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was there a TREE IN THE FAIRWAY?

WOW, way to go Mike coffey!

man you really got under the Zinger's skin, heeheehee!

mabey you should try laying up on those 400 ft magnet shots.

very nice DFL in the Capital City.
tree in the fairway
Re: was there a TREE IN THE FAIRWAY?
March 05, 2003 02:46PM
Your so welcome.

400 ft w/ a Magnet was a funny joke, but my game Saturday was a complete train-wreck. Even I can look back and laugh, ya'll have a long ass course, and a nice one. I liked the elevation changes, they reminded me of Chickasaw at times, except without the extra 300 ft throwing distance you need to birdie 45% of the holes.

I'll be honest though, courses like that are fun to play, and I'd play that one again, but I'll take a shorter more skillful course like that of "The Bogue" any day of the week. No offense locals, but what's the point of trying to throw a disc 450ft every time you drive a hole. To each his own, I enjoy playing a long course on occasion, we have a great one here "Muni" but even there it's long yet still easier to shoot significantly under par.

I cvonsider my round trash if not under par. I'll stick by that no matter what my score showed Saturday.

And Zinger - Anyday of the week that you feel you want to play me on my local course, consider this a challenge. We have 5 to shoot from. But there's now way in hell you shot a 6 under at Highland and you play advanced. My Ass!

peace
...the zinger is mighty good on the long distances...I, personally, was schooled on those pro tees.

I would add, however, I'm curious to see the results on a tighter type course. Playing with Terry, Slater, Jesse, etc. was a great time...hope to see all of you guys at Bud Hill in May.

Remember the Forest is callin' and it will have two courses instead of the regular added holes (by May)...and of course the regular Bud Hill party'n requirements will be met too!

That BR course was indeed huge and a lot of fun, but I "got no arm". I still can't believe I hit the bridge and got a penalty stroke for rollin' backwards into that #$%^# ditch. Oh well, such is life!! That's why we call it "golf". Griff
Here's my comments on "shorter courses take more skill" and "deuce-or-die" holes. These comments are in no way directed at any individual person or course. The current thread made me think about some things that I had already been thinking about.

Most courses that I've played (most MS courses) are pitch n' putt, literally. Your first landing zone on the hole is the green. This gets just as old as having all 450'-wide-open-rip-your-arm-off holes. Most short "deuce-or-die" holes offer little to no variety. No risk vs. reward. After a while, no fun.

I walk up to the hole and I know what disc I'm going to pull out and how I'm going to throw it before I even step on the tee. I recommend everyone read John Houck's course design articles. They really give you something to think about. [circularproductions.com]

Particularly this one [circularproductions.com]

At my home course (Lake Lowndes in Columbus) there are only a couple of holes that make me think and try new things. Sometimes I'm successful and the risk pays off, other times not. Either way it adds to the fun, and fun is what it's all about.

Comparisons can obviously be drawn from ball golf. The green can be reached only on three or four holes on a ball golf course. Longer holes don't necessarily leave the short arms high-and-dry. Strategy comes into play alot more.

Read the article; you'll see what I'm saying.

Cheers,

-Kary
kary, i couldn't agree with you more, too bad more course designers don't agree with us. it's sad that so many players will whine about a course being too long, or too difficult. doesn't anyone appreciate a challenge? or do you want to be spoiled on the course like your parents spoiled you for years and made you think life is easy? do you want to throw a roc on every hole or do you want to grow up and throw like a man with a driver in your hand? what is so wrong with a little imagination on your course or do you want every hole to be the same like some communist dream? wouldn't you rather play a course where you had to use every disc and shot in your bag or do you want to brag that you shot a ten under when your grandma who's got a bad hip and an oxygen tank shot a seven under yesterday?
Amen Kary and Mikey...although I do want to throw a Roc on every hole. I just wanna be able to chuck it 400 ft to nail the first landing area on a par 4 hole! =8)
Mr Coffey, i hope you realize that the Zinger had nothing to do with me starting this thread. i just thought i'd rub it in a little.

anybody can get on here and talk all kinds of trash.
you can shoot 25 under or nail 4 aces in a tournament.

but if you want people to respect you... GROW UP!
Hey now, golf is for FUN. If Highland isn't your game, come try Greenwood, it is more like a birdy fest than H-land is, although I shot under par from the yellows, and I don't do that offen. And I still shoot over par at H-land on a more regular basis than I care to admit. For Zinger to shooy a six down, I'd a loved to see it, because although he does have the game, he can very rarely put it all together in a round. (Sorry Whippersnapper, no 'dis intended)

So enjoy all courses, my favorite at Mobile is Cottage Hill, just because it is sooooo challenging, and the bogue, you just want double didgets under to feel like you had a decent round.

My next course (BREC willing) will be fassioned with Rivendel in mind, as well as trying to get all out of a golfer that I can. Tax the mind and shoot lights out!

