I notice now at least two tournaments on the Main Southern National page that are PDGA only Tournaments. They both compete directly with the Wall Doxey Tournament.

The one in Texas doesn't seem like it would compete that much with the Wall Doxey but when you add the PDGA C-Tier in Birmingham to the mix, I would think that could be a problem.

Any thoughts regarding this?

Duke of Disc Golf A-Number 1
[daffyshirts.com]

Also, how about the January tournaments on the home page. Can we get those updated.

Spud, I do agree about the comment but, your advertising on the site could be seen two ways as well!

Willie, Not sure about that one Jk, you got an answer?

Why is this only a problem when Wall Doxy has a tournament? People post local tournament info, doubles info, and course clean up activities that conflict with SN events all the time. I'm sure disc golf birmingham wouldn't pull a post off of their site from Wall Doxy about their tournament which is the same day. Besides it's a tournament to pick the USDGC rep from Alabama. No one from MS or Memphis would want to enter it anyway as the only prize is the rep position and hotel and entry fees.

Josh

Yeah, I don't think Kris is trying to compete with anyone.

And in all fairness he has been talking about our event on that date for a while now, when we scheduled ours WD was planning theres for the 15th-16th....see link here - [sndg.org] There isn't a post about WalDoxey on the same dates until the 10th of this month. Compare that to the first post about the Golden George in October... [sndg.org]

Justin Littrell
DGB Club President
[www.DiscGolfBirmingham.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/11/2006 09:47PM by Justin.

I have no problem posting Disc Golf events on this site, whether they be SN or PDGA or non-sanctioned events. We're all about disc golf. At least I thought we were. It's about letting people know what's available and letting them make choices. rWc

I also don't have a problem with non-sn tournaments getting a little press here, especially from cities that support the sn series.

As for the front page information, I'll attempt to update it today. However if someone wants to write up the tournaments they can email that to me or post on the site and I can get it to the front page.

John k

the more the merrier......choice is good!

Griff

Justin..this event has been the weekend after easter for around 6 years now. Well except for one year it was the weekend before. I have a problem with Non-sanctioned tournies being allowed to use the free advertising on this forum. what do you think would happen if I posted a non-PDGA tourny on their forum...I know what would happen. DELEATED....We have around 100 SN tournies this season. That an average of at least 2 per weekend. The major advertising tool is this forum. I just don't think it's right to allow non-sanctioned events the free advertising. When the SN tournies pay $2 per player. Wall Doxey is not the only tourny that this has happened to. It happened to Jeff at LL, it happened to Jabba at Jackson..The list goes on if you need it. I will probely be the only Board member that feels this way. If this forum is open to all advertising then change the name to the "Disc golf form"..no need to assiocate a name like Southern Nationals with it.

Zack,

I unfortunately blew this all out of proportion following Brad's comment. I apologize to the Wall Doxy folks if they took offence. I will say this though, if you want to ban non SN tournaments, you need to ban local club workdays and doubles info which occur on the weekends. I would also think you would need to ban the "Whose going to BG, Worlds, or Augusta" threads as well.

Many clubs pay the entry fee only because they feel they shouldn't post without being an SN tournament, but occasionally, as you well know, events conspire against them.

Josh

I realize that the tourny in B-Ham is a very important tourny this up coming weekend. I am not trying to single out one case of this happening. It happens all the time.I really don't think that players will turn down a tourny for work days at other's courses.
We have always used the reasoning of not scheduling tournies that are with a certian distance of each other on the same weekend. Well the amount of courses has grown dramatically in the past couple of years and everyone wants to have a tourny or 2 at their course each year. Well we have gone from trying to schedule around each other to just not sanctioning the event and doing it whenever we want to and still use the SN as a springboard for the event.I think as more courses are built that this problem will continue to grow more and more.

And for those of us in northwest Alabama who like to draw from parts unknown, we have to take into consideration PDGA events so we can get the best participation. rWc

Zack, I apologize if you thought I was trying to confront you. I was just using the data I had on hand to illustrate my point. It wasn’t anything personal towards your event. Besides, lets be honest here. I doubt that our little USDGC nomination event is _really_ going to pull any people away from your established event..haha.

I also understand that you're just trying to make your point so no worries there. And I don’t really disagree with any of your points, however if you look at most of these cases it’s simply tournaments that "don't make sense" to be SN. Like charity events, very small local tournaments, or in the case of ours a tournament directly related to the selection of our USDGC state rep. Birmingham has its share of SN tournaments and adamant supporters, but it just doesn't make sense for us to do that this time around.

Personally, I think it would be wrong for the SN to ban tournament postings, however in the event it ever comes to the point that people are trying to compete directly with SN events I think it’s something that should be considered...or at least a way to make the SN tournaments more of the central focus of the forum. (Perhaps a non-SN tournament forum?)

Justin Littrell
DGB Club President
[www.DiscGolfBirmingham.com]

Justin I disagree with you about "your little event not pulling any people" from the Wall Doxey event. I know of 1 person that will be in Birmigham this w/e instead of Wall Doxey and I know of atleast 3 others that are considering it.

