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What are you SN Amateur players going to do next year?

Posted by Ching Lizard 
Hey guys,

The PDGA is implementing a new AM player system next year. What is SN planning on doing about it?

The biggest issue surrounding the whole thing will be how to handle a new player that walks up to one of the tourneys who has never played in a sanctioned event above the AM Intermediate division before. (Their scores don't seem to generate a player rating.)

I get a player rating (albeit a poor one) because I play in Advanced Master division. The bottom line is that in order to have a player rating which determines which AM division you get to play in, you have to have a PDGA Player rating score. You only get player ratings by playing in a division of at least AM Advanced (as it is currently known) or above.

Is SN going to follow suite with player ratings or AM division changes like the PDGA?
hey ching,

the SN series has never calculated player ratings.

there is a SN points system that works the same as a ctier, as far as points being awarded to SN competitors.

at the SN Finals each year they award a disc with a very cool SN logo, players name and the # of points accumulated over the season. i am fairly sure they award these discs are awarded in all divisions except novice and juniors.

the "plaque discs" are awarded 8 players deep? i think it used to be 10 deep...

the points can be seen @
[sndg.org]

the divisions offered in the SN series are listed there... and i doubt those will change regardless of what the PDGA does.
Wwworker - I wasn't talking about the points system. That I would expect to stay the same because it is equivalent to the way Worlds invitations are determined.

I'm talking about the new divisional stuff like Am Open, Am Expert, Am Advanced, Am Novice etc...
I think the SN should stay like it is. The PDGA is just clouding everything up and making it more confusing in my opinion but of course I expressed that over at the PDGA messege board. :D

Those new AM rules would only come into play in large tournaments anyway.

The last SN event only had 3 Advanced. This if they added 3 or 4 new AM Divisions. Crazy!

Brad
like i said, i doubt that the SN will change divisional names regardless of what the pdga does.
we have no plans on doing it ,we would vote on it before we would do a thing like that . right now td have enought stuff to do , remember they do not get paid , adding more makes no sense at all .not to say if it works out we would take a look at it. jim
Hey Jim. The TD's everywhere have too much stuff to do and worry about, and none of the PDGA type TD's get paid either!

I wasn't trying to stir anything up, I was just wondering if you SN players were doing something similar.

I'm afraid that I don't know too much about you folks, and what I have picked up, I've gotten from Victor LeBlanc, Todd Traylor and from Mitch during my visit to the LA Open.

I know that some of the LA folks are thinking about coming over to Houston for the Gulf Coast Championship thing in the Houston area. I'd like to see more interaction between the Louisiana/Alabama players and the Texas ones.

If you guys were going to do something similar, then it probably be easier, but now I'm going to see if I can dig up something to give the SN players some idea about what this new AM divisional is supposed to look like.

Thanks for the response!

P.S. I got to meet your son at LA Open. He's quite a nice guy and quite a thrower too!
Oops! I said Mitch, but it was actually Will T. that I talked with...
zplasticmaster
Re: What are you SN Amateur players going to do next year?
October 23, 2002 09:24PM
I would just like to say there ARE Disc Golfers in MISSISSIPPI, and we're @#$%& good too. So in the future let's try to include MISSISSIPPIANS in any
SNC chit chat. We do exist you know, and we want R-E-S-P-E-C-T.
See everyone @ the HOWLER. We will be the ones with all the Hard Wood and Shiny Plastic.

HUB CITY SKY VALET
Sorry Valet! I didn't mean to exclude you - I just wasn't sure how to spell Mississipi though! Any of you Mississipians thinking about coming to Houston for the Gulf Coast Championships events?

You can find out more scoop on them at the HFDS website at this URL :

[www.hfds.org]

Personally, I think we ought to canvas all of the snow-birds in Canada, Michigan and Minnesota (did I spell that state right?) to get them down here for one last taste of warm weather! :-)
Okay guys, here's some poop I scraped off the PDGA website. It isn't official or anything, but it comes from some guy in AZ that is pretty involved on the organizational side.

