Since there is a meeting of the Southern Nationals Board of Directors Wednesday night, I was just checking to see if anyone had any issues they think we should address. If so, you can post them here or email them to me and I'll bring them up if time allows. Just trying to solicit input from the players. rWc

Please help with the confusion between all the Intermediate/Amateur/Advanced Masters divisions!

Different prices for each division, different skill levels, yet they all get lumped into one division for points etc...

we need to do something about this! It has taken over many threads

Hello?

HELLO!?! HELLO !?!

IS THERE ANY BODY OUT THERE?

Intermediate and am masters are the same divisions, just like intermediate and am men are interchangeable.

The am master and adv master division to me are basically the same as well. I know that the same 4 players can play in 2 different events and one td can have them listed as am masters and the other td will have them listed as adv masters. I think that there are two different skill sets however I think that at the majority of tournaments in sn land that there aren't enough ams over 40 to justify both divisions, hence the reason some call them am masters and the others call them adv masters.

There are a couple tournaments where there can be both divisions, and I think the snac is one of those places where it is justified.

As for the points being lumped together that happened after I started doing the points. I'd post the posts to the website and I'd have players that had both am master and adv master points. I had requests at times to change entire divisions designation from a past tournament because they were adv masters not am masters and vice versa. Players wanted their points consolidated and since the majority of both am masters and adv masters at that time had points in each division I asked Brian Moon to consolidate both divisions in regards to the points.

The same was done for the am ladies. It was getting to the point that we had too many points designations and were doing points disc at the end of the year for divisions like adv women and pro master women that only had a handful of players associated with them.

Hopefully that explains it somewhat.

John k



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/01/2007 11:45PM by John K.

if they are over 40 and want to play another division then they should play regular am, provided that the am baggers have moved on to advanced like they should!

And this is why there is NO movement to be a better player!!! Next You enter and make Your own Division and play by Yourself!!! Know wonder Am is getting SO FAT Instead of Moving up...They Move over!!!
At This Rate, Bud Hill Might be My LAST SN; no plans on playing(Won't play Orgil till a designer tweek it or Plants It), just plan on being there!!!

Jack, would you prefer the SN start using the new PDGA-approved Expert Amateur division?

I have YET to hear a good, comprehensive, and tenable solution to playing below a player's correct division. Ratings based competition is a massive organizational and data intensive undertaking. More divisions just dilutes the competition. And peer pressure works to a degree but plenty of people just ignore it so it's not really a solution either.

If someone has a TRULY workable solution to sand-bagging please, by all means, post it or email it to me or private message me.


FWIW, what's wrong with Orgill? The design makes excellent use of the characteristics of the land.

Jeff H

Quote
Russ C
Since there is a meeting of the Southern Nationals Board of Directors Wednesday night, I was just checking to see if anyone had any issues they think we should address. If so, you can post them here or email them to me and I'll bring them up if time allows. Just trying to solicit input from the players. rWc

At the risk of being redundant I invite your attention to the thread I started "The Future of Champoinship Tournaments".

Gary Wagoner

what is the rule for age divisons?

If someone is turning 40 or 50 during the SN season are the allowed to play in the Masters or GM divisons? Or do they have to wait till ther Bday? The PDGA uses the Bday during the season method. I know the SN season runs overlaps but in order to have a chance at the points title it would make sense to start with the season.

Thanks BOD!
Bob

Bob ours is the same as the PDGA eligible the year you were born.

John k

Thanks JK!

Well Jeff!, First would have to start using Some NON-Age Protected Tourneys; Let Only the Big Tourneys be Age Protected. Have only one AM Div with Masters and GM! Am 1 Gets all Am Sponsor Stuff, Am 2 Has low entry and gets Trophies and/or plaques; Pro 1 gets All Sponsor Cash, Pro 2 gets Entry Back. As for Orgil, 15 of 18 Tees in the Blazing Sun (Plant Bushes or Trees By the Benches{Sense Tees are Concrete and can't be moved to where they need to Be!!!} [You think]!!! Needs to be at least 2 Links Holes, Remove at least 3 of the 2 or Die holes! Can You Say Righty Friendly?!!! Oh and Never say Never, I might Have To Play for gas money Home; I'm still Broken from the SNAC, haven't been able to work sense July...Living on Plastic(It just does not taste right and less Filling)!!! More later...

