Yes move it please, it will be a proud day when I or any player can send a new player,grandaughter or a sponsor to read this forum. I thank the BOD for stepping up and hope to see this continued in the future. Just like when I was warned by my grand mother as a child and I did it again as she would say before the whipping " you must of wanted the whipping so here it is. The same goes as a adult, we all know the right and wrong ways to take care of problems the right way. We should all act with respect to each other at all times. SN is still growing and we will have to make more rules and add to old rules. The said part players bring this unto themselves. Players know how to act and if we all did this we would need less rules. As I told several players this weekend I am ready to move forward with those who chose to act right and put the good of DISC GOLF and SN first. If this happens SN will grow and we will keep the course we have now. Please never forget that WE are very strong in large #, Jim!

New Orleans please step up as a group and run the best SNAC ever , There no doubt in my mind that you can do it. Please let me know of any thing I can do for you, Jim!

Schedule Skysouth to come to your tournament and provide prizes for your event
using Skybucks. This lets the player choose the prize(s) they want! Also, we will
donate 20% of the amount of Skybucks purchased back to the hosting club!

You can also buy direct wholesale from the Skysouth inventory.

We have nearly 3500 items, ranging from Discs, towels, shirts, bags, caps,
Custom Dyed Discs and more!

PM us for details or contact Jim at (251) 478 0379.

I swear some disc golfers sure do get butt-hurt easily over nuthin. Seriously guys, go spend time with your kids or wife or family rather than wasting all your time and energy over this. There is more to life I promise. Really go back and look at what you guys argue over. Go back to the root of every one of these arguments that start over and over and over again and you will hopefully see it all amounts to nuthin. This all should be easy, disc golf is a laid back sport where you can just go out and chill with complete strangers and everyone is cool with each other cuz you're all out just to hang and throw some plastic. It's not till you get on here, hiding behind a computer screen where it is so easy to be uncivil with people because they are not right in front of you that people start fighting over nothing. If all parties involved would just screw this forum and meet up and throw some discs I guarantee you would all be good friends in a matter of days. If you think about it none of you are on here are fighting with people you play with regularly. I would go as far to say that the people arguing all the time don't even live near each other. Everyone just grow up,and realize this is Disc Golf its suppose to be fun.

If I pissed anyone off with this, lets go throw some discs and will work it out.

, Jason

Word jason... Well put...

PS: I'd love to throw some discs sometime soon.

WOW.......after two threads of this crap, I still don't see why it's being talked about. Am I the only person to see the Mike got a small victory in getting banned. I mean after this happened, everybody has been talking about how screwed up the rules are. Heck I was happy he got booted off the site, now I can read a tourney thread without seeing a bunch of useless pictures. However, I also think its crap that its a 90 day banishment. So can we flush sarcastic sam and bluff magee, along with this thread down the drain. So everybody leave the dang thing be, all your doing in arguing about it is giving him a laugh while he sits at his computer reading all this.

Eric is sooo right :)

To All:

I would like to preface this post with a big SORRY it’s so long. I wanted to make sure I had an opportunity to get all of this out in a comprehensive and non-confusing way. I also am not sure that this is necessarily the appropriate forum for this post, it could be another thread or topic entirely, but here goes anyway. In no way is this meant to offend or call anyone out, I'm not familiar with everyone enough to do that.

I've recently had the pleasure of discovering the NO Team group and since then I've played in two local tournaments, with the goal of expanding my tournament play into the whole of SN. I would like to point out though that I am pretty confused as to some of the issues that have been raised over the past few months as well as the operations of SN as a whole. I don't want to appear as taking sides or enflaming a specific conversation, etc; I am just attempting to understand a little better. BUT I do want to play a role in the future development of the sport, so I have included some things that I see as must fix issues if we as a group want to continue to not only grow the SN brand, but the sport of disc golf as a whole. Rather than call names and make accusations, we should work to find some solutions. I would like to point out that though I am new to SN, I don’t think that I should have to ask these questions to find out the answers to the issues below. These types of things should be public knowledge to the whole of SN.


Here are a few of my concerns that I hope to see addressed as I come further into the SN fold and continue to meet some amazing people from the whole of SN region.

