Quote -

Scottyd
Re: City Park New Orleans Preview
November 15, 2010 02:44PM Registered: 8 months ago
Posts: 207

my education huh....show ur punk up boy..ill see u friday n ill see how much u wanna talk then boy..i dont take kindly to goddamn personal attacks from sum punk like you..tip.dont sign up cuz after i see u mike kernan you wont b playin boy..smart on the internet huh.ill see u friday boy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2010 09:10PM by lesliez.





I don't understand. Why would Mike get banned for using a harmless word like *edited* (which as you can see is not scrambled by the forum filter), but when someone makes a rather violent threat against Mike, not even a warning gets issued?

It's no wonder that the entire SN Board has been banned from playing in the 2011 SNAC. Mike has been forced to take the law into his own hands since there is an obvious double standard when it comes to him.

I and many of others of NO Team support Mike's decision to issue the ban until his sentence is reduced. No way should someone be banned for 90 days for *edited* when violent threats go unpunished.

By the way, Mike did show up at that tournament anyway, but ScottyD did not. I guess Scotty D is as afraid of Mike as the SN Board is. With good reason---don't mess with him, he was trained in the Special Olympian Forces!

Eric "Scuba" Nolte
President of The Free Mike Kernan Foundation

Please contact me to purchase a Free Mike Kernan T-shirt!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2011 08:04AM by Gilligan.

I want a "free" t-shirt.. but only if it is free

Not sure what is going on here...and I really don't care. But I will say this...


The only people with the authority to ban anyone from the championship tournaments is the SN BoD. New Orleans is the host with Mike as the TD. But the tournament still has to be run under the guidelines set by the SN BoD. They are the governing body they have final say on who can and can't play in this particular tournament.


Pick your battles.

Eric, as you noted, that was 8 months ago. We did not have warnings/bans in place at that time.

Double standard? Not really. If you reduce the speed limit for a road from 45 to 35 you can't go back and issue tickets to all the people that did 45. But you do have to issue tickets to all the people that are NOW doing 45.

It was explained to Mike that they word doesn't have to be caught by the filter (we obviously can't put every word in there.) But the A word by itself will be filtered. The rule is:

Quote

1. Profanity (including creative misspellings & keystrokes to circumvent the profanity filter)

That doesn't mean that it MUST be something caught by the filter. There are many terrible words that the filter will not catch if you put a modifier on the front of it. You still wouldn't want me calling your mother any of those things.

The fact is he was warned for his use of the word. He argued the argument that you are putting forth and it was explained to him as I just explained it to you. It was further explained that THAT word would NOT be tolerated on the forums. He immediately went out to post that word again. This wasn't where he was banned for "accidentally" breaking the rule, he was well aware that it wasn't allowed.

If someone gets a warning they feel are unjust we welcome a discussion to whether or not it is "fair" or not. But if you just run out and use the word again (as you have just done, being well aware that the word isn't allowed) then action will be taken. That is what rules are for.

I personally agree with him and you that that word isn't a word that shouldn't be allowed... I also think we should follow the FCC rules. BUT I am not the sole decider in this and that is not what the board decided. They decided to be stricter than the FCC. Though I may disagree with that decision, I still must uphold that decision. A person of authority may not agree with a law but if that law is broken in public view that person of authority is now bound to uphold that law and take action.

We of course welcome ALL discourse about any decisions and rules that they board has made. You just must abide by the rules, even the ones you don't agree with until you achieve your goal of changing that rule. If you never succeed then you should never break that rule if you want to be allowed to speak on this privately owned server.

Kevin Richard

*yes, I have to edit your post, I would suggest that you not use the word again. (no, this isn't an official warning... but I am certain one will be issued once other board members are contacted.)

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I have picked my battle Sir! I do not understand why Mike was given a warning or a ban for 90 days for a word that the webmaster did not define as abusive when he set up the filter on this page. In my opinion if the rules are going to be enforced then they should be enforced equally and not just to one out spoken individual. My quote in the above post is just one expample of the Board picking and choosing who they are going after.

I can see why they would want Mike off this forum. If I wanted to silence someone for calling me out about the tracking of funds in an organization and did not have the supporting documentation to disprove the accusation, I would do the same thing.

I can say that I do not agree with everything Mike says but he makes many valid points!

Eric "Scuba" Nolte
President of The Free Mike Kernan Foudation!

