Justin, we may all represent the SN, but WE are not all voting/making changes. And I would expect the BOD to be held to a slightly higher standard. I know that last one is a stretch. And you still have not explained why the BOD voted to take cash only for the snac exemption. Or is it the 400 being used to make the payout larger/ IE wholesale retail as 400 cash at wholesale = at least double that i retail?

Justin, if you believe that the cancer Kevin is not representing the SN any worse than anyone else, you are about as sharp as a tub of margarine left out on the sun on a hot summer day in September.

Well, so much for the new Board. I tried. I really tried.

Bluff Magee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It must be excruciatingly difficult to have to
> work with someone as demented as Kevin, and yes,
> it is the biggest reason I did not run for
> election despite numerous suggestions I do so. So,
> if there is anything we can do to help you get rid
> of the coward attention whore Kevin from the SN,
> please let us know.


I think the "pot calling the kettle" phrase applies here...


Now to get back to the Board Minutes topic:

I'm glad to see that our new board's first meeting was successful! I, for one, appreciate your willingness to work towards bettering the SN. Leslie did a great job getting the minutes posted so quickly, btw. Taking minutes is NOT an easy task.

From what I can tell, you are all a bunch of level-headed, rational, dedicated people, and I am glad that you are now holding the reins.

I'll do anything I can to help, if I'm needed. Y'all just let me know.

Thanks,
Lindsey Broome

Quote
Kernan
There's more than one possible looter. I don't know who it is, and I didn't say it was you. I did say that you wouldn't be able to loot the kitty (and whoever did wouldn't be able to loot again).

Really? Is that what you REALLY were saying?! Kernan, we all know you WAY better than that. In a civilized society where people actually say what they mean and mean what they say. Your concerns would have been expressed as such:

"While my taking over tracking bag tag sales would certainly eliminate the possibility of the kitty getting looted yet again..."

But instead you made sure to put in some names.. definitely insinuating and implying these people should be scrutinized. The latter sentence is JUST as effective at getting your point across and is much less to type. But doesn't have that accusatory tone that we all know you love to use.

Why don't you just put on your big boy pants and own up to it vs being a coward and trying to hide behind thinly veiled wording.

Quote
Kernan
Leslie, and Justin, I do want to reiterate that I have offered to stop posting if Kevin would stop posting, and I have also offered to step into the boxing ring with Kevin to raise money for the SN or for charity. Kevin, being an attention whore and a coward, has of course refused to help.

If you were ever a man of your word this might have deemed a response from me, hell even Tax Man got a response from his offer to box with me. The problem with your offer is that we know you would never stick to it... it would have to have a contract drawn up by a team of lawyers for you not to try and exploit it. Even still, I am suspect that you would stick to your word because I have yet to see you do that. This exchange right here is living proof that you can't stick to your word about not posting... you already said you weren't going to post on the topic for a week... not 12 hours passed and you were already at it.

Kernan, it has been suggested that you run for the Board PLENTY of times due to your err, "outspoken" nature... you have yet to step up and do so. So don't go and take "hint #1" of your play book and try to make it look like it is someone else's fault that you didn't man up.

Your tactics are tired and transparent.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Take me to the window and understand
I got a rocking chair in my skin.
And every time the wind blows
It brings me down to meet the mood I'm in.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SN Top25 Bag Tag database
BRDGA Top10 Bag Tag database
MADGA Top10 Bag Tag database
SFC Top10 Bag Tag database

Quote
Justin
Money should have been presented up front for the tags before they left JimO's hands.

I disagree... you won't find many clubs willing to do this. Unless we do as Kevin Weiss suggested and let them buy them at a discount ($15).

As long as you keep track of who has what and how many they have sent money in for (or sold) then you should be able to keep from ordering more before they are needed. Those that haven't sold can move them around to someone that thinks they can sell some more when that time comes.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Take me to the window and understand
I got a rocking chair in my skin.
And every time the wind blows
It brings me down to meet the mood I'm in.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SN Top25 Bag Tag database
BRDGA Top10 Bag Tag database
MADGA Top10 Bag Tag database
SFC Top10 Bag Tag database

I need to send in some money for this years bag-tags. Do I send it to Josh or do I hold it until the BOD makes a decision on the bag tags.

