golf Association President
Ryan Niccolini PDGA#55907
Re: Southern Nationals Insurance?
February 06, 2014 06:16AM
You should try to contact John K. he was working on this very thing last year.
Re: Southern Nationals Insurance?
February 06, 2014 07:45AM
Has anyone considered just asking an independent insurance agent? How hard can this possibly be?
Re: Southern Nationals Insurance?
February 06, 2014 08:32AM
Ok guys here is what I know on the insurance debate. Can Southern Nationals provide insurance for all of its events? Can SN afford this coverage?

Here is my findings: the company that PDGA uses is a huge insurance company that provides insurance for large/bulk events like what the PDGA provides. They have a sub-company I was sent to. This company deals with smaller events or associations. They asked me questions like: how many events does SN host per year and per quarter? I said about 100 events per year? 25 events a quarter?
Next question was: with such small events per year and quarter the SN would have to purchase either two types of coverage. Either an annual coverage one lump sum or a quarterly coverage. The annual coverage was cheaper. However the coverage was not cheap. If SN wanted coverage there were many options like: Who do we cover? Players Only? Players and Staff? Players, Staff, and Spectators? The price changes for all of these options.
Another question was asked: How many people do you expect to cover on average per event? I said on average SN has about 50 players. Some events can reach 150+ players.

Bottom line: Quarterly coverage on 25 events, covering players and staff, at 50 players per event came out to $1500-$2500 per quarter.

Then they said IF SN signed a quarterly coverage of 25 events and went over that 25 events per quarter: lets say 35-40 events. They would have to prorate that bill to account for the extra events.

I hope that helps and if SN can come up with the money. I then we can have insurance!
Re: Southern Nationals Insurance?
February 06, 2014 10:03AM
The question comes up from time to time about the benefits of SNDG sanctioning. Event insurance coverage would be a huge benefit. 25 events x 50 players x $2/head = $2,500 dollars: the estimated quarterly premium. Every time a TD runs an event without insurance he is risking everything he owns for a purely recreational activity. The number of events sanctioned by the SNDG allows the premium to be spread over a large number of players; something an individual tournament can not afford.

Get the coverage set up, establish a per player fee and I'm in.

Gary Wagoner
Re: Southern Nationals Insurance?
February 06, 2014 02:37PM
It seems like the only coverage necessary would be liability coverage for the TD and Staff and for the Venue and its staff. I.e., the TD should be able to get a COI for the Venue owner that shows proof of coverage for its liability and the TD and tourney staff should be covered for their liability and that's it. And if the Venue doesn't require insurance, then only cover the TD and staff for their liability. It's going to be a freak case in Louisiana that results in any damages awarded against a TD or a venue. The primary benefit is probably going to be the defense of claims afforded under the policy.
Re: Southern Nationals Insurance?
February 07, 2014 01:36AM
One of the Insurance companies I emailed has replied, they seem interested in working with us. My thoughts, everyone is going with the idea of SN covering the cost of the insurance. What if the insurance company was able to provide a very affordable rate compared to what is on the market now? For example only, say if they could do it for $50-$100 for all SN events, then the T.D. has the option to go with them or choose to use another service? On our end We could add them to the website the same way we did with DGU, this would help them expand to all the non SN/PDGA events around the area that need insurance.
Re: Southern Nationals Insurance?
February 07, 2014 08:21AM
That is definitely the way to go, Eric. SN sanctioned events having access to insurance for their event at a reduced rate is a good deal for the series.
Re: Southern Nationals Insurance?
February 07, 2014 01:53PM
Eric-

what your saying is: If the Tournament director wanted to use this particular insurance company we would possibly pay their discounted service of $50-$100? Did they say what that covered?
Re: Southern Nationals Insurance?
February 07, 2014 04:28PM
Trackin01 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Eric

> what your saying is: If the Tournament director
> wanted to use this particular insurance company we
> would possibly pay their discounted service of
> $50-$100? Did they say what that covered?


I haven't began serious conversation with them, I stated that We are looking for a very affordable alternative vs what is currently available.
The messaged I got received back... minus personal information.

Eric, thank you for the note via our web-site. Absolutely this is something I think we can be assistance on for you. Attached is our application. Please complete as best as possible and return to my attention.

I have (edit) cced on this e-mail as (edit) will be your underwriter. He is on vacation this week. (edit) is a Sr. Underwriter in the Sports Division at (edit) and will do a great job for you. His direct line is (edit)

If you have any questions before the end of the week, please feel free to give me a call. We look forward to working with you on your insurance needs.
Re: Southern Nationals Insurance?
February 10, 2014 12:01PM
JUDGES have been dealing with having to provide insurance at the REZ tournaments for several years. It has been several hundred dollars in the past. In July 2013, we got it down to $140 for our 1-day tournament then. In Jan 2014, we got it down to $50 for a 1-day event. For $50, PDGA provided the insurance.

