Again i have been on cards where i have asked and only had less than a hand full say they wasnt cool with smoking and i didont but its all good i barely even smoke during rounds now so it will def give people less to fuss about and i would like to say again CHRIS P AND JOSH E. Awesome event well ran i loved every course as far as i see it complete success so what if it was a little hard on some folks than others out there on the courses it aint called a championship for no reason but on the real side a few safety measures at Indigo everything else perfect keep up the great job ESD is doing for pdga and sn disc golf:-) peace

And where does anyone see 90 people im talking bout the 90 tournaments i got under my belt in the last 3 years some of yall cant even touch that number in the last 3 years:-)

I can :-P

2011 Adv Points Champion
2011 Am player of the year

Maybe u can robbie. But a good bit of them cant :-) haha

Now that you Ams had a great weekend, Why not come and test your skills against some Pro's.

SNPC Labor Day Weekend. September 1st and 2nd.

All you winners should come play, See how you do!!!!!!!

Great Courses!!!!! Great Payout!!!!!

Congrats to all winners!!

Bhole bring that A game!!!! We are looking for you in the Masters Division!!! It is time young Jedi!!!!!!!

pb

dustin morris Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
"Smoking weed and drinking does not welcome a lot
of folks, and is one reason why this sport can not
be taken seriously......I think that should be
done away with before prayer before the round..."

You have a keen sense of the obvious Dustin.

head Wrote:
=======================================
"Well I happen to have really enjoyed the prayer. Maybe non Christian golfers should respect that. If you didnt like the prayer you could have walked away! But its funny as Christians, you expect us to keep silent and respect you but in turn you dont repect us and our beliefs. If someone is talking about something I disagree with I will walk away."

So by that rationale it would have been just as acceptable to follow up the prayer with shots & bong hits at the players meeting. All of you christians who are opposed to it could just walk away if you didn't want to take part.

You see how stupid trying to justify why it is acceptable to alienate anyone for any reason sounds. HB1 is entitled to his opinions just like you guys. & the SN is a DISC GOLF organization. Not a prayer group or a smoking circle. The undeniable truth is that we would be better off without either of them at our tournaments.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2012 11:59AM by BERNIE.

On a much more related note: Not enough credit has been given to the Dustin Lemasters on this win. I think people who weren't there really can't appreciate how incredible that 193 total was. To shoot a 6 under second round in the driving rain on a challenging, wooded, hilly, rain soaked course was something to behold; especially after playing 24 holes that morning. Then to follow that up with a 6 under in the final 9 playoff holes?! WOW! I thought I had a pretty good weekend and dude beat me by 12 strokes! He beat second place by 8 strokes!

That was the very definition of a championship performance. Dustin, dude, you were on fire. Nice shooting!

HB1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> On a much more related note: Not enough credit has
> been given to the Dustin Lemasters on this win. I
> think people who weren't there really can't
> appreciate how incredible that 193 total was. To
> shoot a 6 under second round in the driving rain
> on a challenging, wooded, hilly, rain soaked
> course was something to behold; especially after
> playing 24 holes that morning. Then to follow that
> up with a 6 under in the final 9 playoff holes?!
> WOW! I thought I had a pretty good weekend and
> dude beat me by 12 strokes! He beat second place
> by 8 strokes!
>
> That was the very definition of a championship
> performance. Dustin, dude, you were on fire. Nice
> shooting!


Or a player who does not belong in that divison :) bwhahahah

I find it interesting that this thread has become one of drug use and prayer. Also interesting is that EVERY MAJOR sport in the U.S.A. prays before the game/race/match is played. Now that being said EVERY one of those said sports also have sanctions/punishments for drug use of ANY kind.

That being said shows that GOD and prayer are more prevalent in sport and drug use of ANY kind is not tolerated in sport.

Even if one does not believe in GOD or is against prayer just being silent is the acceptable reaction at these sporting events, and Disc Golf is a sporting event. If Disc Golf wants to be mainstream and get television exposure and such it will naturally have to follow the lead that these other sports have set years ago.

Now this is my opinion on this matter and I am only one person. Bash it, trash it, try to tear it down but I believe I have stated the truth about the other sports that get the exposure that Disc Golf needs to be placed on a national level such as Baseball, Football, etc.........