Later,
Willy TD
where's the love Baton Rouge? why y'all got to be so hostile all the time :) ...peace is the way, remember all of us, your poor friends in the disc golf third world who don't have highland road to play every day. no one can be as cool as you guys, and we know it, so we have to make jokes about you so we can feel like we actually mean anything to the disc golf world.
What you talkin' Mikey-mike? I thought I was givin' you some love by wanting to fassion my next course in the style of Rivendell. And yes, we are blessed here in BR, but you have Blessed Lettuce!
The Zinger
Re: was there a TREE IN THE FAIRWAY?
March 05, 2003 09:33PM
tree in the fairway

I hope your just joking again.
tree in the fairway
Re: was there a TREE IN THE FAIRWAY?
March 06, 2003 07:37AM
I'm not looking for respect, so put that remark back into your bag.

Truth is, there were lots of "par" holes. In fact, I'll go as far as saying the course is a par course, it's not designed to yield low scores. Sure, anyone can just throw the driver 300ft and then thrown another up-shot to make par, but that's BORING.

Quote: do you want to throw a roc on every hole or do you want to grow up and throw like a man with a driver in your hand?

Why don't you explain to me what throwing a driver has to do with throwing like a man? I'll answer your question though. Yes, I'd rather walk up to hole number *insert your favorite here* and guide a smooth Roc through the woods for 250-300ft. I'll bet that most pros do, you'll find distance comes from accuracy, and most who can throw it 500 cannot hit the broad side of a barn in the woods from 250.
That's where you are wrong. Long arms have the advantage of being able to throw mid ranges and putters on shorter holes for control shots and not having to throw drivers. I can't help but laugh to myself when I walk up to a 275' hole and guys are pulling out Valkyries and I am trying to decide which Roc to throw. Come out in the light, come to the Windy Hills open, and tell me how easy that (snicker) 300' drive, 100'+ approach, and putt is in the wind.
yeah right, those holes you call boring par holes are alot more fun when you finally learn how to throw a driver and birdie them.

to be a good golfer you must play well on any type course, in any condition.
Tony Bass
Re: was there a TREE IN THE FAIRWAY?
March 06, 2003 08:23AM
You guys make me laugh!!!!
tree in the fairway
Re: was there a TREE IN THE FAIRWAY?
March 06, 2003 09:16AM
Who's wrong? I agree with you about those who throw Valks, Birds, whatever, in the woods.

You guys have all the fun you want throwing your arms off playing golf out there. I prefer and was prepared for what I thought was going to be a course more like that of the Bogue, possibly a bit longer like Cottage Hill, NOT Muni on steriods.

I've shot 5-7 unders at Muni with Cutler so many times I can't count. I have game to compete with anyone playing. I wasn't prepared and I played like someone who plays once a week on a monster course.

I hope you all come for the tournament in Mobile this weekend.
Tree,

First, I'll grant that different people simply like different styles of courses. Also, I think a lot of people favor the type of course they on which they learned to play. I learned on Highland and struggled on wooded courses until I intentionally learned to throw controlled shots. Now, I have a reasonably long arm with pretty good control, from putters to rocs to drivers.

Highland suffers from the same problems that plague many of the courses in the southern national region and other areas. There's little room for imagination, and little risk vs reward. It's not that playing for par on long holes is any more or less boring that playing for two on a bunch of short holes. A series of 225-275 ft shots through wooded fairways for a string of easy twos is no more exciting than a series of wide open 375-425 ft shots for three. It's how much you are challenged to think about your shot selection.

What makes the game exciting and a mental challenge is when you have to decide whether to go for a two with much higher risk (to take a four or worse) or take a much safer three. Based on the comparatively few courses I've played around the region (16), there are few holes that really offer options to balance risk and reward, to make you think about your game and how well you're playing that day.

Such holes and courses require considerable thought. Read the articles by John Houck. Kary posted the link up-thread. Courses should have a good balance of long and short holes, open and tight, and they should require a range of shot types. Holes should have multiple options that allow you to take the risk and go for it, or play safe and lay up. No middle ground. This tests whether you are a "complete" golfer or can only get by in the woods on 250 ft holes.

Also, look around at some of the favorite courses listed by the top pro players. I think you'll find that most pros don't like repetitive holes. Look at the pictures for Gran Canyon, for Delaveaga, for Mt. Airy, and for Renaissance Park, four of the most commonly listed favorite courses by Climo, Todd, Schultz, Korver, the Winnicrew, etc. Then there's the Winthrop Gold Course used for the USDGC Championship, a perennial top-ranked course. All of these course have balance and they provide a challenge to both the physical and mental game. Pros specifically choose tournaments played on these courses because of the challenges presented.

Delaveaga: [www.jahr.net]
Gran Canyon: [beerdisc.freeyellow.com]
Mt. Airy: [www.cincinnatidiscgolf.com]
Renaissance Park: [www.charlottedgc.com]
Winthrop: unfortunately, no online pics. Have to see the USDGC videos.

It's for reasons like this that I, along with others here, have pushed for USDGC-style out-of-bounds on Highland. I really like Highland but it can be so much more.

