Th little earth analogy thing you did is correct. But you look at it from entirely the wrong view. We are the most likely conclusion, not the east likely explanation.

And as far as the whole "raise the dead, walk on water, heal the lame" bs, not only did none of those things ever happen because they defy the laws of physics, but they can easily be misinterpreted and cataloged (as they were on the bible) as miracles. You have to remember that the nincompoops that wrote the bible believed the earth was flat. They still didn't know the stars were burning balls of gas in the sky. You are taking the word of the least educated people to write a book that is still being printed today. C'mon man!

[www.foxnews.com]

Not sure what you meant by "I look at is from an entirely wrong view" so in your opinion what is the correct view?
Not sure what you meant by "We are the most likely conclusion, not the least likely explanation"? Do you mean
that man created everything?

So basically you are saying nothing ever in the existence of our universe has happened aka "a miracle" because it defies
physics? So people surviving car wrecks, heart attacks, near death experiences, people who should be dead but are alive... how do you explain those things?.... Science, physics, reasoning cannot explain everything..

Actually the people who wrote the bible over a period of some 1,500 years, from around 1450 B.C. (the time of Moses) to about 100 A.D did not write that the earth was flat but round.. here are a few verses:
Isaiah 40:22 (NKJV) 22 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.
Job 26:10 He drew a circular horizon on the face of the waters, At the boundary of light and darkness.
Proverbs 8:27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:

To me the bible is a book that answers a lot of questions people have about life:
1) How did the universe get here?
2) What purpose do I have for living?
4) What happens when I die?
Those are just a few questions I think every person on the planet asks at some point in their life
and the Bible answers all of them.

James Ireland
They're always after me lucky bag tag!





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2011 12:24PM by jamesireland.

Honestly in your heart of hearts do you really believe as most people who don't
believe in God but only "Science" that nothing exploded from nothing and started spinning
around and formed stars, planets, then on just one planet as far we know a goo
from a swamp evolved into another species, finally into a monkey, then evolved into humans.
That is what the Big Bang "Theory" and Evolution teaches.

It takes just as much faith to believe in that as it does to believe in a Creator.

Creation demands a creator.

God created us and the whole universe intricately for His good will and pleasure..

I am interested in what you believe?

James Ireland
They're always after me lucky bag tag!





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2011 12:23PM by jamesireland.

I am not saying whether I believe or not, as it is not relevant...I keep my beliefs private.
My question is, where does evolution stand? What about dinosaurs that date back before the bible.
What about the early versions of "man"?

I am not disagreeing, just curious as to what you think. When I was growing up, I was told that these things were a product of bad science, now we know science and carbon dating are real.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2011 12:34PM by wayneacree.

Wayneacree.. that's cool that you keep your beliefs private...
Dinosaurs actually are mentioned in the bible.. the term "Dinosaur" was invented in the 1800s.
The word dinosaur was coined in 1841 by Richard Owen[1], from the Greek words for "terrible lizard", and reflected the creatures' large size and fearsome appearance to the early paleontologists. as noted on this website: [www.conservapedia.com]

The bible mentions the word "dragon (See this website: [www.accuracyingenesis.com])
behemoth (Job 40:15-24)
leviathan (Job 41, Psalm 104:25,26, Isaiah 27:1)

To read what Creationists believe about dinosaurs and the bible:
[www.answersingenesis.org]

If you are referring to hoaxes like the Piltdown man.. read here on wikipedia: [en.wikipedia.org]
I know that schools teach evolution like it is a FACT, it is not and has NEVER been proven.
That's why they call it the THEORY of evolution... some even call Evolution a religion because it is not based on fact.

Here is one view of the Carbon Dating:
[www.christiananswers.net]

I am definitely not a scientist, theologian, bible scholar, etc etc,
I simply believe what the Bible Teaches, and that science proves that the Bible is accurate...

There are tons of articles on Creationsim if you are interested....

My main point is that, it take just as much faith to believe one way or the other...
Creation clearly is intricate in detail, not haphazardly put together, this universe was made by purpose and design...

James Ireland
They're always after me lucky bag tag!

I will check out your links...thanks

I am definitely not a scientist, theologian, bible scholar, etc etc,
I simply believe what the Bible Teaches, and that science proves that the Bible is accurate...

And neither are the people who wrote that hocus pocus piece on carbon dating. You can't really believe that the earth is 10,000 years old.

Miracles don't happen. Coincidences do every day. Why must you take the unexplained and coincidental phenomena and claim it as a miracle from some magical Santa in the sky?