Quote
Bernie from PoG thread
WOW!!! The SN forum seems to have degenerated into an over policed over regulated method of obtainng disc golf information. That may or may not have been edited. & yes I realize I am wondering from the topic Forum Nazi's. So sue me or ban me if you like. I won't shed a tear. Kerndog may be an outspoken smartmouth, but he has done alot to promote your organization. Especially with THIS tourney in years past. & there is my segway into how this rant pertains to this threads topic. & banning him is ridiculous. & How can you possibly let the ultimate pot stirrer Gilligan still constantly adamantly post nonstop arguementative BS? I don't get it? If you truly wish to mediate your forum. Then you must take into account more than just mere pseudo profanities. How about mediating the pointless bickering? It certainly has kept me away for quite a while. & everytime I come back. The exact same nonsense from the same people.

*Nope Bernie, you are welcome to freely express your feelings no matter what they are as long as you are following the guidelines, even if you don't agree with them.

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inkjunky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have picked my battle Sir! I do not understand
> why Mike was given a warning or a ban for 90 days
> for a word that the webmaster did not define as
> abusive when he set up the filter on this page. In
> my opinion if the rules are going to be enforced
> then they should be enforced equally and not just
> to one out spoken individual. My quote in the
> above post is just one expample of the Board
> picking and choosing who they are going after.
>
> I can see why they would want Mike off this forum.
> If I wanted to silence someone for calling me out
> about the tracking of funds in an organization and
> did not have the supporting documentation to
> disprove the accusation, I would do the same
> thing.
>
> I can say that I do not agree with everything Mike
> says but he makes many valid points!
>
> Eric "Scuba" Nolte
> President of The Free Mike Kernan Foudation!


Actually we desired very greatly NOT to kick Mike off because of all he does and because of all he will be doing for the SN... but our hands were bound when he willingly and purposefully decided to post a word that we had explained to him was not allowed.

Eric, as I explained the root of his word IS NOT allowed... the filter is not very good in that it won't catch it with a modifier on it.

Example... if I put the word "train" into the filter it will catch and edit when someone types " train "... BUT it might not (it is very finicky at times) catch and edit the word CrossTrain or DieselTrain or such. As you can imagine there are many terrible words (in OTHER people's opinion, not really mine) that could be substituted and you would probably even agree those words shouldn't be used.

Trust me, it has ZERO to do with who broke the rule and how "out spoken" that person might be. I have in the past posted many things much worse than the word Kernan used. We didn't have any rules and consequences back then. Now we do and I abide by them.

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I will gladly accept a warning for my actions Gilligan. It will be good to see more than one person in the forum being held to a rule. I can understand your point about not being able to go back and enforce rules for violations in the past.

Does there have to be a rule to know violence will not be tolerated? If there was a player at a tournament threatening physical violence against another player it would not be tolerated regardless of rules. The disc golf community is not about violence and it is a sad day when disc golfers go from putting to fist!

Eric "Scuba" Nolte
President of The Free Mike Kernan Foundation

Please not my opinions are my own!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2011 08:39AM by inkjunky.

We agree with you Bernie about the constant bickering back and forth, and we will be discussing the true purpose of the private thread and make sure we utilize it correctly.

When we were elected to this board by the players, the main change I kept hearing was....CLEAN UP THE FORUM! We knew it wasn't going to be the easiest transition, but I can say that in the last few months it is the cleanest the thread has been in years. We are following the guidelines as laid out, no matter who you are....you are being held to the same standards as everyone else.

Like Kevin said...we have freedom of speech, but on this forum we have guidelines to help "guide" your post. The ultimate goal is to have this site revived, and a possible venue for sponsors to use as a reference.

Leslie

Eric, Kernan was the third person to be warned. Certainly not the first so we do hold everyone up to that standard.

I also agree that violence should not be tolerated. Plain and simple the forums were a joke before (some would argue nothing has changed in that regard now)... but we now have a set of rules to follow. In the past if someone said something and we acted on it and yet a year before someone was allowed to do that same thing it would certainly look like we were singling out a person. Now there are fairly cut and dry rules to be followed and it is making it to where we can nip some of this behavior in the butt before it grows to levels it might have before.

I'm against just about every form of violence so you have my COMPLETE understanding with your concerns.

Kevin Richard

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*Nope Bernie, you are welcome to freely express your feelings no matter what they are as long as you are following the guidelines, even if you don't agree with them.

Gilligan,

If you truely feel that way then why did you delete the post Boba Satt made on friday?

Eric "Scuba" Nolte
President of The Free Mike Kernan Foundation



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2011 08:39AM by inkjunky.