Keith "The BodyGuard" Robinson

It is alway best to keep "your things" to yourself...and away from affecting others. Regardless of what "your things" are. Unfortunately, Disc golf will never be what baseball and football are...SO, enjoy what you have(disc golf) while you have it, Keep your beliefs and activities in a private setting. That way nobody will judge you or have anything to talk about while you are not around.


Enjoy!

I blame Obama!

___________________________________________________________________________
Keith "Sunshine" B

BERNIE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dustin morris Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> "Smoking weed and drinking does not welcome a lot
> of folks, and is one reason why this sport can
> not
> be taken seriously......I think that should be
> done away with before prayer before the round..."
>
> You have a keen sense of the obvious Dustin.
>
> head Wrote:
> =======================================
> "Well I happen to have really enjoyed the prayer.
> Maybe non Christian golfers should respect that.
> If you didnt like the prayer you could have walked
> away! But its funny as Christians, you expect us
> to keep silent and respect you but in turn you
> dont repect us and our beliefs. If someone is
> talking about something I disagree with I will
> walk away."
>
> So by that rationale it would have been just as
> acceptable to follow up the prayer with shots &
> bong hits at the players meeting. All of you
> christians who are opposed to it could just walk
> away if you didn't want to take part.
>

Prayer is legal. Drinking in any of those 3 parks was stated before hand that it was not acceptable. Hitting a bong is 100% illegal to do. So yes breaking the law in a park would not be acceptable at a players meeting at all and could cause people that do not drink or smoke to get in trouble as well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2012 04:21PM by dustin morris.

I, along with other, would like to see a financial report for the SNAC. Expediences vs. income. Cost of prizes vs. what the SNAC was charged. Profit made by the host. If any extra discounts from the vendors, were given to the host, because of the purchase power of the SNAC. Real number.....it was the SN 8k that was turned over. Payout does not answer these questions. Before everyone jumps on me these are just questions not accusations of wrong doing.

___________________________________________________________________________
Keith "Sunshine" B

dustin morris Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BERNIE Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > dustin morris Wrote:
> Prayer is legal.

Not necessarily. Moment of silence is legal anywhere, prayer is not legal everywhere. Depends on Federal $$$$...parks etc. Federal statutes might cover some events, I am not sure...

I am all for a moment of silence, that way people who pray or not can do whatever/however they like.

wayneacree Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dustin morris Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > BERNIE Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > dustin morris Wrote:
> > Prayer is legal.
>
> Not necessarily. Moment of silence is legal
> anywhere, prayer is not legal everywhere. Depends
> on Federal $$$$...parks etc. Federal statutes
> might cover some events, I am not sure...
>
> I am all for a moment of silence, that way people
> who pray or not can do whatever/however they like.

Yes but in this case it was legal.

ok true enough...how many other rules/laws were broken? I am sure there were many others(laws/rules) also. Why only pick two? The only two that bother the religious peeps? Just curious as to the answer on that one.

Keith Bodin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I, along with other, would like to see a financial
> report for the SNAC. Expediences vs. income. Cost
> of prizes vs. what the SNAC was charged. Profit
> made by the host. If any extra discounts from the
> vendors, were given to the host, because of the
> purchase power of the SNAC. Real number.....it
> was the SN 8k that was turned over. Payout does
> not answer these questions. Before everyone jumps
> on me these are just questions not accusations of
> wrong doing.


LOL, the BOD was supposed to be involved with the FMV :}}}

Yo tax man, you ever release how much you've stolen out of peoples envelopes. Your such a sorry piece of human. Why don't you come to the pro championship so I can put you in that wave of dreams for the rest of your breathing. The best thing to ever happen to birmingham. Bob "sad" saddler gone! Sorry peice of work you are

I am not sure how many other laws were broken. But the only ones i could see/smell was those 2. I am just saying that disc golf has much more issues than prayer before the round. Especially if i can smell it or see it in the parking lot, there are kids playing this game to. If one of the juniors see's me praying, I do not think it is a bad influence.

wayneacree Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ok true enough...how many other rules/laws were
> broken? I am sure there were many
> others(laws/rules) also. Why only pick two? The
> only two that bother the religious peeps? Just
> curious as to the answer on that one.