Science can't explain where the universe came from. Just because some clowns 2000 years ago claim that their is some male, homophobic, and apparently war-mongering tooth fairy in the sky that can save your soul (which doesn't exist) and created everything, doesn't make it true. On the other hand, science cured polio, eliminated malaria on our continent, put a man on the moon, ACTUALLY saves people from dying, heals the blind, and above all, has made life better for everyone. I think I'll stick with logic.

Your one downfall is that Mr. Ireland is not making fun of your beliefs and you continue to bash his beliefs. Mine also. Which shows bad light on whatever you have to say about the subject and kind of makes your opinion not worth reading. We are not making fun of yours why make fun of ours. Because people are scared of what they dont understand.

I don't feel as though I've mocked anyone. If anyone feels that I've bullied them in any way, this is my apology.

If you don't like my analogy of Santa, it the tooth fairy, then substitute any of those for any other mythical creature.

Man Stafford that is a bit back handed. I believe in a higher power, and that is all I am willing to contribute to this thread.

Wow...JESUS CHRIST,may GOD BLESS YOU POOR SOUL'S...

Save your poor soul's what? Please continue.

Rinkelstein,

Actually you haven't offended me at all, the message of the bible is offensive and a stumbling block to those
who don't believe or understand, I will go back to the bible on that one:

"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are saved it is the power of God. For it is written: 'I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.'
"Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
"For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men." 1 Corinthians 1:18-25
"...God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;" 1 Corinthians 1:27

I appreciate you testing the bible, even if you don't agree with it at all,
You still haven't said one word of what you believe,
since you mentioned that "Science can't explain where the universe came from"
Ok so using logic, in your opinion how did the universe get here?
What purpose do humans have on this earth?

James Ireland
They're always after me lucky bag tag!





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2011 07:44PM by jamesireland.

Quote
jamesireland
how did the universe get here?

It's always been here.

I don't really believe that, but if it's a good enough answer for "Where did God come from?", then it's also good enough for this question.

_______________________________________________________________
Justin Dyess

Overdrive Disc Golf
We buy and sell new and used discs. Check out our website.

Not sure if this video answers many questions, but it really speaks for itself: Life is precious, Life has meaning, We will all face our Creator one day.

[www.youtube.com]

[www.legacy.com]

James Ireland
They're always after me lucky bag tag!

Personally, I love it when religious people quote Shakespeare thinking it's from the bible. I hear it all the time. The last time, a guy told me "This above all: to thine own self be true," and said it was from Corinthians or something.

Um, wrong, you bible-thumping mental shot glass. That's Hamlet. And then they deny it. I whip out the smart phone. Fun ensues. Good times.

Mathew... It's certainly not fair to say that we are mocking anyway.

If we don't believe in "god" or "unicorns" or "Santa" then why can't we compare all of the fairytales the same? Just because you put (in my opinion) too much time in one fairy tale over the other doesn't make it mocking when one compares the two.

James (with all due respect we will disagree on this topic but you seem logical enough to have the discussion without letting it affect a friendship... with that said):

How is it that in all the "carbon dating is bunk" searches you can't seem to find one that isn't a product of an xtian source? Why can't you find a reputable science article from a definitive science body that agrees with those findings? Doesn't that in itself make you suspicious of their methods? Science is about "searching for answers" but it seems that these guys are looking for support for the answers they want to be true. If you LOOK for something long enough you will find something that satisfies that. Just like the movie 23 or how about all the numerology stuff.

When you say people survive car wrecks they "shouldn't" all the time and ask does physics explain that.... well, yeah, it does. We may not know the exact method but just the right amount of things came together to cause X,Y and Z to happen that allowed that person to survive. If you had a highspeed camera in that car at the time you would have seen it all and went "that makes sense"... I'm sure nothing unnatural would occur. Just like the JFK magic bullet, they have shown how it could have easily happened given the FACTS of the matter and not speculation... or did god want JFK dead? ;)

BTW, you do know that first post of yours was totally circular logic... look into it. You can't use bible quotes to prove that god exist or that people that don't believe are "fools" (and Mathew said that he wasn't mocking us? Granted, I don't take it to heart like he is).

I could quote you things from all over history that diametrically opposes that thought process. Hell, in 2000 years this post in itself will have us saying "there is no god". That won't make it anymore fact than your 2000 year old quotes that say that we are fools for saying so are facts.

Don't you think it a little bit "convenient" that the devil is to blame for all the scientific data that contradicts the bible? I mean, dino bones that date back WAY further than any human remains. There were several "jesus" like personalities that predated jesus... Mithra, Krishna, Romulus, Dionysus, Zoroaster/Zarathustra, Horus, and MANY others. These are discounted with a story that "the devil went back in time and planted those stories to make people question the story of Jesus" What?!?! That is beyond convenient don't you think?

