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Southern National Tags

Posted by Just 2 It 
Southern National Tags
May 22, 2003 11:51AM
Hello All!

Recently I had to relinqish my precious SN tag # 23 to Griff for #171 YUK! This was due to the automatic challenge during 1st round. Then when I was giving out prizes for bag tags I realized out of 11 women at the ASC Barbara Daniels and I were the only women with SN Tags. I think more women would have tags if they were a different color and we didn't have to compete with the men for them. Or maybe just allow the women to decline the challenge from THE BOYS.

I am only trying to get more women involved. I think the bag tags are great! I like the FUN & competition that it brings to the course.

Just my thoughts!

LOOK out fellas I am searching for a lower tag # at Cossar CrossOver!

Happy Golfing!
Lori
Re: Southern National Tags
May 22, 2003 11:58AM
Speaking of tags, the new season is nearly upon us. Will new tags be made? If so, I'd suggest looking into the source that Memphis used for their tags. Those are some very nice looking bag tags.
Re: Southern National Tags
May 22, 2003 12:07PM
WOULD IT BE VERY HARD TO SELL THE TAGS BY DIVISION?FOR INSTANCE THE AM AND ADV GROUPED TOGETHER YOU COULD ALSO INCLUDE ADV MASTER. THE NEXT GROUP WOULD BE OPEN,OPEN MASTER, AND GRAND MASTER. THE PROBELY AM AND OPEN WOMEN. THE ONLY PROBLEM WOULD BE THE CHALLANGES. IF A MAN CANT CHALLANGE A WOMAN THEN A PRO SHOULDNT BE ALLOWED TO CHALLANGE AN AM.
vl
Re: Southern National Tags
May 22, 2003 12:20PM
keep in mind that the tags are a fundraiser. a really solid performer of a fundraiser, at that.

every thing else is just icing on the cake. it is all about fun.

i really liked the way it involved everyone in one big bag # challenge-- is my point.

and if you think about it-- water seeks its own level.

in other words a woman competitor might have a three digit number -- and that still would be the lowest tag in her division...

however, the majority should rule. there is a bag tag committee +/- and they have good intentions and seemed open minded.

IN MY OPINION.... the bag tags are all about helping the SN Finals host city with some $-- moreso that "hey i got the biggest johnson and the lowest tag#" :^p
Re: Southern National Tags
May 22, 2003 01:11PM
Well I can say one of the two reasons I do not have a bag tag is that very reason....it is with a sense of pride that a person has a lower bag tag and since I cannot compete with any of the guys...I would always have a high bag tag number....I could not get happy about that....

I do not mind using it as a fund raiser and paying for that ....if I did have the money (which right now....I do not).....but I think that it would get more women to play if they were competing for their own....you still would have the pro women against the am women but that would be okay....with me....to have to compete against another woman..

I think that you could have one for the guys and then one for the girls...no matter what division they played in....yes there are some girls who can play just as well as the guys....but for me those are few and far between....I would support having separate for girls and guys...and who knows....it might bring more ladies into it...and be more money for fund raising to do this....


Just my opinion,


Beth
Re: Southern National Tags
May 22, 2003 01:56PM
Sure I vote for pink bag tags for the women.
I imagine that it was a good fund raiser. I understand that it was the first year and you have an idea of how many to buy for next year. I would suggest that you invest a little more into the tags for a better looking tag though.
They aren't nearly flashy enough. LOL

Re: Southern National Tags
May 22, 2003 02:11PM
keep in mind this year we will have much better tags and we will start selling them at the s.n.c. at the ams s.n.c. if you have the lowest bag tag you are the bag tag champion in that divisions.we will have nice prizes for each division. it will be interesting to see what those # will be. now go ace one for me. jim
Re: Southern National Tags
May 22, 2003 02:16PM
JIM,

Cannot wait to see you in Huntsville....What do you think of having the different bag tags for the women and the men...do you think it would be a good idea or do you think that just to have the lowest overall would be good...

what I am thinking about was....for example in Memphis...they gave prizes away for the lowest sn numbers...only one prize was for a woman....it is in situations like that that I feel it is sorta unfair because we have to compete against the guys for the lowest....if for example they had separate prizes...for girls and guys that were comparable...then that would be more fair....I think....

I realize that the bag tag champion for each division will be at the championships but...for those nice people who award prizes during the year at tournaments such as Griff was nice enough to do...I would think it would be more fair that way....


Beth
Re: Southern National Tags
May 22, 2003 08:32PM
I believe we should have only one "division" of tags but having separate tags for the ladies and men is a good idea.

As Vic points out, it is a great fund raiser and, if we would raise more funds by having two, let's do it!

As for having them more "flashy", I'm not sure I want my number seen that easily...;-(

#130 and counting...

Re: Southern National Tags
May 22, 2003 10:10PM
Hello all

I think the bag tags are great idea for the fund raiser. That was not my point. My point is more ladies would buy the tags if they knew the fellas couldn't challenge them to take the tag.

