Doug, Sorry for not responding sooner and I understand your position on wanting to know how someone voted or would have voted. I believe I've only missde one meeting or was late for a meeting, only because of work.

As far as allowing ams into the SNPC, I'm for it, as long as all the pros that can play have the opportunity before ams are allowed in. I don't think ams that don't have the skills will put up the entry fee, so you shouldn't have to worry about golfers that will slow down play.

I have no problem with my votes being made public and if I should miss a vote, I'll be glad to explain where I stand.

As far as not answering this sooner, like many people, I got tired of what the form had become and continue to hear from golfers up here that they no longer use the forum becuase of the garbage that had been posted here for several months. Even though it seems to have ended, they apparently have no desire to return. Others told me they didn't want to steer potential sponsors to the site becuase of the content. Without mentioning places, there are some folks who might not be sanctioning sn events because of some of the nonsense. If this happens, it will be obvious who they are.

I got sick of being constantly attacked for no apparent reason, so I quit posting. After a while, there was no reason to return because there were no threads I cared to post in. That's still the case as the traffic here isn't what it used to be. Our biggest thread now has to do with whining about sandbaggers. Hopefully players will return, but many of them have migrated to other more local forums to communicate with each other.

If you want to communicate with me, the best thing to do is call or send me an email. Russ C.

hey,i resemble that comment,calling out baggers is a big help to the southern nationals.




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2006 07:43PM by GregOsnose3.5.

"All bump rules in PDGA sanctioned events are invalid and not applicable. Players shall be
allowed to play in any divisions they might be eligible for, if those divisions are offered by
the tournament director."

according to this, i don't know how the SN can tell a player he can not play ADV in a dual sactioned tourney even if he has no rating, if someone where to complain to the pdga about a SN tourney not allowing him to play in a division he is eligible for, the td of the tourney could get in trouble.

Terry Zeringue

TheZinger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "All bump rules in PDGA sanctioned events are
> invalid and not applicable. Players shall be
> allowed to play in any divisions they might be
> eligible for, if those divisions are offered by
> the tournament director."
>
> according to this, i don't know how the SN can
> tell a player he can not play ADV in a dual
> sactioned tourney even if he has no rating, if
> someone where to complain to the pdga about a SN
> tourney not allowing him to play in a division he
> is eligible for, the td of the tourney could get
> in trouble.
>
> Terry Zeringue

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????WHAT THE ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

isn't that why they have the 6 mos. rule anyway--to cover that, Zing?

if they are eligible, then they ARE eligible and the TD should NOT be able to go against the rules he is playing the tourney by.....i.e. TD could not/should not refuse an eligible player his eligible division(even if it is lower than his "normal" division)....



Griff

thus the creation of the bagger.....lest we forget....

Griff

JK wrote
"Topics of discussion:

1. Dual Sanctioning: The majority present did favor upholding the SN rules as they stand. No resolution was determined."

TheZinger wrote
"The TD would need to get permission from the PDGA if you won't let a pro player with a low enough rating to play ADV in a PDGA sanctioned event."

DG Guy wrote
"Zing,

We have communicated, via emails, exploring the option of:

1. IF the player has a PDGA rating established the rating rules of the PDGA would apply, in a dual sanctioned event. The player would still have to play per Southern National guidelines in a Southern National event.

So, if the Amateur player cashes in the Pros, accepts the money, then they would be playing as a Pro in Southern National events per the handbook. If they cash, and turn down it down, AND do not accept prizes in leu of the cash, per PDGA guidelines, then they would remain an Amateur player in the Southern Nationals.

2. If a Southern National Pro player has no PDGA rating, then they would play per the Southern National guidelines, until such time as they obtain a PDGA rating."


TheZinger wrote
"I just don't know if the SN would be allowed to tell a player they can't play adv because they cashed in pro in the SN and they don't have a pdga rating. I am wondering if the pdga will have a problem with that since the division that person is playing in is sactioned by the pdga.

Also, if a SN Pro joins the pdga in the Adv division, still has no rating (because he hasn't played a tournament while he was a member), he has the right to play Adv in a dual sanctioned event.

Let's use KC as an example. He just cashed at P-Cola. He joins the pdga as a christmas gift and is a member of the AM division because he thinks that's where he belongs in the pdga. He gets his number and wants to play a dual sanctioned event in Jan or Feb or March, etc. He has no pdga rating to tell him where to play, but according to pgda rules he has every right to play in the AM division (as an ADV or INT) because he is classified as an AM in the pdga."

Bob wrote
"he would be allowed to play down untill he gets a rating or five pounds of sand:} J/k"

JK wrote
"I disagree with Bob....I would say that if KC (hypothetically) did that then we could punish him Sn-wise for playing in the wrong division. Until he has a rating he is considered a pro by the SN in dual sanctioned events. (He has taken money as a pro in an SN event and has no PDGA rating that states that he can play in any other division other than pro)

In that case did he break a PDGA rule no, did he break a SN rule, yes. You can "what if" a situation to death because unless you make the rules phone book sized there will always be gray areas. The goal it to keep the rules as simple as well as comprehensive as possible."

TheZinger wrote
"He might not be breaking a pdga rule, but the TD would be.

Rule 804.08 Classification of Players

G. A director may not restrict a player from playing in the division which the player is registered with the PDGA, unless the director has established a fair procedure which gives players advance notice AND said procedure has been approved by the PDGA Competition Director



The SN can not say that we are going to follow the PDGA rules if the TD running the tournaments are not going to follow them.