It would be nice to have SN provided insurance as an option. Clearly costs are an issue when a TD runs a tournament - and $50 is the benchmark for insurance.
Re: Southern Nationals Insurance?
February 10, 2014 03:31PM
Not exactly there Micah. You forgot you have to pay the PDGA $50 minimum flat fee for sanctioning, while the SN is $0 on that. So $100 is the actual comparable number.

On the other hand you get something for your $50 PDGA sanctioning fee at least, which is being associated with a respectable sanctioning body that bothers to fix its website, provides the TD with an update-able tournament page, provides ratings, enforces its rules a bit more equitably, and generally has a better reputation. But at least you don't have to worry if you go with the SN about people hijacking your tournament thread, after all that is the most important duty of the SN Board.
Re: Southern Nationals Insurance?
February 11, 2014 07:57AM
When I called the PDGA about insurance, they told me that ALL sanctioned events are covered under their insurance policy and yes running a PDGA C-tier is $50, but that is all you have to pay. UNLESS you have a parks department demanding a (Copy) of the insurance document with your event name on it to prove and place in their records, THEN the PDGA requires you to pay an additional $50. Their (PDGA) insurance company requires this payment.

So recap: All events sanctioned under the PDGA are covered under insurance. An extra $50 is needed for proof of coverage.

You guys should really look into what happened in Memphis a few years ago. A guy was getting discs out of the water for players and cut his foot. He went to the emergency room and had a huge bill and no insurance. He then sued the club to pay for his medical expenses. *This is all from what has been told, so I am not 100% on the truth here* However, had this been at one of my events where he could've sued me..............I wouldn't have been happy.
Re: Southern Nationals Insurance?
February 11, 2014 08:51AM
So could a correctly worded waiver lower the need for insurance, or even completely eliminate it?

I'm speaking about any type of tournament (SN, NPC, PDGA, others).
Re: Southern Nationals Insurance?
February 11, 2014 09:00AM
When I talked to the NLR Parks department about that, they said a waiver paper would not hold up in court. If this person came to your event that you advertised and brought people to, and they got injured, waivers will not hold up.

I really don't know for sure, just relating a message
Re: Southern Nationals Insurance?
February 11, 2014 03:38PM
Seems like the benchmark formula assumes PDGA sanctioning is free to all players, members or not, except for the $50 per event to be shared by all. Good to know if that is accurate.

I'm guessing the parks don't care about our opinion on the value of waivers. Liability laws can vary from State to State and from park to park.
Re: Southern Nationals Insurance?
February 11, 2014 03:59PM
I still don't understand how the PDGA is a cheaper option for insurance if you look at all financials included. I am not going to rehash all the numbers like I did on another thread previously but it basically costs $13 per player (when you factor in the sanctioning fee, proof of insurance cost, per player fee, non-membership/membership fees) to run a C-tier event with proof of insurance. This would be $1300 for 100 players. Even if you had to pay $300 for private insurance and charged $3 per player to cover this cost, this would still save almost $1000 in total costs. Saying that the PDGA offers insurance with proof for $50 is completely disregarding all of the other required fees that they charge.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Casey Cox
"If you aint first, you're last." -- Ricky Bobby's daddy

2007-2008 SN Amateur Player of the Year
SN advanced single season points record holder - 466 (2007-2008)
SN advanced single season wins record holder - 16 (2007-2008)
SN advanced single season score record holder - 53.40 (2007-2008)
Re: Southern Nationals Insurance?
February 11, 2014 04:11PM
Cox: your missing the point. It's the difference between a tournament directors cost vs player cost. The "player" is not hosting the event. The tournament director is paying the $50 to PDGA to sanction a c-tier and the players pay the other fees. Unless the director comes up with the fees from sponsorship.
Regardless: you get no coverage from SN and you do get coverage from PDGA. Good luck trying to find cheaper coverage than what is currently offered from PDGA
I am only speaking as an event director here. As a player I would have no issues and could t have an issue b/c tournament directors bust their butt, spend their money, and work too hard to be criticized about sanctioning. Players can choose what event they want to play and quit complaining b/c sanctioning has changed.

I will say: I do not agree with the extra $10 fee and high annual $50-$75 membership fees.
Re: Southern Nationals Insurance?
February 11, 2014 04:33PM
In the world of running a disc golf tournament, aka being a TD, there are cost that the TD must cover and there are other costs that are variable based on the number players.

TD/Club cost for a PDGA tournament without insurance is $50
TD/Club cost for a SNDG tournament without insurance is $0

TD/Club cost for a PDGA tournament with insurance proof is $100
TD/Club cost for a SNDG tournament with insurance proof is not offered.

