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Advanced Division for Women

Posted by Bolty-Bolt 
Advanced Division for Women
June 30, 2011 10:54AM
Dear BoD,

Please use this this thread as reference... [www.sndg.org]

We want to start actively offering the advanced women's division in tournaments. Right now we have plans to offer this division in at least two tournaments before the end of this calendar year.

Will you please consider making a distinction between the advanced and intermediate women's points on the player stats? Also, will there be consideration made for the points discs as well?

Let's grow this sport and offer more to ladies.

What you say?
Re: Advanced Division for Women
June 30, 2011 11:28AM
I'm all for it. Distinction on the site may have to go through Brian (?) or John K.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Justin Tolbert
BHS Disc Golf [www.youtube.com]
Mobile, Alabama
Re: Advanced Division for Women
June 30, 2011 02:46PM
That's webmaster code stuff, so Brain Moon's area.....I also think that Senior pro grandmasters should also get consideration as well...

JOhn k
Re: Advanced Division for Women
June 30, 2011 03:58PM
This will be on the agenda for our next meeting :)
Re: Advanced Division for Women
June 30, 2011 04:11PM
Awesome!! Thanks to those who have responded both here and via PM!
Re: Advanced Division for Women
June 30, 2011 08:52PM
If there are at least 3 women who want to play this division at a tournament, then it should be allowed. Any less than 3???
Re: Advanced Division for Women
June 30, 2011 09:21PM
Any less than 3?? Yes, at any tourament I run it will be allowed. We allow am women, juniors, and novice without knowing a guarantee number. Will def allow adv women
No matter how many people in field.

I've played many tournaments where I was the only am woman. No one ever didn't allow me to play that division. I won't do that to someone else.
Re: Advanced Division for Women
June 30, 2011 10:20PM
Not only do I feel it should be offered (the numbers in results will encourage more to step up and play), but there should be monies collected seperate from am women. They should also have their own results page, just like the men do, and any money collected throughout the year should be in their purse for the am championships.

Once more women start to make that move, others will too. :)
Re: Advanced Division for Women
June 30, 2011 10:24PM
You mean just like the gender NON-specific division does. ;)

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And every time the wind blows
It brings me down to meet the mood I'm in.
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Anonymous User
Re: Advanced Division for Women
July 01, 2011 01:32PM
How about a lefty only division , 3 or more?
Re: Advanced Division for Women
July 02, 2011 12:41PM
We need more women ,but not divisions.

BMB
Re: Advanced Division for Women
July 03, 2011 05:41PM
BRIAN B Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We need more women ,but not divisions.

If you are able to let the TDs for the events know well ahead of time which "low attendance" divisions are showing up, then I support offering any division the players want. I hate coming up short on awards, as well as having a bunch of trophies or plaques left over.
Re: Advanced Division for Women
July 05, 2011 09:04AM
BRIAN B Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We need more women ,but not divisions.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why exactly do you feel we dont need an adv. div. for women?

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Ronda Key
Team KeyChains/PDGC President
Fort Walton Beach, Florida
Re: Advanced Division for Women
July 05, 2011 09:35AM
Bolty, at the 2007 SNAC at Tishomingo State Park, there was a division for Advanced Women.
Re: Advanced Division for Women
July 05, 2011 07:48PM
Just stating facts honey.More divisions,,less participants,I'm glad there's no longer am masters because where i come from it's PRO or AM.Ya feeling me?

BMB
Re: Advanced Division for Women
July 05, 2011 09:29PM
nope.... not feeling ya ;)

Where you come from, Mobile??, every tourney I have played in there, there has always been an advanced field offered for the guys, so again, why not for the ladies?

