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SN Board Minutes 9/15/10

Posted by lesliez 
Re: SN Board Minutes 9/15/10
September 17, 2010 10:57AM
Quote
Curt
It's good to see our BOD functioning again, and thanks to everyone who was there and participating.

I do have a significant concern about the decision to give John K the power and role of moderation. Right now, there is not a terms of service for e forums or any other document stating how people are expected to act on these boards. The role of a moderator online is to enforce the community's standards. While many people (me included) believe the forums are currently detrimental to the series, there is not a rulebook for behavior on them. Without the rule book, the moderator can only act on his own opinion of what is right or wrong and that is censorship, not moderation. There needs to be a terms of service or use agreement written before charging someone with the duty of moderating these forums.


There is also the benefit of protecting jinn in his role, so that he can point to the terms instead of saying " I thought that went to far."

Give that man a cigar!!!

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Take me to the window and understand
I got a rocking chair in my skin.
And every time the wind blows
It brings me down to meet the mood I'm in.
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Anonymous User
Re: SN Board Minutes 9/15/10
September 17, 2010 11:18AM
So Memphis got cheated out of 3 player exemption spots if I read correctly.

Quote
The holy one
Players being sponsored in have done nothning to play in the SNC, if those same players would take time to play in a SNQ that would help more than anything. That was part of getting the SNC paying out alot to get players to want to play in a SNQ or a city to host a SNQ., that is the way to grow.

JimO , I would rather someone pay $1,000 to the SNPC than 2$ ... I think this is the right logic.

Bigger payouts for the SNPC = growth.

Remember... bigger payouts = bigger payouts for MattO.
Re: SN Board Minutes 9/15/10
September 17, 2010 12:31PM
JIM ORUM Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> on the $1500 we need to make sure it comes from
> out side the hosting club and really adds to the
> pot. Moving around already raised funds adds
> nothning to the pot., most hosting clubs will
> raise 6-10 thousand dollars they could say $1500
> came from this or that person and let in 3-5
> players this will be very harmfull.

so now you want to regulate the host club?? Gee whiz and work they do should be rewarded. and I am not sure about the 6-10k number either. They spearhead the sponsorship campaign and would be the ones to have/want/need selling points to sponsors. They collect they various sponsors. EX: Webb Construction, they may have been approached by the club. And this is INDEED OUTSIDE money

As for the 2 players in the final four being sponsored, they can not use it again next year and based on Nikko's blog he had a great time and sounds like he will find a way back. And with out that money being added I think this years payout would have been well short of the year prior.

Please fill all
> gaps and SN should see a check from who is
> sponsoring a player. Should be a time limit before
> the SNC so players know about it. Ever body knows
> I am for you either have 2 points or you do not
> play that solves everything. Just my thoughts,
> Glad new BOD is off to a great start, Jim!


That may solve the 2 point issue, but still does nothing to help sell sponsorships. So it does not solve everything.

Just sayin

Re: SN Board Minutes 9/15/10
September 17, 2010 12:57PM
Bob, is there no other selling point to sponsoring an SN championship event OTHER THAN getting a player with no points in said event?
Re: SN Board Minutes 9/15/10
September 17, 2010 01:02PM
Russ3523 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bob, is there no other selling point to sponsoring
> an SN championship event OTHER THAN getting a
> player with no points in said event?

well Russ, what does a DG sponsor ever get? I am sure there maybe a few, but to secure one over 1k I would think every little bit helps. And more money is the key not more points as you could go to the Dogwood and get a ton for 2 dollars;)))

Re: SN Board Minutes 9/15/10
September 17, 2010 01:10PM
I still have a problem with stacking the SNPC with players who play NO SN events and end up taking a sizable chunk of the prize money, portions of which was raised by people who played in SN events. It kinda gets away from the original idea of why the SN and the championships were started.
I do not know what individual clubs offer $1k plus sponsors, Bob.
Many sponsors might not have a clue or care about getting a player in the events, just those with a vested interest in getting a player in the event that has a chance to win and doesn't have points.
I have no problem with the BoD raising the exemption and limiting it. I'd have gone with one exemption period per player. If you want to play in the championships, play an SN event.

