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Turning down cash to bag at Am Championships

Posted by mobz 
Turning down cash to bag at Am Championships
August 18, 2011 09:43AM
I would like to see something put into place to stop such nonsense, this happens every year. Any input would be great.


Thanks Jmart
Re: Turning down cash to bag at Am Championships
August 18, 2011 10:29AM
I agree JMart!

But it is a double edged sword. In once sense they are more enticed to try a higher division knowing they can turn down cash to keep their status. This gets them out of the division they were bagging in before at least a little. This also shows "see, you DO belong in a higher division" though somehow it's always rationalized out (I had a great day, everyone else had a bad day, there were only 3 people... blah blah blah). The down side is they are allowed to bag at SNACs.

Samson did it one year and I felt he basically did it right... his skills had edged out adv and he was ready to test pro. It was right at the end of the season as you guys know. Maybe that was abusing the system, maybe that was the right way to handle it.

I'd at least like to see limits on how many times this can be done.

People try to say I'm bagging but I invite everyone to tune in and watch the amazing beating I take at SNACs by all the Adv guys that were Ams at the end of the season. :)

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And every time the wind blows
It brings me down to meet the mood I'm in.
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Re: Turning down cash to bag at Am Championships
August 18, 2011 10:35AM
This is a problem that should really be looked at. Seems that every year someone does this, actually the same someone has done this often at NO tourneys.
Re: Turning down cash to bag at Am Championships
August 18, 2011 10:36AM
And maybe that is a way of looking at it... does a particular individual do this repeatedly?

You are right though... it is being abused in some cases!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Take me to the window and understand
I got a rocking chair in my skin.
And every time the wind blows
It brings me down to meet the mood I'm in.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Re: Turning down cash to bag at Am Championships
August 18, 2011 10:43AM
If you win 3rd place at the POG in Masters with the field they had at the POG you should not be able to play Advance Masters....

Tournament Director: Steve Timm (amenities [at] cox.net)
Date(s): 03/12/2011 Attendance: 185 Event Value: $7,984

Pro Master
Place Name Rd 1 Rd 2 Total Winnings* Points
1st Mike Kernan 50 48 98 $240.00 13
2nd Will Timmons 50 52 102 $165.00 12
3rd Ronnie Adams 50 53 103 $90.00 9
3rd Kevin Weiss 49 54 103 $90.00 9
3rd Eddie Roser 50 53 103 $15.00 9
6th Kevin Nuckley 50 54 104 $15.00 8
7th Glen Fendley 49 58 107 $15.00 6
7th Pat Barnes 51 56 107 $15.00 6
9th Jon Fox 51 58 109 $15.00 4
9th Bill Tyler 51 58 109 $15.00 4
11th KC Heckathorn55 56 111 $15.00 2
11th Brad Wells 53 58 111 $15.00 2

_________________________________________________________________________
Keith "Sunshine" B.
Support An Angel Doubles Benefit 12 JANUARY 2013
Re: Turning down cash to bag at Am Championships
August 18, 2011 12:02PM
I say, if you turn down cash.... dont give them anything. Don't let people just accept plastic. Also, need to make it noticable on the website who has turned down the cash (if it stays the same). You can pull up a few names and see that they cashed in open but cant tell if they turned it down and they are playin in am championships.

If you know you want to keep am status, dont play pro.

Could be avoided (more than it is now) with a good ratings system.

Just my two cents
Re: Turning down cash to bag at Am Championships
August 18, 2011 01:23PM
I agree on the "Turn Down Cash and your SOL". You play Pro and refuse cash, it should simply go to the next man in line and you get nothing.

I don't think ratings is the "End all be all" of it either. My understanding is that the PDGA has it's fair share of baggers as well.

Jeff, I really don't know the answer. Something that might work would be requiring that anyone who finishes Top 3 (In a field of more than 10 competitors) at the SNAC is required to move up to the next level for 1 year or X amount of tournaments.

In this specific case, most everyone knows that Eddie is not an Am player based on his skills. But, if he always chooses to play as an Am then it's hard to force a move.

So for this year, the goal is to bring down Roser the PROser on his home course. ;)
Re: Turning down cash to bag at Am Championships
August 18, 2011 02:09PM
Ratings would keep people that usually shoot 1000 rated rounds out of ams. Not saying it would keep baggin all together but it would make people move up per rating.
Re: Turning down cash to bag at Am Championships
August 18, 2011 02:16PM
Problem is, if a guy is willing to turn down cash money during a tournament I'm sure he wouldn't have a problem tanking a few rounds as well to ensure his "rating" is where he wants it to be.
Re: Turning down cash to bag at Am Championships
August 18, 2011 03:24PM
Tanking a few rounds would be him losing money. That would be completely pointless for a bagger to do. Baggers usually stay in a division b/c they want to win more prizes b/c there is a bigger payout and better chance to win. They don't want to throw any tournaments. Atleaste that is why i bagged for a while.
Re: Turning down cash to bag at Am Championships
August 18, 2011 03:37PM
He wants to win prizes so he can sell them when the event is over and get the money. If he wins I hope no one will buy the basket, but............