Justin,
I tried to sell tags last year, if you try to make people pay for them up front you can order about 50 because that is all you are going to sell.

The only thing that needs to be done is put all the tag numbers on an excel spread sheet and keep account who has what tags. You can also on the sheet put who paid for what. That information can be turned over to the BOD every month or as the BOD see fit. That is if the BOD wants someone outside of the BOD to help with the bag tags.

___________________________________________________________________________
Keith "Sunshine" B



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/16/2010 05:44PM by Keith Bodin.

Tax Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gilligan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > For the record I still said to consider my self
> > absent and have a strike against me (per our
> > attendance policy).
>
>
> why where you absent or late?

Sorry, didn't meant to ignore you or your question.

I got caught up at a job and couldn't get home in time. I did try to log in with my phone but wasn't having any luck (granted it would have been hard to pay attention given the situation.)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Take me to the window and understand
I got a rocking chair in my skin.
And every time the wind blows
It brings me down to meet the mood I'm in.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SN Top25 Bag Tag database
BRDGA Top10 Bag Tag database
MADGA Top10 Bag Tag database
SFC Top10 Bag Tag database

Well at least you did show up! E for effort!

___________________________________________________________________________
Keith "Sunshine" B

Good idea Keith! My reason in saying have the money up front is due to this current situation. The more hands that unpaid merchandise flows through the more problems you'll have. Selling them in bulk for a discount to clubs is a good idea as well.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Justin Tolbert
BHS Disc Golf [www.youtube.com]
Mobile, Alabama

I like that idea because the TD/club director who puts up the money has some incentive to make something for their event/club.

Bluff, this will be my last post on this thread that's in response to your complaints about Kevin. Let's shift this conversation back to the minutes. Your gripes about the BoD, past and present, should go on a different thread. I've participated in the thread-jacking as well. I'm encouraging the other BoD members to cease discussing that topic on this thread as well. If you wish to continue discussing it, pick it up on another thread or send me a PM. I'll be more than happy to talk to you.

Back on topic: Taxman, I wasn't trying to ignore your post. I was on my way home from my toss and couldn't type the whole message I wanted to type on my cell phone. Your concern: "And you still have not explained why the BOD voted to take cash only for the snac exemption."

We voted on making the exemption cash only to encourage players to seek SN points doing the regular season. This does not prevent people from donating merchandise. It does, however, prevent people from obtaining exemption through merchandise donations. Concerns from players have been that it doesn't seem fair for someone who doesn't play in the SN season to come in and take what the SN has raised. However, the sponsorship exemption is a nice addition to the money raised for the SNAC. So, in response to feedback, we decided to increase the exemption requirements but still make it available for fundraising purposes.

Thanks for inquiring about it. Please keep the concerns coming.

*edited to fix a typo. changed "want" into "what"*

_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Justin Tolbert
BHS Disc Golf [www.youtube.com]
Mobile, Alabama



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/16/2010 07:51PM by jtolbert.

jtolbert Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bluff, this will be my last post on this thread
> that's in response to your complaints about Kevin.
> Let's shift this conversation back to the
> minutes. Your gripes about the BoD, past and
> present, should go on a different thread. I've
> participated in the thread-jacking as well. I'm
> encouraging the other BoD members to cease
> discussing that topic on this thread as well. If
> you wish to continue discussing it, pick it up on
> another thread or send me a PM. I'll be more than
> happy to talk to you.
>
> Back on topic: Taxman, I wasn't trying to ignore
> your post. I was on my way home from my toss and
> couldn't type the whole message I wanted to type
> on my cell phone. Your concern: "And you still
> have not explained why the BOD voted to take cash
> only for the snac exemption."
>
> We voted on making the exemption cash only to
> encourage players to seek SN points doing the
> regular season. This does not prevent people from
> donating merchandise. It does, however, prevent
> people from obtaining exemption through
> merchandise donations. Concerns from players have
> been that it doesn't seem fair for someone who
> doesn't play in the SN season to come in and take
> want the SN has raised. However, the sponsorship
> exemption is a nice addition to the money raised
> for the SNAC. So, in response to feedback, we
> decided to increase the exemption requirements but
> still make it available for fundraising purposes.
>
> Thanks for inquiring about it. Please keep the
> concerns coming.