Respectfully,

Mike
will, if you notice, we were typing our messages at the same time, i was referring to your protege's bitter 'tudes, thanks for the props on the 'dell baby. and answer your flippin e-mail, are you gonna run a tournament at the BUGGANEER on the 22nd, or should i run the Lafreniere Wide Open that day? peace out to all my homeys on the d.g. tip y'all.
i don't think that anyone really likes all the "fake lakes" or rope at the USDGC, i know i think fake lakes and mandatories on any course are pretty stupid. the Gold course has a lot more to offer than fake lakes, i think that is why it is popular.

anyway, as far as Highland goes, i have suggested and will reiterate here that the course could actually be re-designed in light of the tremendous loss of vegetation on the course. "Heresy" i can hear some b.r.polesmokers say now, but it's not such a bad idea. :) use some imagination and Highland road can be a course where you have to have more than 4 discs in your bag. go ahead and dish some trash my way y'all, i'm man enough to take it.
I meant you were wrong about the long arms not being able to play in the woods. I personally like the woods (I won't really consider myself a long arm until I reach 500') but I don't want to play there all the time. I agree with Goby that a mix is good. However, when you are talking about courses that have a good mix, I have played Renaissance Park in Charlotte, and the shorter holes are still close to 300'. There is a big difference between tossing a putter 220 to a safe spot in the woods to throwing 350' to a pin or ending up 20' down in the bottom of a gorge. I've said it before and I will say it again, @#$%& near everything you can do inside of 300 feet has been done somewhere. I am sure I haven't seen it all yet, but it is always nice to go to a course and see something and not be able to say "This plays just like hole 11 at _______ Park."
For a pretty good shot of one of the holes at Renaissance, check out the "Various Courses" section at [www.wildcattrace.webhop.net] for a look at hole 2 there. The shot is from the Am tee (as best I remember), from the Pros you have a narrow path through the woods with the biggest poplar tree I have ever seen in your way. And if you follow the link Goby posted above, you will see a picture from 18's pin that looks bakc down the fariway. This is an awesome course. And oh yeah, that third shot on that page is me nailing a birdie putt on hole 4 at Renaissance.
Crow, the link I posted for Rennie has links to pictures for all 18 holes. Wicked looking course. When you played Rennie, was it during a tournament? Which one? I'd like to try to make a tourney there next year.
Mikey, I agree about mandos. They generally limit options, even when necessary for player safety (e.g., Highland 12). Ropes and other "artificial" OB can really help out an otherwise plain course, IMO. For example, lots could be done at Highland 4 by using rope to restrict the width of the fairway, say between 275 and say, 375 ft. (I'm assuming orange tees for now). The rope would funnel down and then out from those ranges. After 375 you'd perhaps still have a relatively narrowed landing area. So, if you have the booming arm, you can throw it past the 375 but you'd still must have accuracy to hit the landing area. Or, you can lay up at 260 ft, then take your next shot across.

That's just off the cuff; so much more could be explored and tried across the course. I agree that Highland could use some toughing up. I'm not at all against a redesign but I'm sure it would be met with a fair amount of resistance from the regulars. We have multiple tee pads. Now we need multiple pin placements.
The Zinger
Re: was there a TREE IN THE FAIRWAY?
March 06, 2003 12:01PM
Stick in the mud,

Stop bashing because you throw like a freakin girl. next time play Pro Women. I thought you said you played Open since you average a 3 under. Why then did you play Adv? Grow some balls and throw farther. All but holes 2, 4, 8, and 18 are potential birdies. I have birdied all but hole 4. Of course I can't do that on an average basis, but that's why I'm not a pro. And if you so so good, why did't you tell us who you where on Sat. I didn't even know you showed up. I didn't find out that you where there until Mon. I figured if you had such a prob with me then you would have at least said something to me instead of writing it on here. I have done nothing wrong to you, so what's your prob?
R. A.
Re: was there a TREE IN THE FAIRWAY?
March 06, 2003 12:16PM
Dudes, ya'll need to chill! I know Terry very well, Tree in the Fairway I have no idea who you are, but as Rodney King said, "Can't we just all get along"! I could sit here and tell Terry not to make comments like how you play like a "freakin girl", or "play Pro Women" but it is a free country, that is you God given right to voice your opinion, but disc golf is about having fun, so take a chill pill, and quit taking everything so personally, and better yet, loose the attitudes, we all have good rounds as well as bad, so what, and who cares if you can throw a putter 450 feet, or so what if you prefer a driver, so what if you prefer a wooded course over a wide open course, I mean WHATEVER!

Peace, love and happiness,
Robin
vl
Re: was there a TREE IN THE FAIRWAY?
March 06, 2003 12:21PM
anyone who uses the term "throw like a girl" has never seen des reading throw a drive.

:^p
The Zinger
Re: was there a TREE IN THE FAIRWAY?
March 06, 2003 12:32PM
lol, very true VL

I never said it was an insult.
I got beat by beat by a woman at Cossar, lotsa guys did. Very humbling, but she was apparently a better wind player than I. I won local doubles with a female (15-year-old!) partner last weekend. RwC
CHICKS RULE!!! Griff
Of course the above comment is with all the sweetest intent. Griff
R. A.
Re: was there a TREE IN THE FAIRWAY?
March 06, 2003 03:08PM
Thanks for supporting/defending the "girls"! You guys are to sweet :)

See ya,
Robin
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