Quote
John K
Bob ours is the same as the PDGA eligible the year you were born.

John k

after more thought, I am not sure why it would not be during the season as it starts in September and ends in August. So if your Bday was in mid may, half of the season would be over and you would not have a legitimate chance at the points title.

Thanks again BOD!!! I think this needs a vote?????

BOB I AGREE WITH YOU THAT WE NEED TO VOTE SOON ON THIS; AND IM THINKING THE WEEKEND OF THE BUD HILL TOUNEY IT WILL OR SHOULD BE VOTED ON.

My suggestion is to abide by the K.I.S.S. principal: eligilibity in the year you reach the age threshold. While players may or may not know fiscal year of SNDG or PDGA, they can generally be relied upon to know when they were born.

Gary

Quote
Gary Wagoner
My suggestion is to abide by the K.I.S.S. principal: eligilibity in the year you reach the age threshold. While players may or may not know fiscal year of SNDG or PDGA, they can generally be relied upon to know when they were born.

Gary

Yes Gary but, it does not allow for a fair chance at the SN points awards, since the SN series covers 2 years. Just makes more sense to run concurrent with the season.

I think Mr Timm already answered this question for me but I want to be sure I have it straight. The money raised from the sale of 2007/2008 Bag Tags goes to the SN Pro Championship to be held in Little Rock next year. None of the money raised from Bag Tag sales goes to the SN Am Championship to be held in P'cola. Is that correct?

Thanks in advance for any help,
Matt Davenport
PDGA# 30274
ECDGC# 005
BADGC# 030

Matt that is correct. All the money raised goes to the SNPC. The SNAC has a built in "fund raiser" in that the host club can use the sn fees to buy prizes at wholesale and pay them out in retail. Another reason is the ams generate about 2.5 times the amount of sn fees that the pros do.

John k

matt i just found this out as well; but to me it really makes no diffirence it all comes out in the wash; however i don't want anyone to think i was miss leading in where ithought the money is going; if it makes a diffirence just return the tags to me and i will sell them; thanks for all you do.

Quote
mike sidebottom
matt i just found this out as well; but to me it really makes no diffirence it all comes out in the wash; however i don't want anyone to think i was miss leading in where ithought the money is going; if it makes a diffirence just return the tags to me and i will sell them; thanks for all you do.

Oh no Mike. I'm still going to try to sell them. I'm also going to keep the SN bag tags in play at any bag tag round I TD to help raise awareness. I just wanted to be sure I understood how it all works.

Thanks,
Matt

________________________________________________________________________________________________

A disc chuckin' Panic lovin' fool

PDGA #30274

"If I were to wish for anything, I should not wish for wealth or power, but for the passionate sense of the potential, for the eye which, ever young and ardent, sees the possible."
Soren Kierkegaard

Quote

If someone has a TRULY workable solution to sand-bagging please, by all means, post it or email it to me or private message me.

Our association has bounced around the idea of the following:

Am Divisions:
Top three finishers get trophy and one nice disc, bag, or some better than average prize. All player receive one disc in player package. Registration fee is reasonable to cover expenses and remain inexpensive.

Advance Divisions:
Trophy, Payout in plastic for top third as normal

Pro Divisions:
Trophy, Cash as normal

As it stands now (with the TDGA), Am divisions pay out is 50% of players with plastic. Most baggers win enough plastic that they start selling to other players. This hurts honest retailers and gives no incentive for an AM to move up ... especially if they are selling discs for money on a regular basis. From a TD standpoint, there is nother worse than trying to prepare the award packages for a 35-40 player Am field. If someone comes in 17th in a field of 35 Ams, do they deserve a payout? If an Am wants to win plastic, then MOVE UP to the next division!

