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Something to think about

Posted by head 
Re: Something to think about
March 08, 2011 12:08PM
Thanks! I remember talk about it, but then nothing happened. I would really like to look into this for serious consideration!
Re: Something to think about
March 08, 2011 12:39PM
I think a ratings system would be good and we should start using the novice section more. Some people just cant compete in the cash for advance but they get called a bagger for playing ams. Moving everyone to one am division isnt the asnwer because then you have new guys getting dominated and never coming back to a tournament.
Re: Something to think about
March 08, 2011 03:12PM
A rating system would be nice, but I would like to see one in place and business as usual for at least a year or two to make sure the formula/system is mostly accurate and viable before you use it as a means of determining when players are to register.

The PDGA can do this because it has PAID employees that deal with tournament results and maintaining all the information concerning courses and players and everything that goes into determining a rating (I don't profess to know all the bells and whistles involved). That is another level of commitment from a volunteer that has to come from somewhere.

I guess my point is it may be a valid solution to some of the problems in regards to having players play in their appropriate division and may even solve the dwindling adv division compared to the am division, however I wouldn't be quick to come up with something and change it immediately. Slow and steady may not be a bad thing here....

JOhn k
Re: Something to think about
March 08, 2011 03:24PM
Like I said I have all the info needed to do it.

My proposal to the BOD is that I do it for free for a year or season.

Then if it looks like it is something that the BOD wants to use as a system to correctly place players in divisions then I would ask for the SN to raise the SN fees to $2.50 and I be paid .50 a player in each tournament. I have already ran the ratings for a year just to see what it would be like and it is a lot of work. So I believe .50 a player is a reasonable fee to do so.
Re: Something to think about
March 08, 2011 05:01PM
You are sooooo right John! Something to think about when we discuss this...THANKS!
Re: Something to think about
March 08, 2011 05:34PM
Based on last seasons tournaments there were about 8200 players. So at $.50 a player that would be a cost of $4100 to have rating provided to players for a year. That may have been the reason that it did not progress last time it was brought up, honestly I can't remember. I have no idea how much work goes into tabulating/calculating ratings but that is a nice chuck of change. If the SN fee is $2.50 with $.50 toward ratings and $.25 for sn expenses then only $1.75 or 70% is going toward the respective championships.

Just some numbers, I'm not advicating for or against ratings. We just need to see if it is something the SN wants or needs and if the players are willing to pay that amount for them....

JOhn k
Re: Something to think about
March 08, 2011 05:48PM
I'd be willing to drop to .25 if it something everyone wants
Re: Something to think about
March 08, 2011 08:51PM
Head,

I am I.terested n ur rating system. I feel .25 per player per event is fair. Lot of work but we desperatly need something can u send me a run down of how this works

Leo
Re: Something to think about
March 08, 2011 11:15PM
How long do this play this sport, before you play it at its highest level? Cash or no cash? I have never won a pro division tournement! I also know that regardless of my "STATUS" i love playing within the best of my division!! . Beating the likes of Jon Fox, Wiilibt, Kevin Wiess, Ronnni Adams, and other pro masters is awesome!!! I have never enterd a tourney based on what my player pack MIGHT contain EVER! I have finished DFL several times, but I never left UNHAPPY!!!! Then again im old school, started out playing object golf at my high school in Alvin Texas in 1989!(Good Times)! All I have to say is "JUST THROW IT" its gonna land somewhere!!!!
Re: Something to think about
March 09, 2011 07:00AM
Quote
Brad
All I have to say is "JUST THROW IT" its gonna land somewhere!!!!

Been a long time since I heard that one......

___________________________________________________________________________
Keith "Sunshine" B.

"You are truly one miserable human being."
Alxtgr
Re: Something to think about
March 09, 2011 07:35AM
I'm with you Brad. Play where you want to play, JUST PLAY.
I'm the opposite of Brad. I've played Pro Masters and it was fine. But, the guys I enjoy playing disc golf with the most reside in Adv Masters. So that's where I play. I don't play for what I may or may not win. I play to get away from the stress and just to enjoy myself. If I wanted it to be a job, I'd go into the office where I know I'll get paid. Just enjoy it for what it is.

As for ratings, they may be important to some. I just don't know how important they will be to the masses. Most players aren't that worried about them. I've got no problem having them, if there for information only. But, I think the PDGA has proven that you can "BAG" with ratings as well as without them.