This is a rule and if PDGA rules trump SN rules, then KC should be able to do as he pleases without breaking SN rules.

I'm not saying this will ever happen, just pointing out some of the pdga rules that might give TD/players of the SN problems."

JK wrote
"like that the TD of dual sanctioned events can stipulate that if you don't have a PDGA rating you play where you normally would at tournaments you attend."



All I am saying is that the TD could "get in trouble with the PDGA"(whatever that would mean) if a player tells the pdga that he/she was pdga eligble to play in Adv, but the TD of the tournament wouldn't let him/her because he didn't have a pdga rating AND he cashed in OPEN at a SN event. It doesn't matter if that person was a pdga member, the tournament would be pdga sanctioned so everyone (after non-members pay the "$5 one day pdga pass") is a member for that tournament therefor must be able to play by pdga rules.

With this said, I HATE THE FACT THAT A PRO CAN MOVE DOWN A WEEK AFTER HE CASHES IN OPEN IF THE RATING IS LOW ENOUGH. I am just pointing out some facts that the board just doesn't want to see.



Terry Zeringue

Zinger, that is the exact reason I voted aganist the proposal. I also do not understand how a player can win a big SN event one week and play as Am. the next week in a dual sanctioned event. Dual sanctioned is still an SN event and that player is a Pro by SN standards.

i would love to give KC a sandbagger of the week award.


"i am pure EVIL,now give me your funds"
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Zinger, you want your seat back???? I agree that KC is by all standards an SN pro and feel comfortable in saying no troble would come from turning him away. just in case I will contact the PDGA and ask.

I just used KC as an example a while back. That's all I really wanted--just for somebody from the board to ask the PDGA before setting a rule in stone.

Terry Zeringue

The PDGA set their rating system and rules for division play to keep people from playing down in divisions. The PDGA has a more complex system of determining your status as a player. On the other hand , our's is very simple. I believe that the both of us are trying to achieve the same goal. I think the PDGA would respect our decisions on players in dual sanctioned events. The same as we respect alot of their rules and regulations that we don't normally have. ie...$5 fee to non-members when we have dual sanctioned events.

zack, it's not about the SN respecting their rules, it's about the pdga not letting a a tournament be sanctioned unless they follow the pdga rules. And you can't "think" the pdga will respect our decision, you have to call and ask so you will know.

Terry Zeringue

Tax Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Zinger, you want your seat back???? I agree that


HAHAHA,, Bob, there are reasons why i stepped down that only a few know. and it is not what you know.

Terry Zeringue

Once again ZING ding your are presumptious. I never said I knew anything:}}} nor do I care to. It was merely a question since you still have some concerns for the BOD and players alike. That is a good thing.
I will let you know the answer when i hear back.

Tax Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Once again ZING ding your are presumptious. I
> never said I knew anything:}}} nor do I care to.

a presumptious i think not. i remember telling you and everyone else a reason. but it doesnt matter now

Terry Zeringue

zinger, you've obviously never been the TD for a PDGA event. if you had been, you'd realize that the PDGA does not enforce its own rules and standards. they don't have the time or staff or competence and if you send them the money they think they're owed they won't say diddly poop. they may smell like poop though since they think showers are for ball golfers.

Zinger, news flash.....we don't answer to the PDGA....our rules are our rules...their' are their's. Bottom line...IF you play in an event that I am Tding..and you have cashed in a SN pro division in the last 6 months..dual sanctioned or otherwise, you will play a pro division.

Well then maybe you should not dual saction any event. In the past the PDGA rules overruled any SN rules,,,THE MASTERS RULE THAT EXPIRED A FEW YEARS AGO!! Oh, I'm not a board member, I must not no. ;) Zack, good attitude from a board member, thanks.

Terry Zeringue

since the board has an "I know more about it than you" attitude, I'll stop giving my thought, opinions, and facts.

Terry Zeringue

The PDGA rule on Masters didn't automatically overrule the SN. The age shift was immediate for PDGA events, but the SN grandfathered the masters.

grandfathered it EXCEPT FOR DUAL SANCTIONED EVENTS!!!

Terry Zeringue

Dear Honorable SN Board of Directors,

I have a question regarding eligibility in SN sanctioned doubles events.

If a player has not taken cash in an SN doubles event in the last 6 months, are they eligible to play in a lower division?

Thanks so much for your time and dedication to the sport of disc golf. Remember Jesus loves you.

Yours truly,

Bluff Magee

Bluff, I you cashed in this event with a pro partner, while you were playing an AM division, you can play automatically in a lower division.ut yes after 6 months of no cash, you are free to roam the AM divisions. Correct me if I'm wrong other board members.

That's easy for you to say :) but not easy for me to read. So you're saying if I didn't cash in a doubles event in more than 6 months i can play Am at a doubles tournament? Cool.

Bluff, that is correct. he was also saying that if you where an_AM_player and your partner was open and you had cashed, you would still be able to plat down.
So yes to both! or at least yes to the one you asked about.

wait, if Mike would of cashed at a singles event last week, but hasn't cashed in a doubles tournament in the last 6 months he is still able to play Adv in doubles?

Terry Zeringue

no

well please explain, two board members just agreed with Mike,,, I hope he is able to play.

Terry Zeringue

Zinger, please read my post once again. I plainly said if he hasn't cashed in a pro division in the last 6 months , that he is free to join the AM field. I also said that if he has played a doubles event with a pro ..him being an AM, and cashed he is still able to play in an AM division..good to have you speaking for me tho Zinger.