This man is going to be a great asset to SN!!!!

Great response Justin! Looks like the new BOD members are on the same page and looking out for us.

Thank you!!!!

___________________________________________________________________________
Keith "Sunshine" B

Justin, in the case of the SNAC players are playing for prizes and not cash so I do not understand not taking 400 in merchandise instead of cash. In fact I do not think anyone has ever even used the SNAC exemption, but yet you all acted rather quick to change it??? I am not against change, but feel that it is good to have sponsors and unlike other sports most DG sponsors get very little in return. The exemption was a way of giving them something for the donation/cash.


Thanks for your response. And the last thing, before you change stuff make sure you know why the original board did what they did to start with. 250 is better then 2 dollars and 1k is certainly worth more then 2 dollars. Although I doubt we will ever see them used ever again.


I wish my dad could convince people to change every thing that could effect my ability to make money, but that is not the way the REAL world works!!! And if I recall right the majority of the players where in favor of the 1k sponsor. Funny, I thought the BOD served the people that elected them and not do things because they think it is the way to go, but you did say you had all the facts????????

Well, I personally think the exemption on SNACs is a really bad idea period considering we have ZERO way to tell where that player should play.

We have to face it, the SNAC pays out a LOT of prize$$$. $400 would be cheap to bring in a ringer that is practically guaranteed 1st. There are ZERO provisions to keep Ken Climo from coming in under an exemption and playing Adv (or even Ams).

You are the first to talk about the markup of merch... so now $250 in Merch (which is what? $150 in actual cash) can walk in and take over $1k quite easily. I'd rather see someone pony up real cash if they want to sneak into our SNACs.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Take me to the window and understand
I got a rocking chair in my skin.
And every time the wind blows
It brings me down to meet the mood I'm in.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SN Top25 Bag Tag database
BRDGA Top10 Bag Tag database
MADGA Top10 Bag Tag database
SFC Top10 Bag Tag database

If the exemption is used rarely, if at all, then it ultimately doesn't change/affect much. Again, it doesn't deter people from donating. The SNACs will still accept merchandise and any amount of donation. The exemption requirements have changed.

Bringing in a person who has never played an SN tournament would bring up many problems. How do we show/prove that the player belongs in the division that they are being exempted for? I'm not in complete favor of the exemption. However, it's still a great donation amount if it's taken advantage of. I would rather reward the players that have spent time and money participating in the SN, as opposed to rewarding a player for coming in, having a big wallet, and wiping the floor with people he/she has never played with before.

Again, we're trying to do what's best for the SN and protect its investments. We're not going to make decisions that EVERYONE is pleased with. We understand that.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Justin Tolbert
BHS Disc Golf [www.youtube.com]
Mobile, Alabama

Gilligan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, I personally think the exemption on SNACs is
> a really bad idea period considering we have ZERO
> way to tell where that player should play.
>
> We have to face it, the SNAC pays out a LOT of
> prize$$$. $400 would be cheap to bring in a
> ringer that is practically guaranteed 1st. There
> are ZERO provisions to keep Ken Climo from coming
> in under an exemption and playing Adv (or even
> Ams).
>
> You are the first to talk about the markup of
> merch... so now $250 in Merch (which is what? $150
> in actual cash) can walk in and take over $1k
> quite easily. I'd rather see someone pony up real
> cash if they want to sneak into our SNACs.

and the 1k you speak of maybe about 400 in cash :) Ringer as an AM???? how many sponsored ams you know in DG?? I think most people would rather have 400 bucks the a bunch of prizes, half are stuff you maynot even use. But that is just it, the SPONSOR puts up the cash, not the player.