Chad
Re: Something to think about
March 09, 2011 10:28AM
Actually I have already ran ratings for the SN for a year. And the main thing the ratings would do is shut people up about bagging. The ratings that I ran actually showed that 90% of the players are playing in the correct division. The masses will like the ratings. As it shows you how you stack up against the top players.
Re: Something to think about
March 09, 2011 10:34AM
I used matthews ratings system last year and created a whole new one off of the basis of it. I used a different number scale with decimals that way after each round you could see it go up or down. It was crazy hard to set it up, but easier after the initial work. It worked well and I even did it against PDGA tourneys and it worked and put people in the same spots.

Its a good thing, but a lot of work and should be compensated for.

"HOGMAN"
HyZer Nation
Re: Something to think about
March 09, 2011 04:51PM
NAME 1st Rd 2nd Rd 3rd Rd Tourney Rating
Tyler Wammack 50 998 52 977 54 1000 992
Darek Casper 57 926 51 987 56 980 965
Andy Mize 56 936 54 957 56 980 958
Drew Sockwell 56 936 54 957 57 971 954
Jeff Karl 56 936 58 915 54 1000 950

McKinley McCarty 63 864 58 915 68 863 881

Brian Street 56 936 58 915 57 971 941
David Marking 59 905 58 915 55 990 937
Jody Neff 63 864 56 936 58 961 920
David Dunham 60 895 54 957 69 853 901

Russ Corey 55 946 59 905 52 1020 957
Gary Wagoner 59 905 54 957 55 990 951
Robert McDonald 54 957 59 905 57 971 944

Robby Harris 53 967 57 926 54 1000 964
Josh David 53 967 59 905 58 961 944
Kirby Powers 59 905 56 936 59 951 931
Will Corey 57 926 63 864 63 912 900
Joshua Wright 58 915 62 874 69 853 881
Michael Fleming

Bob Sappington 53 967 59 905 54 1000 957
Chase Courtney 56 936 57 926 56 980 947
Matthew Gardner 57 926 49 1008 62 922 952
Tony Palmer 57 926 52 977 65 892 932
DJ Rushlow 58 915 61 884 56 980 927
Max Davidson 55 946 53 967 69 853 922
Cole Heuerman 60 895 53 967 66 882 915
Dillon Gourley 60 895 57 926 64 902 907
Michael Fisher 60 895 58 915 64 902 905
Justin Perry 59 905 60 895 65 892 897
Chris Goolsby 60 895 66 833 59 951 893
Daniel Bostick 57 926 59 905 70 843 891
Eric Bose 60 895 61 884 65 892 890
Erick Sipes 60 895 55 946 73 814 885
Justin Lamb 63 864 61 884 67 873 874
William Ballinger 66 833 60 895 71 833 854
Rhee Perry 65 843 59 905 74 804 851
Johnathan Carter 66 833 66 833 68 863 843
Madison Coltharp 61 884 72 771 68 863 839
Steve Cheesewright 63 864 74 750 67 873 829
Nick Ballinger 80 689 77 719 85 696 701

Vicki Palmer 64 853 67 823 72 824 833
Jenna Ray 75 740 72 771 86 686 732

Ray Smith 80 689 75 740 714
Re: Something to think about
March 09, 2011 04:52PM
Just need somewhere on the results page or maybe a ratings tab to enter the info in and it can be done for every tournament
Re: Something to think about
March 09, 2011 04:59PM
I don't agree with taking fees to do the ratings, that sounds like somebody elses forte.

Jamie "Massive J" Massengale
Re: Something to think about
March 09, 2011 05:35PM
And something for nothing sounds like?

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Take me to the window and understand
I got a rocking chair in my skin.
And every time the wind blows
It brings me down to meet the mood I'm in.
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Re: Something to think about
March 09, 2011 05:43PM
The fees taken for the ratings would be put back into the SN series through my tournaments in the Pro Payout.

Its not like I am trying to make a living off of it. haha
Re: Something to think about
March 09, 2011 06:46PM
Nice, Matthew.

rWc3523
Re: Something to think about
March 10, 2011 10:50AM
Gilligan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And something for nothing sounds like?

Sounds like the BoD, lol...