rWc3523+
Re: SN Board Minutes 9/15/10
September 17, 2010 01:56PM
Right Russ,
Most of the donations and sponsors are not because of them trying to get exemptions.
The primary purpose of this is to keep SN winnings within the SN. If people want to be a part of our championship, they need to put in the effort to play one of our qualifiers. Yes, a player can get just 2 points to qualify for the championships. Others have suggested that we have a 3 tournament minimum and not reward points for DNF. I feel like this decision isn't too drastic. It could have been much more drastic if we considered the 3 tournament minimum and such.

As far as forum moderation goes, we'll make a statement about the guidelines before any action is taken. Personally, I'd like the entire BoD to have admin privileges to remove certain posts. Before that can happen, we'd had to post SPECIFIC guidelines for use of the forums. Any vague guideline that is open to interpretation will just cause more problems.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Justin Tolbert
BHS Disc Golf [www.youtube.com]
Mobile, Alabama
Re: SN Board Minutes 9/15/10
September 17, 2010 02:34PM
Would Slawdog not have sponsored if they couldn't get even a SINGLE exemption? Would Memphis not have raised the money they did if they couldn't have gotten an exemption? I seriously doubt it. It seemed to me that these guys worked hard to raise some money to try and throw a great tournament, not to being in players. So exemptions weren't "needed" for the sponsorships.

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Take me to the window and understand
I got a rocking chair in my skin.
And every time the wind blows
It brings me down to meet the mood I'm in.
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Re: SN Board Minutes 9/15/10
September 17, 2010 02:52PM
Gilligan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Would Slawdog not have sponsored if they couldn't
> get even a SINGLE exemption? Would Memphis not
> have raised the money they did if they couldn't
> have gotten an exemption? I seriously doubt it.
> It seemed to me that these guys worked hard to
> raise some money to try and throw a great
> tournament, not to being in players. So
> exemptions weren't "needed" for the sponsorships.

+1

_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Justin Tolbert
BHS Disc Golf [www.youtube.com]
Mobile, Alabama
Anonymous User
Re: SN Board Minutes 9/15/10
September 17, 2010 03:23PM
They weren't needed, but screwed.
Re: SN Board Minutes 9/15/10
September 17, 2010 03:23PM
I'd have to agree with both of you. I want to see mega money in the SNPC, but not at the risk of the having players with ZERO points dominate the finals. Just my opinion.

rWc3523
Re: SN Board Minutes 9/15/10
September 17, 2010 03:25PM
I am fine with the one time exemption and frankly I doubt we will ever see it used again at 1500. I just think having something to offer is a good thing, but whatever works. Like I said with out the added money this year the SNPC would have fallen way short. And those sponsors thought they where getting exemptions. they added 4/5k the SN pro fees where 3k. {not counting bag tags which are bought by everyone} So had the players played only for fees. They would have been playing for peanuts and Not Almonds!

Just sayin.....





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2010 03:27PM by Tax Man.
Re: SN Board Minutes 9/15/10
September 17, 2010 03:31PM
Can I make a suggestion to the board to outlaw the phrase "Just Sayin"

Im concerned it is an epidemic.

I.E. Your an A$$HOLE.....Just Sayin.

By saying that is should not allow you to get away with murder.

