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Question for all players & TDs

Posted by Gourley 
Question for all players & TDs
September 04, 2014 09:37AM
Say a manure farmer donates a lot of manure to me. I decide to charge the MRSP price and give $13.50 worth of manure to all players in their players pack. Is it ok for me, the TD to charge the donated manure into the players packs to boost my tournament's profitability?
Re: Question for all players & TDs
September 04, 2014 09:57AM
Are you referencing a $39 player pack? The toothbrush one?

BMB
Re: Question for all players & TDs
September 04, 2014 10:40AM
If the shoe fits for a tournament then it can wear it.
Re: Question for all players & TDs
September 04, 2014 10:52AM
Quote

Say a manure farmer donates a lot of manure to me

The last thing you need is more manure.
Re: Question for all players & TDs
September 04, 2014 11:55AM
Dillon,

Thank you for not posting this on my tounament thread.

I will not be deducting $39 for the players pack from each am player or anything close to that. What I have done is list the Fair Market Value of the items in the players pack. The posted results will show the FMV of all prizes, merchandize, etc. that went to the Ams and will include the value of the trophies, CTP's etc. Although I can not run the numbers before the tournament I expect that the FMV of the Am awards will be something on the order of 150%, but please don't hold me to that.

In the past I had reported Am prizes at less than FMV and was critized for the low payout. This year I am going in other direction and I see that the criticism has already begun. I don't know an answer that would satisfy everyone. I will be paying the $3/head park fee and $2/head sanctioning fee out of the sponsorship money. The trophies ($263) will also be paid out of the sponsorship money to keep from hitting small divisions, such as the womens divisions, so hard. Each AM disc prizes will be valued and reported a few dollars less than FMV. It will turn out, but not be reported, to be more than that because I will round up when necessary on the disc value to satisfy the individual calculated Am payout.

What I do not understand is this: if a TD gives out certificates to Ams and lets them choose the merchandise from a vendor, the vendor makes a profit and that is completely acceptable. If the TD fronts his own money and purchases the merchandise and makes a profit; that is roundly condemned.

I have tried to be up front about what I am going to do on my tournament. If you think the prizes are a bunch of manure at least you know that ahead of time so you can make an informed decision on whether or not to participate.

Gary Wagoner



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/2014 11:58AM by Gary Wagoner.
Re: Question for all players & TDs
September 04, 2014 12:47PM
Gary I appreciate your openness and yes it was your tournament that sparked my topic. I do not feel players should be "charged" for household goods, this includes flashlights, toothbrushes, donated shirts from 2010. I know the ruler was free last year and I'm sure someone may of used it for a paint stick but I feel as if most players would rather the TD keep these items than be penalized for them in their players pack and deducted from payout.

I am perfectly fine with the TD making as much money as he wants if the tournament is top notch quality and I don't feel as if I have just been robbed.

As always, I look forward to next event.
Re: Question for all players & TDs
September 04, 2014 01:28PM
Dillon,

In the four years that I have been running this tournament by myself I have raised over $8,000, come up with some pretty cool tournament discs and tripled the pro payouts. Yet you imply that the event was not top notch and you feel like you have been robbed. I believe one is never too old to learn. If you want to step up and run this event in 2015 and demonstrate how to run a top notch tournament I will gladly step aside to gain the benefit of your example.

Gary Wagoner
Re: Question for all players & TDs
September 04, 2014 02:33PM
You would be stuck with whole lot of manure because no one would buy your crap! Mr Wagoner as Dillion said bt the SN Championships "can't please em all". Good luck with your event.
Re: Question for all players & TDs
September 04, 2014 02:41PM
Gary why would I say your event isn't top notch quality and you rob players then the very next sentence say I was looking forward to making it?
Re: Question for all players & TDs
September 04, 2014 03:43PM
Gourley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gary why would I say your event isn't top notch
> quality and you rob players then the very next
> sentence say I was looking forward to making it?

Dillon,

Why you say certain things is a mystery to me, so I cannot answer that part of your question. As to other part, you are complaining about my tournament and used the following sentence in that context:

"I am perfectly fine with the TD making as much money as he wants if the tournament is top notch quality and I don't feel as if I have just been robbed."

I did not say that you overtly stated anything. I said that you made the implication. This is a lot like the manure analogy in your initial post. No, you did not say that I was giving the players manure but the implication is certainly there. You started this thread on the assumption that I am going to be deducting $39 from every Am player and give me no benefit of the doubt. I find it all very insulting.

My offer is sincere: if you want to run this tournament next year it is yours. As far as I know there is no entity lined up to take it over. I warn you, though, it is a heck of a lot of work. What you see on tournament day is merely the tip of the iceberg.

Gary Wagoner
Re: Question for all players & TDs
September 04, 2014 03:57PM
First off I didn't name any specific tournaments nor did I mention any TDs. I simply asked an opinion of players and TDs what their thoughts were on my first post. You assumed this was about your tournament. Like my second post said, if the shoe fits, wear it.