1. Confusing web presence.

This is probably one of the easiest things to fix across the board. The forum and its moderation can be highly confusing for new comers like me, but especially if we are looking to attract potential funders for the future of SN and the events we host. I have included a link to a local disc golf community where I began playing nearly 10 years ago. http://www.tadga.com/home/. While they too have the same trash talking and argumentative nature, they have a decently well run web site and discussion board that is easy to navigate and is very easy to find the information via the message boards about specific local courses, tournaments, as well as general discussion, and my personal favorite, lost and found. Again, this could be something done in a SN Member's spare time, however there needs to be a solid commitment from someone to produce the general content and keep the boards up to date with the most current information. I know for one that we have a few talented individuals in the NO Team group that have web design skills, as I am sure there is across the SN Region. This should be a no-brainer and an easy fix.

I can say that from the funding standpoint, half of the information that I would want to see before I fund an organization is not present on the web site, where it absolutely needs to be.

2. Clear and concise rules.

A SN Rule book should be produced. It doesn’t even have to be printed, but available as a PDF via the SN web site. Rules will include tournament play, league play, tag play, and online forum moderation, etc. A code of conduct that is absolutely CLEAR should be included for all avenues of participation in SN allowing for no ambiguity or interpretation. Clear punishments should be outlined for every level of infraction as well as for repeat offenders, making sure to include the BOD under these guidelines. As per a thread I recently read, identifying something that can be removed and/or censored because it is “confusing” is a little too subjective. Again, I may find some of the items on the forum confusing, but that would be because of my limited knowledge base of SN operations (hence the reason for this post).

3. Operations of the SN BOD.

Here is where I find the most troubling aspects towards my concerns about SN. I’ve read posts that call into question rules, personal beliefs, personal attacks, but more than anything reading a post where multiple members of SN have identified potential problems with how SN does its bookkeeping is very troubling.

Here are some questions for this specific issue that I have that hopefully can be addressed or have it identified where the information can be found.

a. Status of SN operations:
Is Southern Nationals a registered 501©3 organization? The reason I ask this question will be explained a little more fully with some of my other questions. However, it seems to me that SN qualities as a non-profit organization that can highly benefit from the tax-exempt status afforded by the IRS. Because the organization transcends multiple states and does take in funds to put on events, a clear set of rules in bookkeeping would be beneficial for both the current BOD as well as future members of the BOD. This will also serve to protect members of the BOD from any future consequences that may arise from a former member’s improper conduct (if there is any to begin with).

b. How does SN maintain its books:
This follows very closely to the previous concern. Bookkeeping is a very important aspect for all organizations and businesses. This serves two functions. First, you alleviate the concerns of SN members that may wonder where their SN fees are being allocated. Second, you have a way to prove to potential funders how their funds will be spend, with a clear and concise reporting method as you report back to them. These are huge concerns for everyone involved and I hope that the BOD recognizes this.

Obviously, the BOD will be working to identify the needs of the organizations and how to allocate funds to meet those needs, but the credibility of all involved takes a blow when due paying members are unsure how the funds are being spend and cannot get clear, concise, and accurate accounting for their money. It doesn’t take much to put together a simple banking method with specific accounts for SN as well as quickbooks type accounting systems, in fact I would encourage this if it is not already been done. These types of accounting systems are always money well spent by an organization and will result in a easy to transfer system to new and future board members that can follow the history of funding and spending for the organization. Additionally, and this is very key: This information for funding and spending through monthly or annual reports will help develop concrete budgets for future tournaments and help SN identify where funds can be better spent in the future. But more importantly, this information should be public and available on the website (redesigned I hope) to provide evidence of fiscal responsibility to potential funders. Major funders will look for these “annual reports” before funding specific proposals or events because they want to make sure that the funds will be utilized effectively. The future of SN as a well run and as a ambassador to the sport, in my mind, is contingent upon meeting these types of concerns not only for internal purposes, but for growing the sport with corporate and government partnerships as we seek as a collective to build new courses and hold major events.

c. Are we seeking long term corporate sponsors:
For SN a key way to build and develop the organization for the future would be to tailor our web presence to not only be useful to experienced disc golfers, but also new athletes and commercial and public organizations. Long-term sponsors will also help eliminate the push every year to gain sponsor funds, and before you know it we could be hosting our own “Memorial” with a international draw.

4. Player Database.

I think it would be appropriate to ensure the creation of a comprehensive tag challenge database. I know that SN encompasses many states, perhaps the creation of this database when registering for a new tag season, would ensure that players who travel can reach out and challenge people from other states.
Information that would need to be gathered: Name, phone number, email address, tag number, and home course. Perhaps (I don’t know if it already exists) having a two week response period for a tag challenge, with the winner contacting the SN site administrator to make changes on the website would be the norm? Including the tournament results as well would be great. I see that this is already the case for the tournaments in SN. As of now, if I were to purchase a tag, how would I know who had #1? If I was taking a trip to Pensacola, FL for instance and wanted to play some golf, how could I potentially challenge one of the top local players?


