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what do you say

Posted by mobz 
what do you say
November 17, 2011 03:01PM
well I have given you a solution to your or our problem. Real easy to do for the td and for the player. you as a player know if you won last year and would have no excuse for trying to play down. Td s should know who won their event if they dont they should not be a td


leo otto
Re: what do you say
November 17, 2011 09:52PM
I say this: If every TD who fails to memorize the names of all those who won their tournaments should not be a TD there will not be many TDs out there. Come to think of it, this would solve the bagging problem.

Gary Wagoner
Re: what do you say
November 17, 2011 11:41PM
you have to remember 5 names not real hard. I am an old man and can remember 5 names. It is the easiest fix I can think of with no effort.

leo
Re: what do you say
November 18, 2011 07:00AM
Sure, anyone can remember 5 names. But when 50 people are in line yammering to get signed up. People who I see only once or twice a year who expect me to know their name and how to spell it. Make change, sign the waiver, get in the ace pot, hand out the player pack, yada, yada, yada.....I am doing good to remember my own name much less who won the tournament a year ago.

I am curious, Leo, how many tournaments have you run?

Gary Wagoner
Re: what do you say
November 18, 2011 07:18AM
Or print the results from last tourney.
Re: what do you say
November 18, 2011 07:38AM
I like the idea, Leo. At our last meeting, we agreed to enforce the same thing in regards to the SNACs. We didn't delve deep into forcing players to move up during the actual season though. It was pretty much left at "TDs Discretion."

I'm all for us having something in writing from the board to give the TDs some leverage in the situation. Instead of the TD just saying, "You have to move up because I said so," we should have something for the TD to cite and use. I think your idea could be that cite. The TD could tell the player to move up and have some guidelines that the series has set in place to use as back up. In that situation, the player can't complain that they're unrightfully being forced to play a higher division.

Here are my questions though. Should it be a REQUIREMENT for the TD to make the player play up? Do we still leave it up to the TD to decide whether to use the rule? If it does become a REQUIREMENT, who is at fault if the player plays the lower division: the TD or the player?

_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Justin Tolbert
BHS Disc Golf [www.youtube.com]
Mobile, Alabama
Re: what do you say
November 18, 2011 08:32AM
I have been competing in tournaments since 87 and never as an amateur so bagging is not something that has been on my radar. It seems from all the discussion and rancor that bagging is a big deal amongst the amateur ranks. I think we have to ask what motivates someone to bag and the only answer I can think of is greed. In many of the larger events the am prizes are worth many hundreds of dollars that can readily be converted into cash. How many baskets and discs can one possibly use?

A simple, straight forward and easy way to discourage baggers is not to make it worth their while. In many sports amateurs get a trophy and maybe a T-shirt but that's it. Perhaps the answer is to lower the amateur fees and restrict the payout to a trophy and players pack. Which would cause amateurs the most heartburn: baggers and a payout or no baggers and no payout?

Gary Wagoner
Re: what do you say
November 18, 2011 08:48AM
I have run about 15 events. not a rookie. A print out and some help with sign up will help. I normally have three at sign up table. It does help to have help. I dont have a good memory either buso I count on my crew to help with that and they do. I can understand if you are alone but a print out would help you with this hell me too I will have one. Great idea the printout



leo
Re: what do you say
November 18, 2011 09:18AM
Reward the winning players with a free spot in the next level of competition in next years tourney as part of their pay out.
Re: what do you say
November 18, 2011 09:38AM
Fair enough, Leo. I do not want to waste my time debating the fine points of the backstroke with someone who has never been in the water.

If there are hard and fast rules for who is inelegible to play in a given amateur division the research ought not to be the responsibility of the TD. One of the Boards priorities should to be making a TDs job easier and not more difficult by piling more on his plate. Let the Board, therefore, issue an advisory to the TD a week before his tournament listing exactly who can not play in a given division.

My response would be to publish this list on the tournament thread and have that list in front of me at sign-up.