Secondly, I respect you as a TD and a player and would not trash you or your event. You do a very fine job of raising money and always have ran top notch tournament. Not sure why you got so defensive. I wasn't speaking about you, I was answering your question on "people get mad when TD's make money", I said I am fine with the TD making as much money as he/she wants if the event is top quality and I don't feel as if I'm being robbed, hence then is part I said "I'm looking forward to making it".
Re: Question for all players & TDs
September 05, 2014 08:37AM
^^^^^ Respect your elders son!

BMB
Re: Question for all players & TDs
September 05, 2014 10:03AM
I only respect people with 10 fingers, bhole.
Re: Question for all players & TDs
September 16, 2014 08:08PM
It seems some things never change. . .

Dg Guy - Disc GOlf Plaques & Awards
417-876-2197 House
417-296-6560 Cell

Know what you throw. . .
. . . throw what you know!
Re: Question for all players & TDs
September 17, 2014 06:48AM
Plenty has changed, no more used discs in payouts for starters.
Re: Question for all players & TDs
September 28, 2014 09:11AM
Boy, You need to keep that keyboard friendly or you WILL wear it as a smile!!!
Re: Question for all players & TDs
September 29, 2014 06:31AM
Well I guess it's time for the SN BOD to step up and award this crazed, Ensure drinking witch doctor his punishment. He is in clear violation of SN rule # 2.

I prefer no used plastic in my payout and that's a fact Jack!
Re: Question for all players & TDs
September 29, 2014 11:44AM
Not to mention the racial tone...
You shouldn't call people "boy", Doc.
Re: Question for all players & TDs
October 10, 2014 08:41AM
You Boys are funny!!! Children like these two are the reason SN is shrinking!!!
jcb
Re: Question for all players & TDs
October 14, 2014 12:59PM
Most all td's put the value amount of the players packs in the payout's Dillon but I am very doubtful any of them have actually taken that amount from payouts. For example, I buy discs for the player's packs at $10.00 each, then someone donates socks and bagtags to add to the players packs, the socks value being $10.00 and the bagtags at $5.00. When you go to do the payout you will list the retail value of that disc, let's say $15.00, plus the $10.00 for the socks and the $5.00 for the tags, even though they were donated. This makes the value of the players packs $30 each. I would never charge the players for either free item and at most I would charge the retail on the discs to come from payout. In this situation I would actually charge no more than $12.00 a disc coming from payouts. This gives the td a $2.00 profit from each players pack to cover costs and the players get a pack valued at $30 for only $12.
When you do the payout you list the retail price on each players pack, which would be the $30. It's real simple to understand. I don't believe there are td's out there doing it any different although some may charge a different amount than I do for items. I am sure Gary hasn't taken the $39 value out of his payouts either. This is the way players packs work and if this simple breakdown doesn't click with you then God help you, but please stop the senseless complaining and filling this forum with such junk. This is exactly why no one ever gets on the SN site anymore!
Re: Question for all players & TDs
October 14, 2014 01:48PM
James, hate I missed your tournament this past weekend but it was raining when it came time to leave and being a "pro" now I have to pick and chose what's in my best interest and a rainy forecast is not. I have never had a problem with any tournament you have ran so keep up the good work.

I apologize you see me asking a legit question as senseless junk. Please don't assume because the way you do things that everyone else does them the same way.

I know how tournaments are ran. I know how payouts are figured. I also know how to read a tournament results page and figure up how much money is taken out.

The SN forum has died because of Facebook, and some SN tournaments are shrinking because of the TD or the way they are ran. I know this for a fact.

It's the same reason we don't have house phones and video stores anymore. Always something bigger and better coming along. You should be thanking me for keeping this forum afloat with some entertainment, what little there is left.
Re: Question for all players & TDs
October 14, 2014 02:22PM
Gourley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The SN forum has died because of Facebook

Truth. Although it still serves a very useful purpose, the overall activity isn't what it once was because it is not the only outlet for people to communicate any longer.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Casey Cox
"If you aint first, you're last." -- Ricky Bobby's daddy

2007-2008 SN Amateur Player of the Year
SN advanced single season points record holder - 466 (2007-2008)
SN advanced single season wins record holder - 16 (2007-2008)
SN advanced single season score record holder - 53.40 (2007-2008)
Re: Question for all players & TDs
October 15, 2014 11:58AM
"I know how tournaments are ran. I know how payouts are figured. I also know how to read a tournament results page and figure up how much money is taken out."

Excellent! Dillon, please believe that I did the best I could on the Wall Doxey event. For a variety of reasons I am going to pass as the TD for next year's tournament. There is no better way to get the changes you want than to lead by example. I challenge you to step up and demonstrate how it ought to be done. The Wall Doxey courses and camp grounds have always been favorites of mine. You can rely on me to be there as a player. I look forward to being able to relax and enjoy competition and camaraderie during and after the rounds next year.

Gary Wagoner
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