I want to thank everyone for his or her time in reading this. Again I want to point out that I am relatively new to the SN group, but if these are my concerns then I am sure that large sponsors or funders will be asking the same questions and more. The goal of this is to generate long-term solutions to these issues that can be easily maintained in the future. The longer it takes to get these issues resolved, the longer and more difficult it will be to correct them in the future. We don’t have to recreate the wheel with every new BOD, and please accept my apologies if these issues have already been resolved or are currently being addressed.

For the record, regardless of the ego clash regarding the forum and the SNAC tournament, I would like to think that we are all adults and that we can come to some sort of solution that will not only involve having the SNAC in one of the greatest city’s in the world, but also that we can work together to make this happen. As the adage goes: It Takes a Village. I for one will volunteer my time to not only physically work on course maintenance and improvement, will also dedicate a portion of my time to try and secure funding sources and tournament organization if needed. I am not only a Disc Golf player, but also an ambassador to the sport for everyone that I meet in my life. I would like nothing more than to see the sport grow and provide great entertainment and competition for the future of the game and an increase in world-class courses in the region.

Again,

Thank you for your time and I hope it wasn’t confusing,

Dustin

Lots of the topics you mentioned are either in the works or are being discussed at present time.

The SN has just grown so fast I don't think anyone anticipated a need for such "official" practices until it was after the fact.

Thanks for your input it is much appreciated.

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Take me to the window and understand
I got a rocking chair in my skin.
And every time the wind blows
It brings me down to meet the mood I'm in.
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Ditto what Kevin said....some very familiar topics ;)

I hope we can get some of this corrected soon. I work as a Business Services Specialist for a national financial services non-profit. These were just the glaring issues that I saw in the last month or two that I have started becoming involved in the SN. If there is any way I can help get these things going, such as the revamp of the web design, let me know. The sooner that these issues are taken care of, the better it will be for the community of disc golfers and the visibility of the sport and organization.

I am not trying to beat a dead horse, but if I am going to pay $xx.xx per tournament for SN fees, where does that money go? If I buy a SN bag tag, what does that money get me besides a tag?

I would love to see a comprehensive approach to solving these issues developed by the board or otherwise that sets a firm time-table for completing these goals. The plan in my opinion should be shared with the SN community to allow input into the decision making process and once finalized, put into effect immediately. I see no cause for delay here. Especially with the vitriol that seems to permeate the conversations here.

If you need assistance putting together the plan, let me know, I would be glad to lend a hand and utilize my skills to make this a reality.

Thanks again,

Dustin

Might take you up on that offer Dustin, we always need people with your talents and expertise.

For the record you have too many X's in your fee post. It's only $2.00 per tournament.

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Take me to the window and understand
I got a rocking chair in my skin.
And every time the wind blows
It brings me down to meet the mood I'm in.
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Thanks for the input Dustin. I've actually stated on several occasions here recently that we need to put the financials on Google Docs. Since we're a non-profit organization, I personally feel like the records should be public knowledge.

As far as some of the other stuff you've mentioned, I've said some things very similar to your "Confusing Web Presence" and received the reponse, "Go to the PDGA. You'll like it there." Some people are so comfortable with where they are and how things are that they just don't want to move forward.

I guess it goes back to what the purpose of the SN really is. Are we trying to grow the SN and grow the sport, or is there something that I'm missing? I'm going to go ahead and say that I must be missing something.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Justin Tolbert
BHS Disc Golf [www.youtube.com]
Mobile, Alabama

Justin,

As a non-profit, you should technically post your anual reports every year. A simple PDF download on one of the web site pages should suffice. Monthly financials would be even better as then players can keep up with the operations of the organization without necessarily having to utilize another service such as google docs.

I don't think it has to be specifically PDGA stylings, that is why I posted the link to a local club in Toledo, OH. They have some of the same issues up there, but on a smaller scale. Let me talk to someone about putting together a website proof. We can probably get something created quickly that allows for easy forum moderation and site additions. Should only take a few weeks if he has the time.

Does the board have to approve this type of thing (creating a proof for a new website design?)