There are more and more females stepping in to play this sport and do not want to have to start out playing people that "rock on the course" ....so the next logical spot before stepping up to PRO would be advanced, in my opinion. :-)

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Teresa Key
KEY CHAINS DISC GOLF
Fort Walton Beach, FL
Re: Advanced Division for Women
July 06, 2011 08:43AM
BRIAN B Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just stating facts honey.More divisions,,less
> participants,I'm glad there's no longer am masters
> because where i come from it's PRO or AM.Ya
> feeling me?
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1. I'm not your honey! My name is Ronda Key and my sister and I have been working hard to bring kids and women into this sport! With that said, there is an adv. div. for the men, so there should be one for the women.
2. I have been playing now in the sn for 1and half years. I have seen all the people that play in the ams. when they shoudn't be. I want to move up because my play level has moved up, but do not want to play pro yet. So.........its only fair to offer a adv. div. for those people.
3. Really....,why do you care, last time I checked, you weren't in the womens div.! A womens div. shouldn't affect your 60 to 10 ratio between ams and adv men in the tourneys I've been to. If you want to work on something, work on that!

Are you feeling.......me!

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Ronda Key
Team KeyChains/PDGC President
Fort Walton Beach, Florida



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/06/2011 09:38AM by KEYCHAINSRK.
Re: Advanced Division for Women
July 06, 2011 09:14AM
It doesn't matter to me either way if they decide to have both an Advanced Women and Intermediate Women division. However, I think there are two reasons that it isn't that way right now.

#1, the Advanced and Intermediate divisions aren't men's divisions. They're open divisions.

#2, 1900+ people played in Advanced and Intermediate last year. 200+ played in Am Women.

If you can convince them to create another Women division, that's great. If not and you still want to move up, give the open Intermediate division a shot.

_______________________________________________________________
Justin Dyess

Overdrive Disc Golf
We buy and sell new and used discs. Check out our website.
Re: Advanced Division for Women
July 06, 2011 10:59AM
The division is there. All I was asking for was separation for points sake.

Either way...the division will still be offered, and if people want to play it then they are welcome. No matter how many.



Thanks for the BoD for the consideration of separation. Looking forward to hearing more discussion on this as it moves forward.
Re: Advanced Division for Women
July 06, 2011 11:35AM
contrast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It doesn't matter to me either way if they decide
> to have both an Advanced Women and Intermediate
> Women division. However, I think there are two
> reasons that it isn't that way right now.
>
> #1, the Advanced and Intermediate divisions aren't
> men's divisions. They're open divisions.
>
> #2, 1900+ people played in Advanced and
> Intermediate last year. 200+ played in Am Women.
>
> If you can convince them to create another Women
> division, that's great. If not and you still want
> to move up, give the open Intermediate division a
> shot.
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Yes, I agree with your numbers! Hence why we have been working hard to get women playing. I realize that its an open div., but not very many women are going to play with the men. Lets be real, yes there are several men that I can compete/beat on a weekly basis here in FWB, but realistically I will never be able to throw as far as them. I would already have a disadvantage before the horn blow. And from reading on here it looks to me that the am/adv div. has enough problems already with people not playing where they should.

There needs to be a div. for women who have adv. skills,before stepping up to pro,to make way for the new player to compete in tourneys without getting stomp (discouraged) everytime!

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Ronda Key
Team KeyChains/PDGC President
Fort Walton Beach, Florida
Re: Advanced Division for Women
July 06, 2011 12:59PM
I think he was saying that you are wrong by saying that the men has an adv division. Woman actually has more options of where to play because they don't have to be in a protected division.

With that said, 6 female players around here is a great female turnout. Am wm, pro wm, pro master wm is what I generally see. That's an avg of 2 per division. Would another division not water down already low turnouts?

Hell i can't wait to see more and more women play, maybe mobile and surrounding areas already have this.

A few years back only 1 person played int mast at the SNAC. Because of not enough masters, only advanced masters is offered as a division now.

Hope everything works out for the ladies division, but my opinion is that it's not needed yet.

Terry Zeringue
Re: Advanced Division for Women
July 06, 2011 02:02PM
No, I understand what he is saying about the open div.! Like I said, most women do not want to compete with the men. I resepct your opinion and everyone elses. I just have a different one!