I've been to ALMOST EVERY type of major sporting event and here's what I remember about prayer before hand: NASCAR, NFL, NCAA? yes. MLB, NBA, PGA, MLS, NHL, Tennis? No.

I think that means you DO NOT have to have prayer in order to be considered a real sport.

Either way, as a spectator I had no say so. If I was employed by one of those organizations and they forced me to participate in religious ceremony particular to a certain religious group, to which I did not belong, I would be upset. As a member of SNDG, I would like to think that my voice counts as much as a player in one of those other groups.

Like I alluded to earlier, the Christians would not be nearly so understanding had our TD been muslim and asked the group in joining him in removing their shoes, laying out their discgolf towels, facing east, kneeling, bowing, and appealing to Allah for protection. This forum would have blown up with all kind of hate-filled rhetoric.

I started this conversation in a very even handed and non-critical way. I just requested that religion-specific rites and rituals be excluded completely or substituted for a moment of silence, as to not exclude members of our DISCGOLF COMMUNITY. As is usually the case, I have been basically told that my opinion doesn't matter and I should just shut up and deal with it, as it is just the "Am'rcan way."

As I feel very strongly about this, I will continue to petition memebers of the BOD and leaders in the discgolf community to consider taking measures to make sure that we do not, again, put members of our community in a position to either A) conform and participate in a certain religious ritual/ceremony, or B) be forced to isolate/remove themselves from their fellow discgolf brothers and sisters. I will follow the proper channels and raise these questions in a respectful way and will continue my long-standing practice of conducting myself in a way that does not put other discgolfers in a similar situation as the one I was put in.

Again, as I understand it, Jesus, Allah, Buddha, Yahweh, the flying speghetti monster and every other god can, in fact, hear prayers spoken by individuals, out-loud or in silence. Given that, and if the point of praying was simply to appeal to god for protection and guidance, I see no reason why it was made into a group activity. The point of making it a group activity was either to sate someone's personal ego, strengthen the Christian bond among the group, or attempt to convert or force conformity. None of those cases serve the discgolf community. They either serve an individual or the Christian church.

I love all you guys and gals and fully respect whatever belief system you adhere to. I only expect the same respect be extended to me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/24/2012 10:39AM by HB1.

Omg how hard is it for anybody to just walk away ? If you dont have the strenght to just walk away from something you dont want to be around then tough @#$%& ! No one ha a gun to anyone head saying hey you must pray or hey you must smOke pot cause i promise not one person part of this southern national group can make me do anything !!!! So if i can walk away so can anyone else . Once again this forum is titled sn tournament information not sn tournament intervention so take the prayer and drug talk else were!!!!!!

HB1 is absolutely correct. I don't see how anyone can even argue the point.

_______________________________________________________________
Justin Dyess

Overdrive Disc Golf
We buy and sell new and used discs. Check out our website.

So if HB1 is on my card and I want to conduct a prayer outloud on every teebox.... Is that "unsportsmanlike" conduct? Go forward with your petition because it is your right ..... We will be praying together on every teebox because it is mine...... Oh let me guess, you will just "walk away" or "not participate?" which is exactly what you could have done!

Now back on topic:
Congrats to all the winners! Especially to DeeDee and Dustin, our locals 850 representing!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/24/2012 11:27AM by DISCKEY.

No, Diskey. That would be fine. I just don't want the TD's doing it. Personal expressions of faith are awesome, no problems there. Group prayers led by SN tournament organizers, not cool.

Again, walking away from the group is, of course, always an option. But why should a player be forced to exercise that option in a non-church setting? Why should we ostracize Muslims, Hindu's, Buddist, or Atheist for the sake of Christianity?

Following that line of logic you could also say "hey girls, I know it's a co-ed organization, but if you don't care for raunchy, sexists jokes you could just walk away."

"Hey muslim players, if you don't like us appealing to Jesus you could just walk away."

"Hey black players, if you don't like racial slurs you could just walk away."