This is plain and simple. There are incentives to move up and no reasons to lay around in a lower division.

We now have two retailers in Tupelo. Both want to assist with sponsorships. Preventing the excessive flow of plastic at tournaments will assist retailers, who will in turn, assist tournaments and disc golf overall.

Although not perfect, I see this as a viable solution to bagging and would be interested in hearing reasons it would not work. It would certainly be better than the current system. Sure would make a TD's life more enjoyable!

[tupelodiscgolf.com]



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2007 09:45AM by Grayson Robbins.

Grayson,

Why do you need the vendors? Why doesn't your club set up an account with Innova or take advantage of the new SN discs that Jim is offering. This will more than likely out achieve any sponsor as Jim is offering at 1 dollar over cost. Guess but fairly close DX at 5.25 Pro at 6.50 Star 12. Then yourclub can use the fair market value, which would be extra cash!

good Luck and if you need any advice PM me!

As for the baggers, good luck with that;0}~





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2007 10:13AM by Tax Man.

Get enough money to payout top 50% in OPEN and top 40% in ADV and top third in INT.

Terry Zeringue

You're reading my post wrong. We do purchase direct from all manufacturers. My main point of this was the sand-bagging issue.

The secondary point I was making is that the AM division pay-outs in mucho plastic floods the market and saturates prospetive buyers (ams). This prevents quality retailers from entering the market. Stop the flood and generate better retailers that will assist in promoting tournaments and casual events with sponsorship MONEY! I'm not saying purchase your awards plastic from them. You would still go direct as aways.

Back to the main point ...

If TD's and clubs are putting on tournaments just to pad their pocketbooks, then the above sand-bagging solution won't work. But then I have to ask: Are those TD's/clubs putting on tournaments for the promotion of the sport, or for financial gain?

The TDGA is a non-profit and all money/profits go back into the courses and promotion of the sport. The above solution would work fine for us but may not for others.

[tupelodiscgolf.com]

Quote
Grayson Robbins
You're reading my post wrong. We do purchase direct from all manufacturers. My main point of this was the sand-bagging issue.

The secondary point I was making is that the AM division pay-outs in mucho plastic floods the market and saturates prospetive buyers (ams). This prevents quality retailers from entering the market. Stop the flood and generate better retailers that will assist in promoting tournaments and casual events with sponsorship MONEY! I'm not saying purchase your awards plastic from them. You would still go direct as aways.

Back to the main point ...

If TD's and clubs are putting on tournaments just to pad their pocketbooks, then the above sand-bagging solution won't work. But then I have to ask: Are those TD's/clubs putting on tournaments for the promotion of the sport, or for financial gain?

The TDGA is a non-profit and all money/profits go back into the courses and promotion of the sport. The above solution would work fine for us but may not for others.

I was never saying PAD your Wallet but the opposite. Pad the pro purse and then more players will or may step up! I played advanced for less than a year then on to OPEN, as the name implies it is open to anyone. Sorry if we got crossed up on the snadbagging issue.

Pad the OPEN purse and pay deeper in the OPEN division so more people will have a chance to cash.

Terry Zeringue

Is 300 miles the accepted distance another SN event can be held within, without causing conflicts of schedule?

Matt

________________________________________________________________________________________________

A disc chuckin' Panic lovin' fool

PDGA #30274

"If I were to wish for anything, I should not wish for wealth or power, but for the passionate sense of the potential, for the eye which, ever young and ardent, sees the possible."
Soren Kierkegaard

MATT THATS WHAT THEY HAVE TRIED TO DO IN YEARS PAST; HOWEVER WITH THE EVER GROWING GROTH OF THE SPORT THIS UNWRITTEN RULE WILL FADE AND FADE AWAY; AND IN MY OPINION THIS IS A GOOD THING; HOWEVER THE ANSWER IS YES YOU SHOULD TRY TO KEEP IT AT A 300 MILE RADIUS.

I believe the board lowered the limit to 250

JABBA


it MUST be the plastic