Nikko had plans to play else where before a sponsor asked him to come. Good on the SN to have such a great exemption! And now they have almost matched the price for an exemption to the USDGC!! And they play for 12k not 1800 ;(((

It just seems like the vote was ignored and the series would rather make it harder for sponsors to get something in return for the money. 3/4 times in the history of the SN and bam, a vote on the first meeting. 6 other board members put that in place!!!!! I agree the wording may have needed a slight change. And no loophole was used as one member choose to once again ignore the opinons/vote of many and send a letter to the biggest sponsor to date.

Thanks for the response and the ability to have a discussion with out thinking some one wants to run you off. Just want to know why things are being changed so quickly as it is 352 days till the snpc.

Mike,

Allan gave the tags to Jamie. I sent them to Jamie through Allan. No big deal. Again, there are no missing tags. I'm about to post the financials right now.

Thanks,
Josh

Tax Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In fact I do not think anyone has ever
> even used the SNAC exemption, but yet you all
> acted rather quick to change it???

People have used the SNAC and the SNDC exemptions almost every year. I think (this is memory now) we had 5 SNAC exemptions in Hartselle. My understanding is that Memphis had SNAC exemptions as well. I can remember several SNDC exemptions as well.

Josh

How about the tranparency of who(m) voted which way on the issues that actually went to a vote as all votes were not unanimous.
Thanks

JABBA


it MUST be the plastic

Bob, OVER 1k in prizes that is pretty easy to convert especially if this "sponsor" is a vendor that is looking to score some cheap goods. Making it $400 makes it more along the lines of "no need to take advantage of their exemption to score some cheap goods because it ends up being easier to just buy the goods" At $250 then it becomes a lot more "profitable" for someone to take advantage of our great championships.

If it's all about participating then $400 ain't really that big of a deal... if it's all about playing, then just play in a regular sanctioned tournament.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Take me to the window and understand
I got a rocking chair in my skin.
And every time the wind blows
It brings me down to meet the mood I'm in.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SN Top25 Bag Tag database
BRDGA Top10 Bag Tag database
MADGA Top10 Bag Tag database
SFC Top10 Bag Tag database

Hilltopper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tax Man Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > In fact I do not think anyone has ever
> > even used the SNAC exemption, but yet you all
> > acted rather quick to change it???
>
> People have used the SNAC and the SNDC exemptions
> almost every year. I think (this is memory now) we
> had 5 SNAC exemptions in Hartselle. My
> understanding is that Memphis had SNAC exemptions
> as well. I can remember several SNDC exemptions as
> well.
> did you ever share that info on the forum?? and who where the said players? just so I can see if the took away anymore or less then they sponsored. And I did not know there was one available or used at the SNDC? Every year????
> Josh


Thanks for the response!

Tax Man,
We also considered how much prize the first place winners took. Both the 1st place Advanced and first place Intermediate took home over $1k in merchandise from the SNAC last year. I seemed like too great a bargain to be able to donate $200 in merchandise and win over $1k back. So, again, to encourage points, we make it less enticing to bring in somebody that's not part of the SN. Granted, paying $400 and getting over $1k merchandise is still a bargain.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Justin Tolbert
BHS Disc Golf [www.youtube.com]
Mobile, Alabama

on the $1500 we need to make sure it comes from out side the hosting club and really adds to the pot. Moving around already raised funds adds nothning to the pot., most hosting clubs will raise 6-10 thousand dollars they could say $1500 came from this or that person and let in 3-5 players this will be very harmfull.Please fill all gaps and SN should see a check from who is sponsoring a player. Should be a time limit before the SNC so players know about it. Ever body knows I am for you either have 2 points or you do not play that solves everything. Just my thoughts, Glad new BOD is off to a great start, Jim!

Schedule Skysouth to come to your tournament and provide prizes for your event
using Skybucks. This lets the player choose the prize(s) they want! Also, we will
donate 20% of the amount of Skybucks purchased back to the hosting club!

You can also buy direct wholesale from the Skysouth inventory.

We have nearly 3500 items, ranging from Discs, towels, shirts, bags, caps,
Custom Dyed Discs and more!

PM us for details or contact Jim at (251) 478 0379.