Quote
Previously posted
It had verbiage that could have been confusing to users. A PM was sent explaining the issue and why it was removed.

Basically you have said the same thing but without the potentially confusing verbiage and we would never censor what you said about it.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2011 09:02AM by Gilligan.

Eric, we have sent numerous warnings to more than just Mike Kernan and yourself.

This is so stupid. They warned him and he didn't listen. Take the punishment and learn. Getting on here and saying the BOD is banned fromthe SNAC is just rediculous. Shows a sense of immaturity. This is disc golf and no violence should not be involved and rules should not be broken. Get over it and move on.

Gilligan,

Exactly which rule did Boba Satt break to have his post deleted? I see no rule broken! Your explanation does not meet the rules as defined by the Board. Do you have the ultimate right to censor post that you feel do not conform? How far are you going to take censoring post? Is there somewhere else I need to look to find rules against confusing language in post? I would like to know so I don't break the rule and have my post deleted due to verbiage that is not defined. Do you have any plans on deleting post due to improper spelling and grammar?

Eric "Scuba" Nolte
President of The Free Mike Kernan Foundation
Reduce the 90 Day sentence!




SN Discussion Board Rules – Posting any of the following will result in possible deletion of your post or transferring to the private forum:

1. Profanity (including creative misspellings & keystrokes to circumvent the profanity filter)

2. Physical threats against other members (obvious or veiled)

3. Offensive content, material which is not suitable for a minor, or links to such material. Examples of such material are as follows:

Nudity, partial nudity, or adult content. Exposed breasts, nipples (including ones visible through material), penises and vaginas, and gluteal areas aren't permitted. An image doesn't have to contain complete nudity for it to be out of place - if there's a great deal of exposed skin and/or minimal fabric covering, it's frowned upon. Any picture of marital aides etc fall into this category.

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The use of images depicting well-known tragedies such as 9/11 or Hitler/the Holocaust is not forbidden - but is generally frowned upon. Additionally images which depict people or animals dying (falling to their death, being killed in various ways - e.g. shot, maimed/tortured, etc.) should also not be posted or linked to as some people may find these offensive.

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Graphic text comments: Graphic language fits right in with content. This is not an erotica site, nor a place for "who can tell the most disgusting story" contests, or a journal for your (or anyone else's) bodily/biological functions.
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Posts which undesirably 'out' persons of a homosexual nature, transgendered, etc. are also forbidden.

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5. Links to downloads of copyrighted material such as music, movies, TV shows, etc.

6. Causing harm to the message board. Examples of causing harm to the message board include: (but are not limited to) inserting malicious code, posting of large files which affect screen resolution or download times, spamming, (defined as multiple posting of an identical or similar post on one or more of our forums in an attempt to force the message on people who would not otherwise choose to receive it. Alternatively, multiple posting of a nonsense message or "bumping" of old threads for no reason) and/or any other behavior that disrupts normal performance of the message board.

As you can see the content of his post is not what I censored. I simply eliminated a potentially confusing post. It could be in violation of rule 6 causing harm to the forum by suggesting some things were said by someone who had not said them.

If someone came on here saying that you said X,Y and Z and you came to the board and said "I never said those words and I'd like that 'quote' removed." I'd would think that the board would agree to remove that. I wouldn't have a problem with Bob posting the core of the information, like you have done in your original post, without the misleading language. This was explained to Bob and he said he would repost what he said and removing the confusing part. He is welcome to do so.

I hope you understand, it was not censorship by any means.

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Eliminating confusing posts. That is a slippery slope.

Are you digging this hole on your own?


Is the entire board behind you?


This may be the intended procedural process:


This will be the outcome:

Gilligan,

I can see where you are coming from if rule number #6 is the "catch all" to ensure control. Please understand that I agree with most of the changes to the forum. I now feel comfortable soliciting corporate sponsors for future tournaments around New Orleans and sending them to this site for reference. I know being on the Board is a thankless job and it is done out of love of the sport.

One thing I hope people understand is that we need people like Mike to question things and keep people honest. 90 days seems a little harsh for the verbage he chose to make his point. I have heard much worse on network television and the radio.

Eric "Scuba" Nolte
President of The Free Mike Kernan Foundation
Reduce the 90 Day sentence!

I completely agree with you Eric and I'm glad you understand.

Fact is we laid out the consequences and explained very clearly that he couldn't use that word. He then decided to use it anyway. We have a cut and dry practice. If we judged each punishment on a case by case basis we would open our selves up to scrutiny of favoritism if we weren't perfectly even handed (which as humans, is pretty much impossible.) It is better to just have cut and dry rules/consequences that we all must abide by.