I mean are those really fair options? I really can't believe that everyone can't just agree that appeals made to one particular god, led by a tournament director or representative isolate memebers with alternate beliefs. It really should be an easy thing for us all to agree that a moment of silence or nothing is the fairest thing for all involved.

HB1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> On a much more related note: Not enough credit has
> been given to the Dustin Lemasters on this win. I
> think people who weren't there really can't
> appreciate how incredible that 193 total was. To
> shoot a 6 under second round in the driving rain
> on a challenging, wooded, hilly, rain soaked
> course was something to behold; especially after
> playing 24 holes that morning. Then to follow that
> up with a 6 under in the final 9 playoff holes?!
> WOW! I thought I had a pretty good weekend and
> dude beat me by 12 strokes! He beat second place
> by 8 strokes!
>
> That was the very definition of a championship
> performance. Dustin, dude, you were on fire. Nice
> shooting!

Definitely! Dustin had a great weekend. I got to play with him two of the rounds, he's a real solid player. I thought I had him at one point, until the rain hit haha.

Buzzz > Roc

"Pool B's player's meeting was concluded with an opening prayer"

I agree with HB1 that the director(s) in charge of a players meeting should do their personal practices sometime other than the meeting and in some context that would not be perceived as TD official capacity activity. Unofficial associations not disturbing to the event should otherwise remain free.

The one question I have is why it is referred to as an opening prayer instead of a concluding prayer. If it was after the meeting, no problem. If it was part of the meeting that is inappropriate, not illegal but unprofessional and not good DG TD like.

Well I got to say that ESD must have held a great SNAC if the biggest issue is a prayer at the players meeting.

How about one of you post this issue in general discussion and have the debate. This has gone way past being on topic with this thread and either needs to be ended or discussed on its own thread.

Congratulations to all the winners and the ESD crew.

Keith Bodin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I, along with other, would like to see a financial
> report for the SNAC. Expediences vs. income. Cost
> of prizes vs. what the SNAC was charged. Profit
> made by the host. If any extra discounts from the
> vendors, were given to the host, because of the
> purchase power of the SNAC. Real number.....it
> was the SN 8k that was turned over. Payout does
> not answer these questions. Before everyone jumps
> on me these are just questions not accusations of
> wrong doing.


about 190 players entry fee (190*50) is $9500
sn fees is about $8000
which totals $17,500
payout was over $35,000 (that's over double btw)

stop being a douche ... these guys worked their @#$%& off to put on a great tourney with a great payout



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/24/2012 12:48PM by fsn.

Keith Bodin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I, along with other, would like to see a financial
> report for the SNAC. Expediences vs. income. Cost
> of prizes vs. what the SNAC was charged. Profit
> made by the host. If any extra discounts from the
> vendors, were given to the host, because of the
> purchase power of the SNAC. Real number.....it
> was the SN 8k that was turned over. Payout does
> not answer these questions. Before everyone jumps
> on me these are just questions not accusations of
> wrong doing.


Sorry Keith I missed this post skimming past the OT.

I can't give You the full answer because I am not sure what was all ordered, I can give You the FMV prices that the BOD allowed for them to charge per disc.

Cryztal Z $17
ESP/Star $15
Z Fly Dye $17
Z/Champion $15
Pro $12
DX $8

I also have the prices for the baskets and players packs in an email somewhere but didn't have time to look it up at the moment.

fsn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Keith Bodin Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I, along with other, would like to see a
> financial
> > report for the SNAC. Expediences vs. income.
> Cost
> > of prizes vs. what the SNAC was charged.
> Profit
> > made by the host. If any extra discounts from
> the
> > vendors, were given to the host, because of the
> > purchase power of the SNAC. Real number.....it
> > was the SN 8k that was turned over. Payout does
> > not answer these questions. Before everyone
> jumps
> > on me these are just questions not accusations
> of
> > wrong doing.
>
>
> about 190 players entry fee (190*50) is $9500
> sn fees is about $8000
> which totals $17,500
> payout was over $35,000 (that's over double btw)
>
> stop being a douche ... these guys worked their
> @#$%& off to put on a great tourney with a great
> payout


Seriously? Don't be a tool to my friend. He asked a simple question, without any disrespect. How about a little respect in return?

Or, keep being a tool. Your choice. Have a nice day!