I would like to see a ratings system. However, I wouldn't like the idea of using it for the purpose of "forcing" people in or out of a particular division. A couple of years ago, I would have been in favor of that. I don't think it would work well with us having points races and the SN City Cup.

I do think it would be something cool to have if/when we revamp the site and have more content. It would add another competitive element to the SN. It's definitely something that would take a couple of years to get established and reliable enough.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Justin Tolbert
BHS Disc Golf [www.youtube.com]
Mobile, Alabama
Re: Something to think about
March 10, 2011 11:50AM
Well, I've been for getting rid of the Amateur points race and going pro only for that.

Also this to me is even more important with the SN Cup... as long as you have X rating when the Roster is submitted (or due maybe) then you would be locked in that spot. This would keep from having ringers at the SN Cup and be fair for others in those divisions that want to represent their cities but get "muscled" out because of said ringers. And only two positions Ams and Adv would be effected by that at the SN Cup.

Also, no one would ever force anyone out of a higher division.

My main question for those that don't like the idea of "forced divisions" is if your stats show that you should be playing in a higher division then why shouldn't you be playing in that higher division.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Take me to the window and understand
I got a rocking chair in my skin.
And every time the wind blows
It brings me down to meet the mood I'm in.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


SN Top25 Bag Tag database
BRDGA Top10 Bag Tag database
MADGA Top10 Bag Tag database
SFC Top10 Bag Tag database
Re: Something to think about
March 10, 2011 11:52AM
Amen Gilligan! hit the nail on the head!


Take the points away and there is one excuse gone for bagging
Re: Something to think about
March 10, 2011 12:12PM
Honestly I think the ams are more interested in the points race then the pros, but I could be wrong. Ratings-wise .... I like the idea of ratings but wouldn't be in favor of using those ratings to determine players placement in a tournament (ala the PDGA). The ratings if accurate will highlight those few players that may be playing in the wrong division, and I'm sure that will encourage them to move up.

JOhn k
Re: Something to think about
March 10, 2011 12:22PM
My vote goes to paying out less (or lower quality) to the lower divisions.
If players can win more, better (or just as good) prizes in INT, what is pushing them to want to play in ADV?

_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Justin Tolbert
BHS Disc Golf [www.youtube.com]
Mobile, Alabama
Re: Something to think about
March 10, 2011 12:39PM
Head has made a good offer at 50 or 25 cents per entrant. However you should not try to force it on TD’s. If a TD wants ratings he can get them.

[www.sndg.org];
Re: Something to think about
March 10, 2011 12:43PM
EXACTLY Justin. We should not reward the middle so much just because they are the largest group. Reward the top divisions. In ball golf the amount of "ams" to pros is astronomical, but they dont win anything for coming in 10th out of 20 at a golf tournament. They may get a lot of cool stuff at the begining....Shirt, golf towel, golf glove, etc....but not "place".

I know what the arguement is......"We are not ball golf!" Yeah well what they have been doing has been working for hundreds of years. Maybe it does work.

"HOGMAN"
HyZer Nation
Re: Something to think about
March 10, 2011 01:00PM
The best way to determine if all these ideas will work is to try them out. I think Justin said he is going to do just that. Thanks for stepping up and volunteering to put your ideas into practice.

rWc3523
Re: Something to think about
March 10, 2011 01:05PM
Sadly the points race usually boils down to one (maybe two people) making sure they stay a head of the TRUE Am that is busting his butt going to every tournament he can to get whatever points he can to try and keep up with the guy that is playing, at best, half the tournaments and just smoking the true Am in the points race.

Almost every year you can find examples of that.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Take me to the window and understand
I got a rocking chair in my skin.
And every time the wind blows
It brings me down to meet the mood I'm in.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


SN Top25 Bag Tag database
BRDGA Top10 Bag Tag database
MADGA Top10 Bag Tag database
SFC Top10 Bag Tag database
Re: Something to think about
March 10, 2011 01:06PM
as long as people dont say well thats not how WE DO IT every thirty seconds then that would be ok. We shall see if it works better for Justin then it did me. Good Luck man. If you need help i will do what I can.

"HOGMAN"
HyZer Nation
Re: Something to think about
March 10, 2011 01:19PM
Even if it works in his examples, should/would the SN Bod require TD's to run an event contrary to what THEY deem best for their area ?

"Bagging" in one area might not be an issue somewhere else.

rWc3523
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