Chris, You would be placing the order not the bod. There will be an account where you would order anything needed. With that both would then split the Fair market valued amount. 7.50wChampion given out at 12.50{there is now a guide that all vendors are required to follow, i will not go into all the details here but will glaady discuss it with anyone} fair retail value then divided. Im sure some would suggest the board is doing the same thing but, this money is not going to anyone person but back into the same account where it came from. This money is the PLAYERS money not an individual. Bare in mind if there is more than needed im sure it will find its way where need be. the host will also when placing the order be able to purchase discs for there own personal gain. I think there is no limit on the potential income there. CFR's are sponsorship's so the host can do Whatever they see fit. This is another chance at 1k or more of unrestricted cash flow. I feel confident that everyone can and will benifit from the proposed guidlines but, nothing is in stone as of yet:o]
The 1k pro spot was away of keeping someone from taking the money and running$ If is was 500 based on last years numbers they could have made over 3 times the money they put in. Im figuring it would be 1:2 this year at 1k. The key is to get involvement during the year and not just the championship. Besides if one fish bites, you got a nice chunk of change to start!
I think this is awesome that everything is out in the open for everyone. The input from everyone will help so keep it coming, cause noothing is in stone yet. Boba

Thanks Chris
Everyones input is welcomed and encouraged. A lot of the decisions we need to make to move forward have been discussed with little input from the players. This forum is one of the main tools for getting that input and constructive input is always welcome. The main points probably won't change but there is still room for tweaking if a good agrument is made. It's seems it's easier to object after the fact then give input before hand, that's human nature. Nothing wrong with that and we are flexible enough to listen before and after. Everyone please continue to post comments and suggestions, players input is very important to make sure we are going in the right direction.

John k

let me restate, Boba:

The board is the middleman if they have their collective hands in the middle taking a piece of the margin for whatever use. Using your example:

a $7.50 Champion at wholesale is bought by the host club through the account set up by the board.

The board has stipulated that the retail value of that plastic should be $12.50 for a total $5 markup.

My understandin is that the host club gets half of that markup and the board gets half.

So now the host city has $2.50 to add back to the payout instead of the $5 they would have had if the board was involved only in oversight.

Why not instead put a cap on the payout at, say 150% or 175% (which would include the stipulated player's packs, trophies, etc). The board then sets up the account the host city buys the payout plastic and baskets or gets them supplied at cost and gets full benefit of the markup margin to make the payouts.

The SN series would then get what was left over after the players got the best possible stipulated payout rather then the series getting their cut before the players got anything.

Remember these are the championship events. It is precisiely the moment we SPEND money on the players, CELEBRATE their participation throughout the year and make sure everyone goes home HAPPY.

There are plenty of other venues throughout the tournament year where the SN series can pick up some ancillary income. I argue that the championships should not be one of them at least UNTIL the players get theirs.

Well said Chris. If everythnig goes back to the player i am all for it!

Chris
My understanding is that as it is now the baskets were the only item discussed that the sn would split the difference with the host. Buying discs and other merchandise whether bought by the sn or the host should be given to the host at cost in my opinion, that is where the host has the opportunity to put a dent in the required 125% payout. The only discussion regarding the purchase of items other than baskets was that the host should be in communication with the sn when making large purchases for the championships to make sure that the sn money is being spent efficiently.

Like Bob stated this is not written in stone and if this is the largest issue we have that's a good thing. I have no problem with giving the baskets to the host at cost. In my opinion that is probably the simpilest method. For next season I will be proposing taking 25 cents from the $2 Sn fee for sn expenses and promotion. That way we have the means to do stuff like buy banners pay entry fee for points winners, purchase bag tags (so Mikeys dream of all the actual proceeds from BTs going to the SNPC becomes a reality), ect...

Comments encouraged...

John k



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2005 10:13AM by John K.

JK don't worry, i won't have anything to say once the plan is laid down, i'm just glad to see progress after 2 years of shenanigans.

sorry, John ... Bob (a board member) used plastic to illustrate his example, so I assumed that was part of the deal

I am? my bad!

I like it.....I like it a lot! : )

Griff

that's what she said griff!

dang, the video's out already?

knew she couldn't keeep her mouth shut.....

wait, I didn't want her to keep her mouth shut!! AAAAAAIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!

Griff

I know you will not by this but, we once dated for over a month several years back. I have lots of photos! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!