_________________________________________________________________________
Keith "Sunshine" B.
Support An Angel Doubles Benefit 12 JANUARY 2013
Re: Turning down cash to bag at Am Championships
August 18, 2011 04:48PM
When i won my basket at lee naquin i had people offer me money right when I got it.
Re: Turning down cash to bag at Am Championships
August 18, 2011 05:33PM
dustin morris Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> If you know you want to keep am status, dont play
> pro.
>
> Could be avoided (more than it is now) with a good
> ratings system.
>

This gets complicated if you are playing in events that are dual sanctioned.
Re: Turning down cash to bag at Am Championships
August 18, 2011 05:40PM
If a player plays in the highest amateur division there is, then I don't care how good they are, they have a right to stay there for as long as they want. Nobody should EVER be required to move out of the amateur ranks and into the professional field.

Terry Zeringue
Re: Turning down cash to bag at Am Championships
August 18, 2011 05:42PM
Even if they can consistently cash in open field and have proven that they have the ability several time over?

_________________________________________________________________________
Keith "Sunshine" B.
Support An Angel Doubles Benefit 12 JANUARY 2013
Re: Turning down cash to bag at Am Championships
August 18, 2011 05:44PM
TheZinger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If a player plays in the highest amateur division
> there is, then I don't care how good they are,
> they have a right to stay there for as long as
> they want. Nobody should EVER be required to move
> out of the amateur ranks and into the professional
> field.

I agree. Some people are going for a PDGA AM Title, and they play in dual-sanctioned tournaments. It gets very tricky.
Re: Turning down cash to bag at Am Championships
August 18, 2011 08:11PM
According to pDGA standards, pros may play in AM divisions also (provided their rating is in the correct range).

Just to be clear, I am not in favor of either situation. After 3 years of playing in am divisions, I won TX States as an ADV player in 1989 and have never registered to play as an amateur since.
Re: Turning down cash to bag at Am Championships
August 19, 2011 03:10PM
John Rock Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> According to pDGA standards, pros may play in AM
> divisions also (provided their rating is in the
> correct range).
>

You are right. If you are a pro, you can play AM according to your rating in PDGA non-Major tournaments. PDGA pros can't play in AM divisions in Majors such as Worlds unless they are granted permission. Regardless, it still gets very tricky when you play in many SN and PDGA events. The safe thing to do is to stay AM. One small mistake can screw up a person's chance to play in PDGA AM Worlds. Forcing people to move up to pro would certainly add to the confusion, and it would not be right.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2011 03:44PM by Karen J..
Re: Turning down cash to bag at Am Championships
August 20, 2011 10:38AM
La Cote DGC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Even if they can consistently cash in open field
> and have proven that they have the ability several
> time over?


In my opinion, yes. Amateur and Professional divisions are two separate things. If one doesn't want to ever compete for cash, then that person has a right not to. Maybe if there was more incinitives to compete in a professional division, then more might, but it's a choice only that player should make. Stop giving away so much to all amateurs is a start.

Terry Zeringue
Re: Turning down cash to bag at Am Championships
August 20, 2011 11:33AM
I don't understand the attitude of "Stop giving away so much to all amateurs". In this series I don't see "giving away" to amateurs. I see amateurs competing for each others entry fees. Obviously Amateurs like doing that because they keep doing it. TD's like it because of the retail/wholesale factor. Whether it is a business model or volunteer model that helps build clubs, courses and the sport in general, it seems to be a good thing. Whether it is good or not though (for pro divisions for example) my point is: it is not a "give away".
Re: Turning down cash to bag at Am Championships
August 20, 2011 01:05PM
You are right Kevin, I used poor choice of words. Maybe I mean to not let amateur divisions win so much prizes, maybe lowering then entry lower than what it is would help that. But you are right about the giving away wording, poor choice of words.

Terry Zeringue
Re: Turning down cash to bag at Am Championships
August 20, 2011 03:01PM
Thanks for clarifying and I agree with you that lower entry and/or bigger player packs may be the way to go.
Re: Turning down cash to bag at Am Championships
August 23, 2011 09:52PM
I have a question! I have been playing in the SN for a year and a half now, so I've listen and heard alot of the Am,Pro, baggin crap! Just wondering why most everyone says if someone wants to stay in Ams forever, it should be there choice and know one elses. But why then do people have a goat when someone plays novice in the first ever tourney, not do very well, but are told they need to move up to Ams now! REALLY......, why the crap would someone brand new,playing like crap want to move up and play people who have been playing for years and kick butt everytime? Just wondering!!

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Ronda Key
Team KeyChains/PDGC President
Fort Walton Beach, Florida
Re: Turning down cash to bag at Am Championships
August 23, 2011 11:36PM
The question is what is that division supposed to be. We don't even know what to call it, Novice or Recreational. Those words really don't mean the same thing except in the DG tournament world. Is it for first time tournament players, players with a non-competitive attitude about the sport who might play an event just for the social aspect or is it the least skilled competitive division? Historically it is all three at the same time. If the SN rules answered these questions we would then know if staying in it is bagging or not. Then again, does it really matter as long as it sells tickets?
Re: Turning down cash to bag at Am Championships
August 29, 2011 04:42PM
EDDIE GOT SPANKED AT THE SNAC,So all this was for nota............

BMB
Re: Turning down cash to bag at Am Championships
August 29, 2011 04:46PM
And the guy that won my division is headed to Huntsville for the pro championships.If he cashes then yall can complain.

BMB
Re: Turning down cash to bag at Am Championships
August 29, 2011 05:02PM
I snapped a pic of B-hole at SNACs.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Take me to the window and understand
I got a rocking chair in my skin.
And every time the wind blows
It brings me down to meet the mood I'm in.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


SN Top25 Bag Tag database
BRDGA Top10 Bag Tag database
MADGA Top10 Bag Tag database
SFC Top10 Bag Tag database
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