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SN Handbook Questions
December 20, 2013 04:20PM
I see two versions of the handbook, a 2012 and a "new." Why are both published? Shouldn't the seperceded version be deleted?

Both versions dictate 6 members, and list Jim Orum as a 7th "non voting" member. Prior to the recent resignation there were only five. When was this changed?

How often are meetings held? When was the last one? Are the minutes published?

I didn't see any requirements for publishing the status of the finances. Is it annually, semiannually, quarterly?
Re: SN Handbook Questions
December 21, 2013 01:59AM
This is the one you want:
[www.sndg.org]

I imagine it is labeled as the 2012 book because it was completed in 2012. It should have been labeled the 2013 handbook because that is when it became effective, 01/09/2013. I posted the link to the passage minute on this version the next day and they loop to each other, cross authenticating this version as the one adopted. I recommended an official voted-on statement of supersession / replacement of the previous (2005) handbook but never saw that happen. If you find a language conflict with any versions excluding the 2005 you are deemed an expert on the SN rules (yes that is just my opinion).

We had only 5 because somebody quit the BOD before Mr. Two coin (no disrespect intended - it's a name he picked).

The BOD minutes are in the same section as the handbook linked above.

If you find any finances publishing requirements in a SN rule book you are again deemed an expert on SN rules. I think JK is about the only one to ever nail that duty and he used some kind of military ninja magic skill to get it done without any rule.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2013 02:12AM by Discjazz.
Questions, Questions and More Questions
December 21, 2013 10:04AM
Is Jim Orum still holding the honorary seat? If not, will his seat revert to a full (two year) seat next year? Also, Mr. Nyce announced in the General Discussion thread that one seat needed to be filled. Shouldn't it be two, including the 6th seat?

It appears that a meeting was held on 26 November, but no minutes are posted. When will they be posted? Have there been any subsequent meetings?

Statements of the Account seemed to have been reported on a monthly (approximately) basis until around July 2013. I know that JK had been deployed, and I recall 2Coin saying that there was a problem with availability of the spreadsheet at one time. Is the status available for publishing?

Current status of new website? Will all history of forum be retained?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2013 10:39AM by Warlord.
Re: SN Handbook Questions
December 21, 2013 02:28PM
We held a vote on the number of members on the BOD's to be 5 voting members. So currently we have 4, and are in need of another.

As for the Finances, Allan Morrow is handling them so he will need to answer that part.

The new website as I understand it, will be able to hold some of the history from these forums but not all.
Re: SN Handbook Questions
December 21, 2013 02:38PM
My theory is that a majority of the regular voting BOD members liked it being only 5. Rule 3 reads that as little as 4 regular voting members is acceptable, yet now there is a BOD push to make it 5 again not 6. There are no quorum or majority vote rules that I know of, but if majority rule applies then having 5 meant 3 in agreement would control. It also meant Jim O was always out of the loop. Now that there are only 4 there is at least a chance of Jim getting the controlling vote, which is clearly the intent of Rule 3.
Re: SN Handbook Questions
December 21, 2013 03:23PM
Did Mr. Orum retire, or was the position abolished? Suggestion....when published rules or bylaws are changed, it would be advisable to actually make changes to the appropriate document(s).

Are meetings being held? Will minutes be published?

What is the estimated start-up date of the website? Is the beta version available for the public to view? Does the BoD have an estimated cost?

I haven't seen Hogman here lately, is there any way possible for you to contact him to see if he has the data ready for publication? Not that I have anything riding on it, nor do I have any suspicions of misappropriation, but with the lack of communications by the BoD to the players in over a month, I think it would be a positive move.

Keep your chins up, BoD, you have a tough job....and whatever you think, I appreciate it.

...but every organization needs a rabble-rouser.

Merry Christmas
Re: SN Handbook Questions
December 21, 2013 03:27PM
Didn't see your post, Discjazz. Is Jim still in the loop? I'm confused...not drunk (yet)...just confused.
Re: SN Handbook Questions
December 21, 2013 05:26PM
I think they voted to not have a special election for the 6th seat. Either way rule 3 is the rule and I've read no dispute about that. Jim's been out of the loop only because of the odd number. There should be no special election unless it is for 2 more.
Re: SN Handbook Questions
December 21, 2013 05:31PM
That's how I interpret the section.
Re: SN Handbook Questions
December 21, 2013 11:20PM
Discjazz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think they voted to not have a special election
> for the 6th seat. Either way rule 3 is the rule
> and I've read no dispute about that. Jim's been
> out of the loop only because of the odd number.
> There should be no special election unless it is
> for 2 more.


I can help answer most of this. Zack stepped off the board while the election process for the 3 new members was going on. We decided to postpone the election for his seat until after the yearly election was over. When Adam, Johnathon, and Ryan got elected they along with Chuck and Allan had a vote to decide if they wanted to eliminate the 6th seat and continue with 5 BOD members. The vote eliminated the 6th seat, another vote would have to take place to bring back the 6th seat in the future.