Chris,

The SN can make a purchase of, say, 20 baskets at one time, the resulting savings will more that compensate for the split on the difference between retail and wholsale. Plus the fact that the percentage that the SN makes funds many more things to improve the overall tournament experience, not just for the Championships, but for all SN events.

We DO want every TD, player, and spectator, to leave with great memories of a great event.

I can see a time in the future, when we could possibly offer a "players" price to purchase their own personal basket. Coordinating the purchase to when we buy the ones for the coming year. Everyone is a winner! This would add to the total number purchased and possibly reduce the price even more.

Something to think about.

The basket purchase will also provide some baskets throughout the year for extra fund raising opportunities and incentives, such as the Competition Bag Tag Ace Runs. The percentage the SN makes on the baskets furnished to the Championships will help to have these extra ones on hand and available at the larger events.

We are in negotiations with all the major manufactures at this time to see just what kind of deal we can work out.

You may just see a major Southern National Pro/Am Tournament Series Sponsor before it is all done.

One more reason to put our best foot forward when posting on this forum.

The Southern Nationals is gaining attention, and I see this as a very good thing to the overall growth and prosperity of the Series, benifiting all the TD's, Players, spectators, and vendors alike.

One more thing, on the $1000 Pro excemption!

Many Pro players have sponsors helping to defray their costs to attend events. This will keep the "ringer" from coming in to clean up at the Pro Championships, even if they may be using the deeper pockets of a mayor sponsor.

For the Am players who wishes to play in the SNPC, I would not be adverse to having them pay the same fee as for the SNAC, being that they are truly Amateur Players, and without the resources of a major sponsor.

Again, something to think about.

I see great things in the future for our sport, the players, and the Southern National Pro/Am Tournament Series. With the support and constructive input of the players, there is no limit to what we can accomplish.

We welcome new and fresh ideas from everyone, either through this forum or by direct emails or phone, so keep those great ideas coming.

Dg Guy - Disc GOlf Plaques & Awards
662-660-0339

Know what you throw. . .
. . . throw what you know!

holy cow, who wrote that for you Bill? :)

...edited because i forgot to read all posts...

Terry Zeringue




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2005 01:16PM by TheZinger.

Mikey,

Actually, it must have come in a vision. . or was it that third cup of Blue Mountain?

Most of it is the same ole, same ole, I have been saying all along, I did, however, proofread it few more times than I normally do.

Dg Guy - Disc GOlf Plaques & Awards
662-660-0339

Know what you throw. . .
. . . throw what you know!

The vast majority of SN players Pros or Ams do not have sponsors nor deep pockets. But if an AM player wants in the Pro Championship they should have to pay the same as everyone else. No entry fee discounts to the Championship.
And they still need to meet the points requirement.??

JABBA

Jabba,

I may be mistaken, and someone correct me if I am wrong, but I thought the sponsorhip excemptions were for those who did not have points in the first place.

As everyone knows, all they have to do is play in ONE event in a Pro Division to get the required points to save the big fee, which is not that hard to do.

SN sanctioned Ice Bowls are a great event to get this requirement out of the way right off, then there is no issue.

Dg Guy - Disc GOlf Plaques & Awards
662-660-0339

Know what you throw. . .
. . . throw what you know!

Good job by the board, the time and effort you volunteer are appreciated more than you realize.

However...

It is fools gold to think that these new requirements are going to get people like Mike to shut his fat mouth. Memphis would have met or exceeded every one of these requirements at the 2004 SNAC, yet time and time again Mike called us crooks and continues to imply that Memphis stole SN funds. The only person I ever heard complain about that tournament was Kernan and of course he wasn't even there (though his play might make one think he is an am).

I'm sure there will continue to be unfounded @#$%& and name calling, but I wouldn't expect anything less from someone who is by nature jealous, insecure, and suffers from incredibly low self esteem. Mike, whatever comedy value your posts once contained have long ago played out. Please burn the rest of your bridges and go. Go away happy or go away mad but please, take your vitriolic drivel and just go away.

DC

good one DC, talk about the pot calling out the kettle. since you don't know me you're just as guilty of saying stuff you don't have a clue about, like you accuse me of. but, nice try rookie!

Thanks for the vote on the sponsorship exemptions. I agree with LaSonde that the pro fee seems a little high (@#$%&, twice in one year), but the AM fee is very fair.