There has to growth to enable growth, or the sn can stay stuck where it is! God knows that I could just start traveling to pdga events where there are more than enough women to fill the div. But I personally love playing in the sn, and want to see it grow.

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Ronda Key
Team KeyChains/PDGC President
Fort Walton Beach, Florida
Re: Advanced Division for Women
July 06, 2011 03:14PM
HAVE AT IT...........HOPE YOU BEAT THE 1 OR 2 OTHER COMPETITORS. IF i had your skill level and a skirt, i'd be playn pro-women.

BMB



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/06/2011 03:17PM by BRIAN B.
Re: Advanced Division for Women
July 06, 2011 03:32PM
KEYCHAINSRK Wrote:
--------------------------------------------.
>
> There needs to be a div. for women who have adv.
> skills,before stepping up to pro,to make way for
> the new player to compete in tourneys without
> getting stomp (discouraged) everytime!


That'a why BOLT started this thread,

BMB
Re: Advanced Division for Women
July 06, 2011 03:53PM
Wow.......just wow!

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Ronda Key
Team KeyChains/PDGC President
Fort Walton Beach, Florida
Re: Advanced Division for Women
July 07, 2011 06:33PM
Sorry I didn't pick this up sooner ladies, I've been avoiding the forums. My wife has banned me for the most part, but let me explain the decisions behind the adv/am women situation.

4 years ago we had 2 am women's divisions, am and adv. We had healthy turnout in both divisions. Then things went sketchy. We ended up with only 3-4 women in the entire series playing adv. The problem was and is the championships: we were requiring that am and adv women each receive at least a Mach 3 caliber basket for first and a nice basket for second as well as trophies for 3 places in each division and field events prizes. The cost was staggering.

Here is a breakdown:

2 Mach 3 baskets: $776
2 lower level baskets $280
6 trophies: $60-$120

Total: $1116

Those are prices from 2 years ago at Hartselle. We had 6 women attend. So, if we charged $100 an entrant, we would be putting $600 into the division from entries. The SN this season is owed $269 in am women's fees. So right off the bat, the am women's divisions would be underfunded by $247 without including the players packs.

Even with only having one division at Hartselle, the average woman recieved $358 in payout, while the average am male player got $316 even though am men collects 10 times the fees the women do.

So it was decided that we would offer one division. All monies during the year would go into just am women. TD's can and do offer ADV, but the money would still go into one big pot. At the champs, the ladies could divide into divisions however they want, but we only would require 2 baskets and 3 trophies for all am women. The money collected can be split evenly or by player between the divisions.

It wasn't meant as a slight. It was needed to help keep the SNAC TD from sinking tons of cash into am women. Remember as well that the junior division collects no fees during the year so it also has to be funded by taking money away from the larger divisions.

If you want to change things, the next BOD certainly should consider it. If they do, the financial requirements at the SNAC will have to be modified help the td handle it.

Josh Lenox
2009 SNAC TD
SN BOD member 2007-2011 (soooooo close to done!)
Re: Advanced Division for Women
July 08, 2011 08:37AM
Thanks Josh for the explanation :)

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Teresa Key
KEY CHAINS DISC GOLF
Fort Walton Beach, FL
Re: Advanced Division for Women
July 08, 2011 09:44PM
Has anyone thought about only giving away baskets in the top divisions of each Amateur division? This would encourage more people to play up as well.

Shane

Transparency of information breeds self correcting behavior!
Re: Advanced Division for Women
July 08, 2011 09:56PM
I like it Shane... But what do we do with the money?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Take me to the window and understand
I got a rocking chair in my skin.
And every time the wind blows
It brings me down to meet the mood I'm in.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


SN Top25 Bag Tag database
BRDGA Top10 Bag Tag database
MADGA Top10 Bag Tag database
SFC Top10 Bag Tag database
Re: Advanced Division for Women
July 10, 2011 12:51PM
I understand the argument of watering down divisions that already have low attendance. However, I also know many ladies (myself included) who would play tournament golf if it weren't for the baggers in the AM Women's division. I think that adding an ADV Women's division might increase the turnout.
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