Happy Golfing!
Lori

PS GRIFF Dicky said he has won my tag several time but he refused to take it from a GIRL! LOL Slaw
Griff
Re: Southern National Tags
May 22, 2003 11:19PM
I talked with Bill in AR after that tag passing...in all honesty I felt bad because I played like ....welll we all know...and the tags passed anyway. My idea was that next year, if a lady bought a tag, she should get a regular one(green) and a ladies tag (Pink)...this way no ladies are offended(green pass as all tags do and pink ones pass only between the ladies)...just a thought. IMO I didn't deserve to have Lori's tag...c'est la vie!!

I'm sure it'll be hard to hold at Huntsville!! Griff
Robin
Re: Southern National Tags
May 23, 2003 08:32AM
In my opinion, I don't think we should have separate tags for men and women, if you want a lower tag you gotta work for it. I've taken a couple lower tags from men, granted I don't hold to it very long, nor does it happen that often, but it has and can happen, I just recently, as in this past weekend lost bag tag #42 which I held on to for a few tourney's to John K., @#$%& you John Kittrell for having bag tag number 177, what is a pro man doing with a bag tag number that high? :)(I am totally kidding with John) So you see, that's the fun part and it's all for a good cause, the Southern Nationals. I don't think it would hurt to have separate tags, but I don't think that was the original intent. I'm just curious, has anyone heard of seperate bag tags for men and women where ever it is they orignated or are most popular? However, if having separate tags would increase the sales, then that to is in the best interest of the Southern Nationals, but personally, I like it the way it is, but I'm flexible!

See ya,
Robin
Re: Southern National Tags
May 23, 2003 08:40AM
I must say that....for at least me.....I have never been able to ever beat a man in any tournament at all.....the only way that I could ever beat a man...was if I was given a handicap....and so....if it were me I would not buy a bag tag and have not bought one because of that situation....the bag tags yes are something to work for but....it really gets disheartening when you can NEVER beat a man...and constantly stay the bottom of the barrell...the only way I would ever hold onto a tag was not take a challenge....

I know that with certain women I do have a chance....and would be more willing to buy one and compete against them for this...I think it would be more fair that way....

Just my opinion,

Beth
vl
Re: Southern National Tags
May 23, 2003 10:02AM
robin asked: has anyone heard of seperate bag tags for men and women

not that i have seen. i have seen quite a few different bag tag challenges all around the USofA (i'm the guy that suggested the SN-BTC to jimo)

other areas, from what i have seen-- have no special tags for femmes-- nor any "fixed rules" about women and men competing for tags.

all the other BTC's kinda take it on a case by case basis because of the widely varying skills women have... in other words, some women in the position that robin is in-- and others perhaps in the situation beth finds herself.

and at the higher skill levels, who is gonna tell someone like Des Reading she needs a girls tag-- when she beats half the guys at every event. (pro guys)

roflmao. whoohoo i tied her at the last event i saw her at AT THE WILLY @ TOM BASS. (VERY tough course)

that girls got game i tell ya.

sorry... anyway,

i don't claim to have the answers to this situation, but we all want folks like beth to be happy about participating and not condemn female players to tag #200--merely because of skill level differences between most men and women.

perhaps give extra latitude for femmes to turn down challenges?

or maybe have two colors of tags, but still allow folks like robin to jump into the mens side of the challenge? (it would be logistically more realistic to somehow color them after obtaining the new batch of tags... color the back of the tag? just an idea...)

again, i don't claim to have the answers... just tryin' to pitch in with ideas.





Re: Southern National Tags
May 23, 2003 10:40AM
Hello all!

I don't mind having to play the men for the tags. How do you think I got # 23 the first time. Tammy Kleminsky and I have switched that tag back and forth all year. IMO more women would buy the tags if they had their own.

Hey Griff! Just giving you a hard time about the tag. I know the rules and you are supposed to take it don't feel bad about it. Its all in good fun anyways.

More women means growth of the sport.

Hey! How about Anaka Sorenstam and her 1 over round yesterday! Girl Power!

Love all you guys and thanks for the input!

Happy Golfing!

Lori
Re: Southern National Tags
May 23, 2003 10:51AM
Lori,

We have seen more women playing in these SNDG tournaments than I have ever seen and yes by us getting our own tags you might see these women who have been playing join into the tags more if they had their own...

You are one of the great women's promoters and so is Addie...I think that the Southern Nationals has brought out more women playing than in a long time....the lowest amount of women I have seen in a tournament I have played in this year probably is about 5 of them.....

Girl Power....