Use this in case you are considering the Gulf Coast Championship events...

For Amatuers without a rating, here are your recommended divisions:
If you shoot +10 or higher, play Rec
If you shoot +6 to +9 play Int
If you shoot +2 to +5 play Adv
If you shoot -2 to +1 play Expert
If you shoot -3 or lower play Open.
all courses are different
i might shoot a -6 at Chickasaw on avg, but a -2 to +2 at Highland Rd
Ching, I appreciate what the PDGA is trying to do, but 15 am divisions on top of the open, masters and pro women seems like an awful lot of extra work for already overworked TDs. Not to mention all the prize packets that will have to be put together. Seems to me the PDGA is trying to complicate things and I'm glad Jim is taking a wait and see attitute toward this.
T/A
IMO---most of the problems that the SNC has is being taken care of. Most people I know like the system just fine.

We don't need to be like the pdga to be better, our people are what makes SN so good, the SN series is just a bonus!!!!!!!!!!
Well put, Zing. I agree. The only thing I'd like to see improved in SNDG is the posting of points and up to date standings. Still, SN seems to be free of a lot of the type of BS common to the PDGA board. RWC
John Kittrell
Re: What are you SN Amateur players going to do next year?
October 24, 2002 07:23AM
The points are improving even though you can't see it yet. Of the 18 tournaments to date the points have been updated for 15 of them. The web guy has been sent the info and should be posting the new point total any day. I check every morning. I believe once everything is up that the points will be updated every couple of weeks.
John k
Zing, 15 AM divisions is a lot! I know that the TD (John Edwards) is limiting how many he will be offering in the Gulf Coast events. I think he's planning on 3 AM divs for men, and 2 for women which isn't substantially different than the old system or what is typically offered any way. I know that Edwards isn't offering any age-protected div.s (Probably because he isn't of Masters age yet! :) )

The whole reason why they are doing this is because players have demanded some way of getting a handle on sand-bagging in the AM divisions. On paper it sounds okay, but the Gulf Coast events will be the first tournaments being run using the new AM system. We're all just taking the "wait and see" attitude about it.

That being said, something has to be done about sand-bagging. We had an AM player at Texas States that would've won Advanced and would've placed in Pro Open. That guy was playing in the same division as a buddy of mine that was playing in his very first tournament.

I posted the guidelines above to give folks some idea about where they might fit in the new AM division structure. I know that some courses are easier than others. The guideline is only intended to give some rough idea about where a player might fit in. I myself have a rating of 874 which puts me in the top bracket of the AM Advanced category. I'm anxious to see how I stand up against others that play in that division. Who knows?
I am wanting to come out there for some of those tournayments. I too would play in the Am Advanced.
i got the pdga renewal form today.

it is kinda confusing-- in that they say there are less AM divisions, but the actual list of divisions is HUGE

Advanced
Adv Master
Adv Women
Intermediate
Int Master
Int Women
Recreational
Rec Master
Rec Women
Juniors

how in the heck would a TD justify having that many divisions?
It's 10 division now, but look at section 804.08. Three broad divisions (Advanced, Intermediate, Novice), each of which must be available for all age protected divisions. If you have enough people, you have to offer Intermediate Grandmaster, Advanced Senior Grandmaster, Novice Legend, etc. THEN! Then, you have to offer duplicates of those divisions for women.

Of course, few if any tournaments will have that many people requiring all of those divisions, so far fewer divisions are actually offered in practice. I suspect that in practice, not all of the new divisions will be utilized, either.
The new system has 10 division, but look at section 804.08 for the existing system. Three broad divisions (Advanced, Intermediate, Novice), each of which must be available for ALL age protected divisions. If you have enough people, you have to offer Intermediate Grandmaster, Advanced Senior Grandmaster, Novice Legend, etc. THEN! Then, you have to offer duplicates of ALL of those divisions for women.

Of course, few if any tournaments will have that many people requiring all of those divisions, so far fewer divisions are actually offered in practice. I suspect that in practice, not all of the new divisions will be utilized, either.
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