Going by the rate of member dropping over the last 4 years, and the less and less of people running for election. I think it was a smart move. Unless We get more people running for election soon, there may be more seats eliminated in the future. This will lead to a point where the SN will fail or change, I for one would like to see the SN change to somewhat mirror PDGA with paid memberships, but I don't see the current SN Players agreeing to that anytime soon.
Re: SN Handbook Questions
December 22, 2013 07:25AM
Quote
Warlord from General Discussion thread
The process should have been:
1. The BoD had an official meeting in which a vote was held on this subject. (This happened)
2. A notice of the vote/change is made public. (This also happened in posting the minutes)
3. Rule is changed by changing the section/paragraph in the SN Handbook. (This did not happen)

I believe that this is the procedure that Discjazz has in mind. It is a similar process to those used in most governments and organizations.

I'm not arguing the vote....just agreeing with Discjazz that the rule was not officially changed. 4, 5 or 6....doesn't matter to me that much, but finish the process by changing the handbook.


Good discussion.....now back to your regularly scheduled program.....

That leaves the other questions:

Are meetings being held? Will minutes be published?

What is the estimated start-up date of the website? Is the beta version available for the public to view? Does the BoD have an estimated cost?

I haven't seen Hogman here lately, is there any way possible for you to contact him to see if he has the financial data ready for publication? Not that I have anything riding on it, nor do I have any suspicions of misappropriation, but with the lack of communications by the BoD to the players in over a month, I think it would be a positive move.

Note: Thank you, Eric, for your detailed response.
Re: SN Handbook Questions
December 22, 2013 09:44AM
Alan,
You can contact Hogman on Facebook. Allan Morrow........

___________________________________________________________________________
Keith "Sunshine" B.
Rumble in Ragley, version 1.0
15 November 2014
Field limited to 90 players
[www.facebook.com]
Re: SN Handbook Questions
December 22, 2013 10:17AM
I have not been on the forum in a long while. Sorry for this. I will have an updated financial later this week after christmas. I have been keeping up with the money well. I will have to get all my logs in order to post. Hope that helps. Meeting minutes will continue to be posted after the next meeting we have after the first of the year.

"HOGMAN"
HyZer Nation
Re: SN Handbook Questions
December 22, 2013 10:51AM
Thank you.
Re: SN Handbook Questions
December 22, 2013 12:09PM
Eric Day Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The vote
> eliminated the 6th seat, another vote would have
> to take place to bring back the 6th seat in the
> future.


I respectfully disagree with that statement. In support of my disagreement I cite rule 3 as it exists today. It provides there are 6 voting members plus the 7th Jim Orum seat. That is indisputable proof that the bod vote to eliminate the 6th seat did not in fact eliminate the 6th seat (unless of course the handbook is completely useless and nobody has to follow it). Also, I have seen no proof that a rule change was voted on at all. I do see the bod decided to change the rule, but I have not seen a vote on a proposed rule change. Therefore another vote is required to eliminate the 6th and 7th seats. It needs to be a vote on which words to delete and insert in the handbook.
Re: SN Handbook Questions
December 22, 2013 12:45PM
I just took a peek at Section 3 of the Handbook and realized that that proposed/actual change effects a good portion of the section. From what I can tell, the following subsections must be rewritten to make the Handbook reflect the change as a whole:

3.1.1
3.1.2
3.8.1
3.9.2
3.9.3 (possibly)
3.9.5

Also, if the change is/was made to make the season to coincide with the calendar year, these will need to change:

3.3.1
3.4.1
3.5.1
3.6.1

...and that doesn't include two additions that I would suggest:

Establish a frequency for BoD meetings. I would suggest a minimum of once monthly.
Establish a frequency for reporting of publishing the Statement of Account. I suggest quarterly.

...these are just for Section 3....

No small task, guys. Makes me happy that I never volunteered for your job.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2013 12:47PM by Warlord.
Re: SN Handbook Questions
December 22, 2013 02:25PM
Discjazz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Eric Day Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The vote
> > eliminated the 6th seat, another vote would
> have
> > to take place to bring back the 6th seat in the
> > future.
>
>
> I respectfully disagree with that statement. In
> support of my disagreement I cite rule 3 as it
> exists today. It provides there are 6 voting
> members plus the 7th Jim Orum seat. That is
> indisputable proof that the bod vote to eliminate
> the 6th seat did not in fact eliminate the 6th
> seat (unless of course the handbook is completely
> useless and nobody has to follow it). Also, I
> have seen no proof that a rule change was voted on
> at all. I do see the bod decided to change the
> rule, but I have not seen a vote on a proposed
> rule change. Therefore another vote is required
> to eliminate the 6th and 7th seats. It needs to
> be a vote on which words to delete and insert in
> the handbook.


Maybe eliminated is not the right word...temporarily choose to not use the 6th seat...either way there is not currently a 6th Board member seat to be filled. As I said in the other post, if I get elected I will go over all this stuff with You guys and get it fixed. It shouldn't take more then 1 meeting to get everything fixed as long as I we can get a little help from You guys.
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