The per player costs are irrelevant and not feasible to compare b/c of vastly different benefits. SN per player fees are clearly cheaper than PDGA, but the difference is unrelated to insurance costs.
Re: Southern Nationals Insurance?
February 11, 2014 04:38PM
I deal with insurance certificates all most for every job my company does. When a company tell us we have to get a certificate to names them as "additional insure" which is what the PDGA is charging an extra 50.00 for, they are making that money 100% profit. No insurance company charges to name anyone as "additional insured". That is a free from every company!

___________________________________________________________________________
Keith "Sunshine" B.

"You are truly one miserable human being."
Alxtgr
Re: Southern Nationals Insurance?
February 11, 2014 04:41PM
I understand what yall are saying except for the fact that any expense can be transferred to a per player fee. If there is no sanctioning at all and insurance is purchased for say $300, a TD can still charge an extra $3-5 per player on entry fees to cover the cost of insurance. There really is no difference between a "TD cost" and a "player cost". It is all the same pool of money.

I think it would be great if the Southern Nationals is able to offer insurance for events.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Casey Cox
"If you aint first, you're last." -- Ricky Bobby's daddy

2007-2008 SN Amateur Player of the Year
SN advanced single season points record holder - 466 (2007-2008)
SN advanced single season wins record holder - 16 (2007-2008)
SN advanced single season score record holder - 53.40 (2007-2008)
Re: Southern Nationals Insurance?
February 11, 2014 05:50PM
Casey, did you graduate from TD school of Tony Bass? Cause every player wants to pay an extra 3-5$ for insurance.

If the SN got a deal on insurance to cover all events it would be a LOT cheaper than each TD getting individual insurance for each event. Does that register for you?
Re: Southern Nationals Insurance?
February 11, 2014 06:17PM
Gourley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Casey, did you graduate from TD school of Tony
> Bass? Cause every player wants to pay an extra
> 3-5$ for insurance.
>
> If the SN got a deal on insurance to cover all
> events it would be a LOT cheaper than each TD
> getting individual insurance for each event. Does
> that register for you?

Do you intentionally only reply to parts of what somebody says without giving any regard to the entire statement or do you just not understand entire statements as a whole without focusing on one specific sentence? I clearly said that I thought it would be great if the Southern Nationals is able to reach a deal to offer insurance to its tournaments. Furthermore, my statement as a whole wasn't even comparing PDGA vs. SN, it was comparing PDGA vs. independent insurance. Yes, I obviously understand that it is likely that SN insurance would be cheaper than independent insurance. My point was simply that the notion that PDGA insurance is cheaper than independent insurance isn't completely accurate.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Casey Cox
"If you aint first, you're last." -- Ricky Bobby's daddy

2007-2008 SN Amateur Player of the Year
SN advanced single season points record holder - 466 (2007-2008)
SN advanced single season wins record holder - 16 (2007-2008)
SN advanced single season score record holder - 53.40 (2007-2008)
Re: Southern Nationals Insurance?
February 11, 2014 07:14PM
Dillon's momma dropped him on his head Casey.

As Eric suggested, the best path forward would be to secure an agreement for reduced rates from a carrier for SN sanctioned events and let the TDs/tournaments elect to participate based on need. Don't saddle the series with big fixed costs.
Re: Southern Nationals Insurance?
February 11, 2014 09:10PM
I wonder how willing an insurer is going to be to provide discounted insurance if participation is very limited. For a TD with a good homeowners policy, why would that TD get liability insurance if the venue doesn't require it?
Re: Southern Nationals Insurance?
February 17, 2014 02:53PM
Jazzcaster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wonder how willing an insurer is going to be to
> provide discounted insurance if participation is
> very limited. For a TD with a good homeowners
> policy, why would that TD get liability insurance
> if the venue doesn't require it?


A homeowner's policy is just that: coverage for accidents that happen on your property. Even the very best homeowner's insurance is not going to cover a TD if someone breaks their leg during an event and sues him for $1,000,000.

Does this answer your question?

Gary Wagoner
Re: Southern Nationals Insurance?
February 18, 2014 10:46AM
No. A homeowner's policy is much more than some sort of limited policy tied to accidents that happen on the property of the insured. Did you sleep through all of your insurance classes? Or did you just make up the nonsense that you wrote and assert it as if you knew it were true?

Incidentally, my question assumes coverage and asks why a TD would pay for insurance for something that he or she is already paying for insurance to cover. So if you actually want to answer a question, try answering the one that I asked.
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login

Online Users

Guests: 21
Record Number of Users: 19 on January 14, 2013
Record Number of Guests: 244 on February 20, 2013