New Saying: you know what I mean Vern.........HAHA

"HOGMAN"
HyZer Nation
Re: SN Board Minutes 9/15/10
September 17, 2010 03:55PM
I know it has been said before, but I'll say it again. If the invited players(ones with the most points) would register early and fill the tournament, then playing in one event and only having two points would not get them in, not getting in because they didn't have enough points should make them want to play in as many events as they can.
Re: SN Board Minutes 9/15/10
September 17, 2010 04:50PM
Tax Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am fine with the one time exemption and frankly
> I doubt we will ever see it used again at 1500. I
> just think having something to offer is a good
> thing, but whatever works. Like I said with out
> the added money this year the SNPC would have
> fallen way short. And those sponsors thought they
> where getting exemptions. they added 4/5k the SN
> pro fees where 3k. {not counting bag tags which
> are bought by everyone} So had the players played
> only for fees. They would have been playing for
> peanuts and Not Almonds!
>
> Just sayin.....


Why wouldn't they be used again... every sponsor that used an exemption this year had over 1500.

The sponsorship should be a way to have a player represent them for recognition... so just because it isn't profitable should have nothing to do with it... they shouldn't be sponsoring for profit.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Take me to the window and understand
I got a rocking chair in my skin.
And every time the wind blows
It brings me down to meet the mood I'm in.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Re: SN Board Minutes 9/15/10
September 17, 2010 05:35PM
Gilligan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tax Man Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I am fine with the one time exemption and
> frankly
> > I doubt we will ever see it used again at 1500.
> I
> > just think having something to offer is a good
> > thing, but whatever works. Like I said with out
> > the added money this year the SNPC would have
> > fallen way short. And those sponsors thought
> they
> > where getting exemptions. they added 4/5k the
> SN
> > pro fees where 3k. {not counting bag tags which
> > are bought by everyone} So had the players
> played
> > only for fees. They would have been playing for
> > peanuts and Not Almonds!
> >
> > Just sayin.....
>
>
> Why wouldn't they be used again... every sponsor
> that used an exemption this year had over 1500.
>

I should have been more clear. Slaw Dog was the first to use the cash exemption. And if the BOD votes to take away the ability for a club or host to use it. That I doubt we will see it as that is the only way it has been used so far {slaw dogs, memphis, Little Rock} There maybe a few more.

> The sponsorship should be a way to have a player
> represent them for recognition... so just because
> it isn't profitable should have nothing to do with
> it... they shouldn't be sponsoring for profit.

I agree but it still has to be worth while for the player as well. Nikko had other plans before getting the exemption and may have done just as well as that payout was not to shabby

Re: SN Board Minutes 9/15/10
September 17, 2010 06:55PM
Taxman,

For Hartselle, we posted every registered player and how they got in if they did not have points (sponsor excemptions, points errors, or TD exemptions). I can't speak for the other events.

Josh
Re: SN Board Minutes 9/15/10
September 17, 2010 08:39PM
Quote

I agree but it still has to be worth while for
the player as well. Nikko had other plans
before getting the exemption and may have
done just as well as that payout was not to
shabby

Well it is "sponsorship" exemptions... So it should be worth it to the player no matter what... If not then they are just buying their way in and that isn't really a "sponsorship exemption" anymore.

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Take me to the window and understand
I got a rocking chair in my skin.
And every time the wind blows
It brings me down to meet the mood I'm in.
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Re: SN Board Minutes 9/15/10
September 18, 2010 12:12PM
Can an exempted player register with the invitees? If not, that means a potential sponsor who wants a guaranteed exemption must wait until the deadline for invitees passes before they sponsor? It also supports Jim’s argument that exemptions for early sponsors (whether they have ties to the hosting club or not) do not bring in new money. In other words, it is less credible to argue exemptions promote sponsorship if the sponsorship occurs at a time when an exemption right is only tentative (depending on invitee sign up).

Do they also have to wait for the point holders deadline?

I disagree with early sponsorship exemptions being only tentative. I also disagree with denying exemptions to sponsors with ties to the hosting club. I do see a potential for abuse but my best guess is that abuse won’t occur at $1,500. Early sponsors should get a guaranteed exemption (treated like invitees for registration purposes).