Beth
vl
Re: Southern National Tags
May 23, 2003 11:06AM
how about this...

lets estimate that 30 women will be involved with the annual SN.BTC

take tags #1 thru #30 and make those the femme tags.

ladies first.

i'd be curioius to see what that does to the collective male ego. roflmao.
(i'm joking around here)
Re: Southern National Tags
May 23, 2003 11:16AM
lol that is great.....yeah....and give us the right to refuse challenges...hmmmmm I could see this working.......


Beth
Griff
Re: Southern National Tags
May 23, 2003 11:53AM
My thought of two tags for the ladies was intended to take care of Both Robin's and Beth's very valid points of view...the regular green tags would change like always, but the second tag would be ladies only. IMO it would promote ladies competition while recognizing Lady Pro's would still be treated as Pro's.....and heck, they should be!! I guarantee i have lost many a round to the ladies(i.e. Lori at Cossar dropped a -4 and beat 2/3 of the entire field(me included!!)Griff
Re: Southern National Tags
May 23, 2003 12:36PM
Griff,

That is a great solution! Hope Jim or John reads you suggestion and considers it. I was only thinking about the women and how to get them more involved with the tag challenges.

Happy Golfing!
Lori
Re: Southern National Tags
May 23, 2003 12:38PM
I would agree with the suggestion that Griff makes....

that would work for me....


Beth
Re: Southern National Tags
May 23, 2003 12:43PM
maybe I could just print this thread off and take it to Jim in Huntsville and let him see our ideas and discuss it....too....


Beth
Re: Southern National Tags
May 23, 2003 12:45PM
heheh.. you said Print
blueboy
Re: Southern National Tags
May 23, 2003 12:47PM
This could only pertain to my local area but these tags are starting to mount a lot of tensions and attitudes between people. I have gone from 176 to 25 to 195 to 36 and everywhere in between. Inconsistent play will do that to you.

But I have noticed that some people are reluctant to put thier low chip on the line, even going as far as to avoid the parks altogether. Names are not necessary. I can see that someone may want to hold on to a low chip that they have just won, declining an immediate challenge for it just after they've won it. Call it a grace period. I do, however, think that some players invest a little too much importance in them. Plastic is not a precious substance.

Another potential problem that I've noticed is that independent groups of tags have started to spring up all over the place. In theory, this is a great thing. Money is being raised for a lot of different tournaments. However, players' clubs should be cautious about this as flooding the market with 60 different kinds of tags could lead to a loss of interest.
Re: Southern National Tags
May 23, 2003 12:47PM
that is true.....sorry that I said your name without proper capitalization.....

Beth
PDGA 4110
Re: Southern National Tags
May 23, 2003 01:03PM
The bag tags are pretty cool and we are working on the 2003-2004 bag tags.

I have noticed some people do place more importance on the tags than other people. When I was in memphis I played in a group with #1 and #2, and I was getting challenged @4 holes into the round which I accepted.. The bag tags are fun.

The SN in my opinion has no control and shouldn't have any control over local bag tags. As shown with Memphis (you get a bag tag with membership) it can generate interest in your club from people other than locals (I got mine) and raise more money than they would have without them. People are competative. I think the bag tags are here to stay.

The idea of seperate bag tags for the men and women is a good idea and if Jim hasn't seen it here I'll mention it the next time I see him. There is nothing that can't be improved on..
John k
Re: Southern National Tags
May 23, 2003 01:19PM
John might be our furthest Memphis Member...unless Matt Orum is... Hopefully someone from Memphis can go to Huntsville and get Memphis Bag Tag #2 back from Matt and back in Memphis! How sad!
Robin
Re: Southern National Tags
May 23, 2003 01:21PM
Griff,

I like that idea as well, and I think that work out just fine. Lori and Beth, your right, more women would participate in the bag tag if it were changed, and it would make it more fair for the girls. See what happens when everyone puts on there thinking caps! Go Anika!!!!! I hope she makes the cut today.

Robin
blueboy
Re: Southern National Tags
May 24, 2003 07:47PM
I played with two women today. They seemed to be open to the idea of women's tags. They were, however, not amused by the idea of making them pink.
Re: Southern National Tags
May 24, 2003 11:09PM
Well,it is time to chime in and give my .90 cents worth. The 200 tags we got for this season are GONE. that is $3000 dollars for the SNDGC's, and I see us needing 300 next year. This is the same thing I hear from some of the guys too. It would take all the fun away from the "group challenge" if we start trying to divide the tags between the divisions, or different colors.

Remember that no matter what # you have, that the lowest # in EACH division WILL get a new tag declaring them the #1 bag tag holder of that division.

At our Sunday handicap league, we let the women use their handicap for the tag challenge on that day (something we are experimenting with) so that it brings things closer. I think Laff. also uses some kind of handicap system. The only time that wouldn't work is in tournaments.

What is more important, putting the same groups together in a tournament every round so that they may do tag challenges with in their own group, or mixing up the divisions so that the beginers and novices can get a chance with a pro or masters player and get pointers, and experience playing in a tournament?

Peace,
Willy BT





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