SN Board Meeting – 14 Dec 05 – Dual Sanctioning / Basket Purchase

Members in attendance: Bill McCarty, Russ Corey, Robert McDonald, and Bob Satter

Topics of discussion:

1. Dual Sanctioning: The majority present did favor upholding the SN rules as they stand. No resolution was determined.

2. SN Basket purchasing for the SNAC, Bill had contacted both Innova and DGA and their responses were touched on. Tabled until more members were present.

Comments...

John k

The TD would need to get permission from the PDGA if you won't let a pro player with a low enough rating to play ADV in a PDGA sanctioned event.

Terry Zeringue

Zing,

We have communicated, via emails, exploring the option of:

1. IF the player has a PDGA rating established the rating rules of the PDGA would apply, in a dual sanctioned event. The player would still have to play per Southern National guidelines in a Southern National event.

So, if the Amateur player cashes in the Pros, accepts the money, then they would be playing as a Pro in Southern National events per the handbook. If they cash, and turn down it down, AND do not accept prizes in leu of the cash, per PDGA guidelines, then they would remain an Amateur player in the Southern Nationals.

2. If a Southern National Pro player has no PDGA rating, then they would play per the Southern National guidelines, until such time as they obtain a PDGA rating.

This will make life a little easier for the TD's of dual sanctioned events.

This will also leave fewer obstacles in the way for the growth of the sport, and both the PDGA and the Southern Nationals.

Amateur and advanced players move around anyway, so there is not much difference there.

The above topics, I am sure, will be major topics of the next meeting.

Myself, and others, would like to see the Amateur payouts at dual sanctioned events to remain more in line with the Southern Nationals! If the payouts lean more to the PDGA norm, I am sure you will start to see many Amateur players not attending these events.



Dg Guy - Disc GOlf Plaques & Awards
662-660-0339

Know what you throw. . .
. . . throw what you know!

I now understand what you and JK are saying. Thanks for the clarifications. I just don't know if the SN would be allowed to tell a player they can't play adv because they cashed in pro in the SN and they don't have a pdga rating. I am wondering if the pdga will have a problem with that since the division that person is playing in is sactioned by the pdga.

Also, if a SN Pro joins the pdga in the Adv division, still has no rating (because he hasn't played a tournament while he was a member), he has the right to play Adv in a dual sanctioned event.

Let's use KC as an example. He just cashed at P-Cola. He joins the pdga as a christmas gift and is a member of the AM division because he thinks that's where he belongs in the pdga. He gets his number and wants to play a dual sanctioned event in Jan or Feb or March, etc. He has no pdga rating to tell him where to play, but according to pgda rules he has every right to play in the AM division (as an ADV or INT) because he is classified as an AM in the pdga.

Terry Zeringue

KC is a bagger and should have long since been a pro but, he would be allowed to play down untill he gets a rating or five pounds of sand:} J/k

I guess all I'm saying is make sure the wording is VERY clear whichever way you guys vote.

Terry Zeringue

One of the reasons it takes SOOOOOOOOOOOO long to get anything done!

Dg Guy - Disc GOlf Plaques & Awards
662-660-0339

Know what you throw. . .
. . . throw what you know!

I disagree with Bob....I would say that if KC (hypothetically) did that then we could punish him Sn-wise for playing in the wrong division. Until he has a rating he is considered a pro by the SN in dual sanctioned events. (He has taken money as a pro in an SN event and has no PDGA rating that states that he can play in any other division other than pro)

In that case did he break a PDGA rule no, did he break a SN rule, yes. You can "what if" a situation to death because unless you make the rules phone book sized there will always be gray areas. The goal it to keep the rules as simple as well as comprehensive as possible.

Thanks for letting us use you as an example KC...

John k

He might not be breaking a pdga rule, but the TD would be.

Rule 804.08 Classification of Players

G. A director may not restrict a player from playing in the division which the player is registered with the PDGA, unless the director has established a fair procedure which gives players advance notice AND said procedure has been approved by the PDGA Competition Director



The SN can not say that we are going to follow the PDGA rules if the TD running the tournaments are not going to follow them.

This is a rule and if PDGA rules trump SN rules, then KC should be able to do as he pleases without breaking SN rules.

I'm not saying this will ever happen, just pointing out some of the pdga rules that might give TD/players of the SN problems.

Terry Zeringue