I do now agree with the increase to $1,500 but I did not until I realized that two (2) exempted open players collectively brought in $2,160 and were paid out $3,051. I think that justified the increase for next year. It more or less guarantees a win-win-win for all.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/18/2010 12:25PM by Discjazz.
Re: SN Board Minutes 9/15/10
September 18, 2010 12:20PM
Quote
DiscJazz
Can an exempted player register with the invitees? If not, that means a potential sponsor who wants a guaranteed exemption must wait until the deadline for invitees passes before they sponsor? It also supports Jim’s argument that exemptions for early sponsors (whether they have ties to the hosting club or not) do not bring in new money. In other words, it is less credible to argue exemptions promote sponsorship if the sponsorship occurs at a time when an exemption right is only tentative (depending on invitee sign up).

I have brought up this issue before.

There is NO precedence on how to handle this.

My personal feelings are that, this is OUR championship and that people with points should have priority.

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Take me to the window and understand
I got a rocking chair in my skin.
And every time the wind blows
It brings me down to meet the mood I'm in.
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Re: SN Board Minutes 9/15/10
September 18, 2010 12:33PM
“people with points should have priority”

With that I totally agree, but if we do that versus $1,500 sponsors what we are saying is that we don’t want their money if they are doing it for the exemption. Maybe we should say that, but we are not yet because we in fact allow the purchase of an exemption. If we are going to allow the purchase of any exemption we should at least allow those sponsoring for that purpose. Otherwise, the exemption never promotes sponsorship.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/18/2010 12:34PM by Discjazz.
Re: SN Board Minutes 9/15/10
September 18, 2010 12:50PM
I agree with JimO on this one No points NO play! Find a SN event some where and play in it if you want to play the SNC. It's really just that simple!

___________________________________________________________________________
Keith "Sunshine" B.
Rumble in Ragley, version 1.0
15 November 2014
Field limited to 90 players
[www.facebook.com]
Re: SN Board Minutes 9/15/10
September 18, 2010 01:22PM
“No points NO play”

I could not object to the fairness of this rule either but having world champions play the SNC and want to play it again has promoted the series in a way money could not. We can reasonably credit that to past sponsorship exemptions. As long as the points-having-players collectively aren’t getting ripped off I am OK with it.

If exempted players are unlikely to win much more money collectively than they bring in, then neither the players collectively, the exempted player or the sponsor are losing anything they bargained for on the deal. Of course there may be individual losers who don’t shoot as well as an exempted player, but let us not make a rule just to avoid competition. The worst case money scenario for the players collectively is when there is only one (1) exempted player (another good reason for the increase to $1,500). If we are going to allow these we really need at least three (3) sponsor exempted players in the Open division to reasonably assure they increase collective pay out to the points-having-players. There is your priority if money is the issue.
Re: SN Board Minutes 9/15/10
September 18, 2010 01:51PM
Quote
Gilligan
You could take your cash (less than 1k) and sponsor said tournament and declare your money make that tournament an SN qualifier and you are putting your money up to pay the $2 bucks a head... might need to put in some extra money to sweeten the deal... but doubt you would need more than 1k for it. Now you just got the SN in a MUCH bigger spotlight and you qualified just about every top pro in the country... now they can all come and play.

Recognition and top players, with no exemptions needed... win win!

Now, that makes even more sense... because it's 1.5k... you know how many big tournaments you could make SN qualifiers with 1.5k!?