Dustin

dwridener Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't think it has to be specifically PDGA
> stylings

It's not the stylings that caused the statement, it was the suggestion of revamping some things to improve functionality. Oh well.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Justin Tolbert
BHS Disc Golf [www.youtube.com]
Mobile, Alabama

name the time and place Robby



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2011 04:40PM by jaswan79.

This thread is STILL A JOKE!!!

Terry Zeringue

What's this? Banned for 90 days?? Wow!! That's "bitter"....

Hang in there Mikey....

Tiiiiiii-iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii-iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiime is on my side. Yes it is!

I wish I could post a youtube link to this song for the largemouth and our listening pleasure, but:

SN Discussion Board Rules – Posting any of the following will result in possible deletion of your post or transferring to the private forum:

5. Links to downloads of copyrighted material such as music, movies, TV shows, etc.

I don’t really care if it would be deleted or moved to the private discussion but I don’t want to violate any rules or mess up anybody’s thread.

Apparently you can get banned only for a second offense after a specific warning but I might need a free pass later.

OOOOOhhhhhh, that's rich!!!

A YouTube link isn't a download. That guideline is in reference to downloading pirated material.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Justin Tolbert
BHS Disc Golf [www.youtube.com]
Mobile, Alabama

Justin is correct. That's not a link to download the material, just to listen to it. Just as a radio or television isn't a method to download material.

Link away.

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Take me to the window and understand
I got a rocking chair in my skin.
And every time the wind blows
It brings me down to meet the mood I'm in.
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[www.youtube.com]

Although I still don’t get the distinction I have confidence in your authority.

Discjazz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> Although I still don’t get the distinction ..... You are not alone.
> I have confidence in your authority. ...... You ARE the only one

JABBA


it MUST be the plastic



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2011 09:01AM by frzbman.

Kevin... can you download and distribute that song from the link you provided or can you just listen to it.

That is the distincstion... we said no links to downloadable copyrighted material... you can't save that song to your hard drive and put it on your mp3 player or a cd, only listen to it from youtube. My brother-in-laws material on youtube is ALL copyrighted but they would LOVE for everyone to link to it and watch it over and over. ;)

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Take me to the window and understand
I got a rocking chair in my skin.
And every time the wind blows
It brings me down to meet the mood I'm in.
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“Kevin... can you download and distribute that song from the link you provided or can you just listen to it”

Yes, absolutely. When I click on the link it is downloaded to my computer from which I could record it and put it on my mp3 player.

Actually... no it doesn't, it streams... which sure the bits are individually downloaded into the flash players' cache but you can not pull those bits out of the flash player due to their clever programming.

You can also record off the radio and play on your mp3 player but that isn't 1:1 and the RIAA isn't all that concerned with that sort of duplicating.

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Take me to the window and understand
I got a rocking chair in my skin.
And every time the wind blows
It brings me down to meet the mood I'm in.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SN Top25 Bag Tag database
BRDGA Top10 Bag Tag database
MADGA Top10 Bag Tag database
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Yes but I think you are admitting a download is just a computer method of reception, which the link/site provides. A radio receives too. It isn’t called a download but the copyright laws apply the same. The rule says nothing about distribution anyway.

I don't know the exact copyright law by any means... but I know it was based on duplication.

There are no more copies once you are done listening to your youtube link then there was before.

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Take me to the window and understand
I got a rocking chair in my skin.
And every time the wind blows
It brings me down to meet the mood I'm in.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SN Top25 Bag Tag database
BRDGA Top10 Bag Tag database
MADGA Top10 Bag Tag database
SFC Top10 Bag Tag database

There is no way to know whether a link will lead to more copies or not. That is up to the recipient, but the rule says nothing about copies either.

Well... Like I stated when we voted on these rules... I feel they will cause problems in how they are interpreted.

I guess I never thought THAT rule would ever come in to question.

I understand that this was basically an academic discussion Kevin, but I must admit... I've grown board with it. If I am incorrect in that assumption feel free to let me know and we can continue this banter... though I think PM's might be better than boring the public with discussion of what the RIAA feels is kosher or not.

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Take me to the window and understand
I got a rocking chair in my skin.
And every time the wind blows
It brings me down to meet the mood I'm in.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SN Top25 Bag Tag database
BRDGA Top10 Bag Tag database
MADGA Top10 Bag Tag database
SFC Top10 Bag Tag database

Sorry if I bored the public. It is academic entertainment to me. Mostly though, thanks for clearing my link.