This doesn't even touch on the fact that the entire story of the devil doesn't even make sense! I'll expand if you wish, but just read the story of how he came about and the "falling out of grace" and then from his perspective ask "WHY?"

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Creation requires a creator.....

the big bang requires a bang....

science requires a theory.....the theory had to be created/developed.....

it all goes back to the same answer - there is something far greater than you and one day in some form you will meet Him........


You think therefore you are.......but you are just a brain in His vat and he allows you to sense, feel, perceive and even dream......

call it what you want - even the most recent scientific arguments confirm the existence of something wholly outside ourselves that has given method to all "madness"........


Hope to see you there.....

Quote
Griff
even the most recent scientific arguments confirm the existence of something wholly outside ourselves

Please give works cited.

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Don't you guys find it kind of odd that the "white guy's" got it right and all those that aren't are wrong?

Why did "jesus" only expose himself to the "white guys"? Were the asians, austrailians, americans, africans all not worthy?

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No one here is being racist - Christ was a Jew......


As for your other query, please watch/review the latest episode of THE UNIVERSE appearing on SCIENCE channel....episode as called "God and the Universe"....

you will find after all the quantam physics, string theory, membrane theory, etc. the conclusion remains the same - there is something responsible for all of it...."scientists don't argue that God doesn't exist, they simply atttempt to go in a different direction when faced with a complexity that their theories and equations cannot explain"........


God's Got It!!! Peace with you, Gilligan.....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2012 02:08PM by bryan griffin.

My point is that if you would have been born in India you would have likely been a hindu, not an xtian.

Your system of belief is more so based on geographical location than it is on any divine intervention.

BTW, I tried finding that show and episode and can't find either. If you google "God and the Universe" you do find a video but it's a xitan based vid and not something from the science channel. If you search that same term on the science channel's website it doesn't find a single result.

The term "god" and "universe" searched bring up the Morgan Freeman vehicle "Through the Wormhole" with an episode titled "Is There a Creator?"

I do have a great PBS documentary called "Evolution" it's 8 hours and it's amazing. Talks about how often people cite the human eye an example of something so perfect only god could have made... then it shows how imperfect the eye is and how easily you can track it's evolution from a simple light sensing cell on an organism to what we have to day... which really is pretty weak considering.

Back to the topic at hand... check out this map

Religions by country

Clearly it depends where you were born more than anything.

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Jesus didn't go to the white guys, Middle Eastern guys etc.. his message is to the whole world.. here is his great commission to his disciples:
Matthew 28:19
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.

Jesus was Jewish (God's chosen people) so he went to them first then to the Gentiles (Peoples or Nations)
Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek (Gentiles)

Mark 16:15
He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation

James Ireland
They're always after me lucky bag tag!





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2012 03:46PM by jamesireland.

But why did he not go to them directly?

Why leave it in the hands of so few to spread such an important word around?

But you are losing focus.... do you think if you were born in India you would be an xtian? Or do you think you would be hindu?

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So if you were born in America you would be Christian?????

I understand your reasoning, but just because a whole country believes in a religion and you are
raised up in it, doesn't mean that people don't convert either way when they are old enough to
understand and start questioning why they believe what they believe. Alot of countries will kill you if you
convert from their religion and go to another religion.

Romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

Just because you are born into a culture doesn't mean you can't convert...

We are so blessed to live in a country where we have freedom of religion...

James Ireland
They're always after me lucky bag tag!





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2012 04:28PM by jamesireland.

Gilly,
It premiered last Tuesday at 9 pm......it'll likely be on again tomorrow as they usually show the shows last episode right before the new episode...

and the THrough the Wormhole conclusion is just about identical.....God's STILL Got It!!

James, though you are 100% correct... I was mainly going on statistics.

What would you suppose is the conversion rate for an american to islam or hindi? It happens but it's fractions of a percentage point. Same goes for other cultures.

Look at South America... they are only so dominantly xtian because of missionaries (most not so christ like).

Hell, let's look at the african-american population. They weren't xtians when they were first brought over here... didn't take many generations before they were "converted" and now some of the biggest believers in Jesus their is. In reality though, if they would have been left alone they would still be worshiping their own faiths.

Do you think you might change over to another religion of the world? What would you say are the odds to that happening?

For the record I am a "convert"... I was raised Catholic/Baptist and completely believed up until about 18-19. It wasn't a abrupt conversion it took a while of questioning things and coming to my own answers.

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Griff... I'll check it out, thanks for the heads up.

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