Another thing that I forgot to mention earlier:
We weren't trying to overrule previous BoD decisions but to build on top of them. The SN is growing, and with that comes change. A foundation is just that - a foundation. You have to build on top of the foundation to grow. It's not abandoning what the other BoD members have done. If it were about that, Gilligan and I would have voted to eliminate the exemptions altogether. Things have grown and come to light since the exemptions were put in place.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Justin Tolbert
BHS Disc Golf [www.youtube.com]
Mobile, Alabama

Did anyone debate the real question at hand ? How many exemptions can 4k get you?

SN will always need new and stronger BOD members in the future , I hope this BOD sets a new high standard to challenge the next group in. I bet they will do that. The better this BOD does the more SN will land those few great people ready to lead SN who are standing on the side lines right now. So some of you need to sign up next year we need you. Now go ace one for me, Jim!

Schedule Skysouth to come to your tournament and provide prizes for your event
using Skybucks. This lets the player choose the prize(s) they want! Also, we will
donate 20% of the amount of Skybucks purchased back to the hosting club!

You can also buy direct wholesale from the Skysouth inventory.

We have nearly 3500 items, ranging from Discs, towels, shirts, bags, caps,
Custom Dyed Discs and more!

PM us for details or contact Jim at (251) 478 0379.

Dillion:Did anyone debate the real question at hand ? How many exemptions can 4k get you?

We all had many concerns and talked them out. We discussed the number of exemptions per person or coporation, but there are too many loop holes. So, that is where the idea of a player not being able to use an exemption for two consecutive years came about. I was trying to push for a limit on the total number of exemptions in one championship. I thought three would be a good limit, but we discussed it, and wanted to encourage unlimited exemptions to add more money to the pot. As it has been stated, we discussed this issue for at least an hour or more. Everything was laid out on the table, and our voting was the end result.

Jim, I hear your concern about the exemption money coming from the money raised by the host city. That probably needs to be brought up at one of our next meetings, too!

Leslie

Thanks Leslie, real money adds to the pot, that is the main thing people are missing. IF SN was getting real funds the pot would of been alot larger the last couple years, remember the SN players at all times , that is how we got to where we are now. Players being sponsored in have done nothning to play in the SNC, if those same players would take time to play in a SNQ that would help more than anything. That was part of getting the SNC paying out alot to get players to want to play in a SNQ or a city to host a SNQ., that is the way to grow. We had 2 players in the final four that had no points, I would of rather seen the 5th and 6th player in the finals that had points.Just think if they would show up like Greg B. in pensacola and let the SN players meet him and talk with him, that IS what SN need more than just have them come and take away SN funds. This way it a win win situstion for both. Hope we can fill all loop holes so the hosting clubs can enjoy hosting the SNC. Once again thank for being on the BOD and listening, just some things to think of. Jim!

Schedule Skysouth to come to your tournament and provide prizes for your event
using Skybucks. This lets the player choose the prize(s) they want! Also, we will
donate 20% of the amount of Skybucks purchased back to the hosting club!

You can also buy direct wholesale from the Skysouth inventory.

We have nearly 3500 items, ranging from Discs, towels, shirts, bags, caps,
Custom Dyed Discs and more!

PM us for details or contact Jim at (251) 478 0379.

It's good to see our BOD functioning again, and thanks to everyone who was there and participating.

I do have a significant concern about the decision to give John K the power and role of moderation. Right now, there is not a terms of service for e forums or any other document stating how people are expected to act on these boards. The role of a moderator online is to enforce the community's standards. While many people (me included) believe the forums are currently detrimental to the series, there is not a rulebook for behavior on them. Without the rule book, the moderator can only act on his own opinion of what is right or wrong and that is censorship, not moderation. There needs to be a terms of service or use agreement written before charging someone with the duty of moderating these forums.


There is also the benefit of protecting jinn in his role, so that he can point to the terms instead of saying " I thought that went to far."

I also agree worth the previokusly posted sentiment that board members should be held to a higher expectation of conduct as official representatives of our series. I feel it is inappropriate for board members to go around making personal verbal attacks on users, regardless of how many times they suffer the same.

You are right Curt. Also, if you look at the Board Minutes on the first page of this thread. It states we will be defining what is "appropriate" comments/posts etc. It is hard to decide what is right or wrong, without a definition of...you are totally right. Thanks!