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Take me to the window and understand
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And every time the wind blows
It brings me down to meet the mood I'm in.
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Re: SN Board Minutes 9/15/10
September 18, 2010 02:20PM
No doubt, sponsorship by a player for the purpose of an exemption would be the pay-day-loan of SNC qualification. The pure sponsor (the ones we are looking for, exemption or not) will not necessarily get a world champion touting his merchandise by sponsoring an event. A sponsor probably could also coordinate ahead of time with and compensate directly a world champion for cheaper than $1,500. So if the man wants to buy a green suit why shouldn’t we turn on the green light (but sell it for more than cost).
Re: SN Board Minutes 9/15/10
September 19, 2010 03:45PM
Some where along the way we have lost focus on what SN is all about. SN was based on player points and collecting funds through out the year so SN players could play for it at the end of the year. Letting outsiders come in and take SN funds and spots that SN players would have in the final four is not right. From the first out side of Mobile hosting the SNPC each hosting club would try and out do the host from the year before. That is what was so great and we were up to $26,000.00 payout and first was getting $2500.00 , if you would notice we are losing ground. Proud is a great word, when you are proud of something you try harder, that takes a great working together. We should take a look and learn from the past. First worlds I went to cost $100 to play and Climo won $7500.00 , now it cost around $225.00 to play and the world champ won $5500.00, SN needs to get back to accepting the challenge to want to do better than the year before. SN should think about this no hosting club in the past wanted to host the SNPC to sneak in outsiders. What we had was working and we should go back to the past. SN championships should be about SN players, Having a few top DISCGOLF players come in and take away from SN funds is not the way to go. Plus what return will SN get from Nikko or any other top pro that would help SN grow. That is what seperated SN from PDGA EVENTS. SNC should not be about attracting none SN players to play in SNC. jIM

MOBILE PAYOUT WAS $25,000.00 THE LAST TIME WE HOSTED IT, THE TWO PRO PLAYERS THAT WAS ALLOWED TO PLAY WITH NO SN POINTS ADDED ONLY $160.00 DOLLARS TO THE PURSE , IF IT WAS REAL MONEY THE PURSE WOULD OF BEEN $27,0000.00 NOT SURE WHY SOME DO NOT UNDERSTAND THAT. sn TRIED TO PLUG THAT LOOP HOLE THE VERY NEXT YEAR.

Schedule Skysouth to come to your tournament and provide prizes for your event
using Skybucks. This lets the player choose the prize(s) they want! Also, we will
donate 20% of the amount of Skybucks purchased back to the hosting club!

You can also buy direct wholesale from the Skysouth inventory.

We have nearly 3500 items, ranging from Discs, towels, shirts, bags, caps,
Custom Dyed Discs and more!

PM us for details or contact Jim at (251) 478 0379.
Re: SN Board Minutes 9/15/10
September 19, 2010 04:26PM
I say again..........

I agree with JimO on this one No points NO play! Find a SN event some where and play in it if you want to play the SNC. It's really just that simple!

___________________________________________________________________________
Keith "Sunshine" B.
Rumble in Ragley, version 1.0
15 November 2014
Field limited to 90 players
[www.facebook.com]
Re: SN Board Minutes 9/15/10
September 19, 2010 05:28PM
Also why would anyone give anyone a $1000. or $1500. to play in the SNC. it would make no since at all. Just think about that, Jim!

Schedule Skysouth to come to your tournament and provide prizes for your event
using Skybucks. This lets the player choose the prize(s) they want! Also, we will
donate 20% of the amount of Skybucks purchased back to the hosting club!

You can also buy direct wholesale from the Skysouth inventory.

We have nearly 3500 items, ranging from Discs, towels, shirts, bags, caps,
Custom Dyed Discs and more!

PM us for details or contact Jim at (251) 478 0379.
Re: SN Board Minutes 9/15/10
September 19, 2010 06:17PM
Well, the logic could be that they are wanting to sponsor the event anyway... then they would want to have the "star" wearing their gear to promote it.

Same reason Innova gives your son so much goodies. It's marketing.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Take me to the window and understand
I got a rocking chair in my skin.
And every time the wind blows
It brings me down to meet the mood I'm in.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Re: SN Board Minutes 9/15/10
September 20, 2010 09:44AM
I also agree with Jim and Keith..no points...no play..period.....

Wayne
Frisbeetarianism is the belief that when you die, your soul goes up on the roof and gets stuck.
George Carlin
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