However much you want to belittle the event, ya'll ARE pushing it hard and that sell job is drawing attention from non-Alabamians as well. Also the fact that you are offerring something that is uniquely different from what Wall Doxey is offerring in terms of course play could increase your draw over them. And you are using the SN forum (in a completely legal way right now I might add) to push this event directly against the SN sanctioned event at Wall Doxey. I would argue that Wall Doxey's $2 a head gives them the priviledge of advertising here, while your event is freeloading. So right now sanctioning gets you 1 week of a red HOT! tag and a listing on the SN calendar, sort of slim returns for a TD on your investment.

I've been an advocate of removing or somehow dividing the non-SN events from the SN events on the forum because, as a TD, I value every single person I pull to my events. I've never run a tournament with more than 50 players eventhough I've put in the effort and infrastructure to handle 100 players. So at that level if a small Tag-challenge mini is held an hour or two away and is advertised in the same places my event is, that mini does provide my player pool with alternatives that I might or might not be able to compete with in some way or another.

Jeff,
That is kind of surprising to hear, I never thought anyone out of state would conciously pick Kris' tournament, but i hear your point.

My only argument (for the sake of adding more information to the frey) is that the people that monitor the FORUMS themselves are going to find out about the events anyway. The people gainend to SN tournaments by those that simply come online and check the schedule (something that non SN tournaments don't appear on) has got to be 5x greater.

So bottom line is of the 20% of the people that visit the site that actually visit the forum how many of them ONLY find out/talk about NON SN events via the SN forum....you see my point here? I just can't imagine that allowing the non-sn events to post here would sway anyone that wouldn't find out about the event other places.

I'm not arguing that SN tournaments shouldn't be more of a focus here, I'm just saying that I think time would be better served figuring out ways to plug the SN events harder (I think someone mentionend a full page add in Disc Golf World) than trying to silence any other tournaments that might be in the region.

-Edited for clarity-

Justin Littrell
DGB Club President
[www.DiscGolfBirmingham.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2006 11:14AM by Justin.

again, the more the merrier.....one could still post, just sart a place "non-sanctioned events" and thread from there...

Griff

Justin, I must also agree with Jeff. You guys have not only posted here but on the Atlanata site aswell. Now you say you did not expect players from other states but, Kris has made clear on the other forum that he knows other players from other states will be here. What gets me the most is I offered to pay the SN fees for this event and was met with less than open arms. I as well as others know that advertising a non sactioned event will take away from Sn events. Which is why I say no free advertising. USE THE PDGA FORUM and see if that would have gotten the same response. Bob

Way to support the home team there Bob.

Geez, this is all so silly. The SN is so all about good friends and good times. You people are starting to sound like the PDGA.

Brian Moon
SNDG Webmaster

Thank you Brian. That's what I thought we were getting away from. rWc

Thanks Brian, I know Kris doesn't visit these forums anymore so I'll say thanks for keeping all of this in the best interest of the game for him.

Bob, it seems like every point you tried to express in your post has already been covered elsewhere, so if you didn't read it on those threads then there is no point in my posting it again.

Justin Littrell
DGB Club President
[www.DiscGolfBirmingham.com]

Wall Doxey had 19 players less than last year this past weekend for the same tournament on a pretty weekend. hm

Duke of Disc Golf A-Number 1
[daffyshirts.com]

You would need to prove they came to Bham instead for your point to be valid. How many people on this page are on this page.

Brian Moon
SNDG Webmaster

Thanks again, Brian. There could be many reasons for a decline in attendance. Our attendance has been up (a high of 144 in 1994 to a low of about 50 a couple years ago). There are a lot of factors involved and it wouldn't surprise me if gas prices don't hurt attendance later this year. I wish I could hit all the events in a three-hour radius, but money and other activites prevent it. rwc

i count zero people in the union of the two subsets brian referred to a couple posts ago.

don't underestimate the power of this forum (or underestimate the power of the dark side) for attracting players to a tournament. more players read it than one might think. players go where they perceive value, and if a TD hits the forum and spouts off about all the things that make his tournament special, generally you'll see bigger numbers of players show up...unless the weather is bad. poor weather is still the #1 player hater in disc golf.

In THAT case......Bud Hill events are SPECIAL....

The FIRST weekend in May is therefore, SPECIAL!!

Griff is the TD, isn't THAT SPECIAL??....

Mach V in advanced for winner.....HOW SPECIAL!!!

Great times, great food, great friends and great courses......SPECIAL!!! See ya'll at the Hill!!--it'll be SPECIAL!!

sorry, Mikey....had to do it....

Griff

I just hope it doesn't rain. Rain: Not special! :) rWc

Russ made a good point.... gas price is up up up.

Terry Zeringue

Wall Doxey appears to be a VERY POOR showing from the North MS Disc Golfers and a so so to bad showing from Memphis. It does not appear that TX or AL tournies affected turn out.

Duke of Disc Golf A-Number 1
[daffyshirts.com]

You're right Griff...Memphis tourneys are SPECIAL!!!



as in Special Olympics kind of special!

tell me that don't look like Street and Brad.

ouchee!

Griff