I also agree that our guidelines are worse than network TV and I wish they weren't. But it is what it is. Do know that we have ZERO problems with ANYone questioning what we do or even our motives, we just ask that it be done with approved language. Intent is not something we are concerned with... just the individual words themselves.

Steve, that is a very good concern... this is why we have 6 of us... we can only hope that if anyone of us "goes overboard" that others will put that person in check. I personally have no problem do that to the other board members and I hope that none of them have a problem doing the same to me.

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Can you please define confusing for me?

If I make a post stating I got an ace today at City Park on hole #3 and it is a beautiful peninsula hole. Hole three is a land shot and is not a peninsula, that would be confusing. Do you plan on deleting my post because I confused people by describing the hole incorrectly?

Confusing seems like a vague term to me and gives you the right to censor post as you see fit.

Eric "Scuba" Nolte
President of The Free Mike Kernan Foundation
Reduce the 90 Day sentence!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2011 10:58AM by inkjunky.

kevin this is what i meant; when i said the rules are not clear enough yet; it will almost take a book.

Agreed that term is... ermm, confusing (maybe I should delete that post eh? ;) ). I have already explained myself on this topic above. ^^


As far as agreeing with the rules and not I can give you this anecdote:

We have a newish street in Lafayette and due to a deal the city made with the land developers that the road goes through they made the speed limit 35mph, even though it is a divided 4 lane road with beautifully carved out places to get out of traffic and cross the street at various locations... probably one of the best engineered roads in Lafayette. When you cross the street to the older road the speed increases to 45 (maybe even 50) even though it is a normal 4 lane with just a turning lane dividing it and LOTS of business and apartments lining the side of the road. Makes no sense. They extended this road through a completely rural section and also pot the speed limit at 35mph. I just don't agree and I can't do it. So one day I was wizzing along beyond 35mph and passed up a motorcycle cop... if you don't know cycle cops sole purpose is to write traffic violations and you have basically zero chance of getting a "warning" when they pull you over. So I immediately pull off on a side road and park and wait because I KNOW he is coming to get me. When he pulls over and walks over to me he asks my why I was speeding. I frankly told him the aforementioned reasons and how I didn't agree with it. He said, "I agree with you and you probably should take your complaint to the city council". He then proceeded to write me my ticket. ;) Probably less than two weeks later they raised the speed limit on the road to 45 (only in that rural section where I was busted)... granted I had NOTHING to do with the change but I also didn't get a retractment of that ticket now that they raised the speed limit.

In short, even though the cop himself disagreed with the posted speed limit he was still bound to write me a ticket for violating the posted limit.

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Well, Mike, in this case it doesn't get much clearer than saying... "Don't say <THIS> word as it is not allowed" and then he posted <THIS> word after that.

Same for Eric, it seems he knew that word was not allowed and is fully ready to accept the consequences of using it. I'm not mad at anyone if they break the rule, I just wish they wouldn't so we didn't have to warn or ban them. I also wish that we weren't so strict with our guidelines... but it is what it is. :(

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Take me to the window and understand
I got a rocking chair in my skin.
And every time the wind blows
It brings me down to meet the mood I'm in.
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Gilligan,

I guess your point is that regarless of intent if I make any post that is "confusing" it will be deleted. I will hold you to that when I read things that I find confusing and bring them to your attention. I have found explanations from the Board "confusing" in the past, I guess you plan on deleting those in the future. The rules are for all that use the forum.

Eric "Scuba" Nolte
President of The Free Mike Kernan Foundation
Reduce the 90 Day sentence!

Eric, I'm not sure how you interpreted that... I guess my post was confusing... maybe I should remove it. ;)

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Take me to the window and understand
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And every time the wind blows
It brings me down to meet the mood I'm in.
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Gilligan,

I appreciate you taking the time to reply to this post.

Eric

Gilligan, dont lie and say you didnt want Kernan removed from the SN discussion board. "we desired Not to take kick Kernan off"

Brad you would be very mistaken if you actually believe that I desired to have that happen.

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Take me to the window and understand
I got a rocking chair in my skin.
And every time the wind blows
It brings me down to meet the mood I'm in.
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This thread is joke.

Terry Zeringue

Bingo Zinger!!!

This thread is an exact example of one that should have been moved to the Private Discussion. The General Public does not need to see this.

Dangerous Don