Gary Wagoner
Re: what do you say
November 18, 2011 10:06AM
when the bod make the rule I am sure we can post a list. I will do it for every event if they need me to

leo

free of cost
Re: what do you say
November 18, 2011 12:26PM
The thing is... it's not like it's ever really a secret. These people that go "under the radar" aren't REALLY going under the radar.

I've been at plenty of tournaments when someone was errantly called out and after we checked the facts we realized they were in their right (back then it was 6 months). The point is... people talk, people know... sometimes they don't have the balls to step up say it to the right people, but there are ALWAYS murmurs in the crowd... they don't go unnoticed.

Then again there are PLENTY of times when they ARE told about it and still NOTHING is done by the TD.

TD's don't want to ruffle feathers, especially if they are local players.

Board doesn't want to hold the TD's accountable and it IS a tricky spot. We NEED all the TD's we can get. But at some point if they blatantly disregard the "rules" shouldn't we hold them accountable? Same thing happens with funds not being turned in. We just let it slide.

None of this helps the series.

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Re: what do you say
November 18, 2011 12:34PM
It still goes back to do we make it a REQUIREMENT for those players in those tournaments? Or do we give the TD the discretion to make that call?

Also, if the TD doesn't make the player move up and allows them to play in the wrong division, who's at fault? TD or player?

_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Justin Tolbert
BHS Disc Golf [www.youtube.com]
Mobile, Alabama
Re: what do you say
November 18, 2011 01:35PM
make it a requirment that way tds that dont want to make people mad have no choice it is a rule. If they are not baggers then they will not cash.they will still be eligable for the snacs


leo

Most tds will not do this for saving face sake. I understand that but dont care about saving face AT ALL
Re: what do you say
November 18, 2011 02:55PM
I'm ok with making it a requirement as well.

If that's the case, who gets faulted when a player sneaks into a division? Is it the TD's or player's fault?

_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Justin Tolbert
BHS Disc Golf [www.youtube.com]
Mobile, Alabama
Re: what do you say
November 18, 2011 03:25PM
What if a player gets a win from an event that has been rained out? How about if there is only few in the div., my first win was in a field of 3 players. So going by that I would have to play pro next year and I am lucky to get last place cash now... So no this is not a fix all rule, could hurt more then it helps. Leave it up to the T.D. to make the call.
Anonymous User
Re: what do you say
November 18, 2011 04:18PM
Mobz, how long did it take yall to get the Citronelle Safari results up ? I rest my case.
Re: what do you say
November 18, 2011 06:53PM
it was my event Girly. I know who won why would that matter. It was up before the next one. I did that on purpose I could have had them up like every year and every event there Girly man. @#$%& Holes like you is why I did that. Rest your brain . How long did that come back take you. Get a life and worry about yourself. Hell you have run so many events you are the expert. NOT you barking up the wrong tree GIRLY


leo otto
Re: what do you say
November 18, 2011 06:58PM
you cant fix it all but it will fix most. Eric you are thinking of yourself. So what play up at one. I had to play up at the smackdown and got DFL. So what it did not hurt bad. Man up and play up when you win. Bunch of sissy chumps. I have been doing that for years


leo otto
Re: what do you say
November 18, 2011 10:06PM
and most of the ones I move up I finish DFL. If you are not bagging you will not cash


leo otto
Re: what do you say
November 18, 2011 10:29PM
Leo, I use personal examples as facts. I find that better then someone making up a crazy story that really couldn't happen. I'm already playing up from where I want to be. The way the rule is going to be set up it gives the TD's the ability to take care of the baggers and not those unlucky enough to win once evey year or two.
Re: what do you say
November 18, 2011 10:45PM
I see your point but still think it would not hurt the player that is not bagging and would give some else the win at hat event. I am embarrased if I repeat in n am division but thats just me. I have never repeated on singles as I move up but I have in doubles


leo
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