DISKEY WROTE: Well HB1, start your petition then..... Or just don't play in an ESD event again........ To my knowledge Josh always says a prayer to conclude the meeting, but I have also heard him say "if anyone has any objections......." before he does. Why didn't you speak up then? You obviously object. Do you also object to any TD yelling "ROLL TIDE" at the player's meeting? That alienates me, I'm an Auburn fan!

So when you start your petition, include that the TD needs to have drug sniffing dogs on hand, as well as breathalyzers at the conclusion of each round!!! You can't pick and choose your battles......

I would like to conclude with a prayer: "dear Lord baby Jesus........"

Obvioulsy we're just going to have to agree to disagree Diskey. I didn't hear him ask for objections, but really that wouldn't make it any better. Can you imagine me standing up and saying "yeah, I object?" That would've gone over like fart in church. In fact he didn't even wait long enough for people to actually excuse themselves. I had only taken 1 step before he started up.

I really don't see the comparison between the "rolltide" and "war eagle" thing (bit of a reach), but for the record I think the public random "roll tides" are about as stupid as trashing your own campus with toilet paper as a form of celebration; so there.

Drug sniffing dogs: stupid analogy.

I didn't say I was going to start a literal "petition," I said I was going to "petition the BOD," as in "request." sorry for the confusion created by my colloquial usage of the term.

Also, I really appreciate your "Or just don't play in an ESD event again" comment. I'm not sure ESD identifies with your sentiment, though, that 'if you're offended by our TD's leading the players at tournaments in a christian prayer, tough. Just don't attend one of our events.'

If a representative from ESD would like to formally issue a statement to that effect, I will be more than happy to recuse myself from any of their tournaments thereby relieving ESD of the inconvenience of having to behave in a way that's welcoming to people of all creeds. You guys could just change the name to ESPJ-D: Eat, Sleep, Pray to Jesus, Disc. I don't see that happening though, DISKEY, because that's a pretty harsh and prejudiced thing to say. Not to mention it's completely antithetical to their mission, which is to promote disc sports and providing the best products at the best prices.

You're trying to infringe on their right to run a tournament as they see fit! If they want to have prayer, they should be allowed to because it is their event! They weren't infringing on your rights, they didn't make you pray! But instead you want to make them not do something they believe in.

As someone stated earlier, A TD offering up a prayer is the least thing to be worried about if there are laws being broken at a tournament....... But you are choosing to pick and choose which topic is an issue and "petition the BOD" so why not stop illegal activities too?

I by no means speak for Josh, Chris and ESD.......... I just know that if there is something I don't agree with, I'm going to remove myself from the situation or not put myself in that situation..... That's what I meant by "don't attend!"

HB1 isn't trying to infringe on their rights because he doesn't have the power to do so. All he's doing is stating his opinion that TD's shouldn't be doing things that isolate people from the group.

_______________________________________________________________
Justin Dyess

Overdrive Disc Golf
We buy and sell new and used discs. Check out our website.

Is it their right to hold prayer at an ESD event? Yes it is! Stating his opinion and electing to ask the BOD to stop TDs from praying a loud at their own event are two different things!

It would just work the same way as your "don't attend" statement. If the BOD decided they didn't want TD's leading prayers at SN sanctioned events (not gonna happen), it would be the TD's option to not run a SN event so that he can still have his prayer.

_______________________________________________________________
Justin Dyess

Overdrive Disc Golf
We buy and sell new and used discs. Check out our website.

language proposal:

"Southern National Championships shall be conducted without respect to an establishment of religion and without prohibiting the free exercise of religion consistent with the rules of play"

Hey, if ESD wants to run a non-SN sanctioned event they can do whatever they want. But this was an SN event-championship nonetheless. I'm not sure a christian prayer, is in line with the SN mission.

This is just another example of how religions are like pets: the people who own them think far more of them then those who don't and they can't understand why other people don't see just how adorable they are.

I know it's hard to believe but there are people out there who don't care for the organized religion of Christianity. We're fine with allowing each person to believe whatever they want, but we recognize the organization as one of several world religions that has been responsible for mass murder, political corruption, systemic molestation, psychological abuse, and a host of other atrocities. Now I know that every organization has it's issues and the individuals from that group do not necessarily represent those things, but it doesn't make it ok to infuse one of that religion's ceremonies onto a group of discgolfers of various creeds and beliefs.

I mean, can you honestly tell me you would have been ok with the TD doing any of the following:

"alright everyone, before we start I'd like to read an excerpt from the Communist Manifesto"

"alright everyone, before we start I'd like to appeal to Satan for his guidance."

"alright everyone, before we start I'd like to pray to the one true God Ahuru Mazda."

"alright everyone, before we start I'd like to sacrifice an animal for protection"

"alright everyone, the organizers for this event are Vegans and do not believe in the slaughter of animals. You are invited to bring your own lunch or leave if you don't like the meatless lunch we've provided."

"alright everyone, before we start I'd like to perform a quick voodoo ritual. Anyone who does not want to potentially have a spirit take possession of you, you are welcome to leave."

According to what you're saying all of these things would be fine because they are an expression of the TD's personal belief and the participants in the tournament are welcomed to leave. Can you honestly tell me you'd just be completely cool with any of those scenarios?

Yes, I can honestly say I could care less how a TD conducts THEIR OWN tournament! If I didn't care for what they were doing, I would remove myself from the situation or not put myself in the situation all together! Am I saying we should have prayer at every dg tourney.......no, but I think a TD has the right to run their tournaments how they want.

There is no place for any prayer in tournaments. You're there to compete. If the players want to pray, let them pray together, but don't cram your religion down people's throats.

Can we say the Pledge of Allegiance before tournaments?

The issue is not about what players can or cannot do. It's about how the event is directed. The championships should be neutral on everything except fair competition if you want them to mean something disc golf related.

The SN organization might want to focus on the people who are doing the illegal drugs or the non-permitted drinking of alcoholic beverages in city parks instead of the tds who want to have a prayer. Pick your battles. Forget about the tds who want to pray. If somebody wants to pray to Allah, Satan, or Hitler, I have no problem with that as long as I have the same opportunity to pray to whomever I want. That's what makes this country great. We all have freedom of speech. I believe the td should have the right to exercise prayer if he wants to. If we have objections or we don't like how a td runs his tournament, we have a choice not to go. That goes for any organization.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/2012 04:02PM by Karen J..

moment of silence sounds like a winner to me. Do with it, what you will.

That should make both sides happy.

I am going to start wearing my God Ween Satan t-shirt to every tourney .

Every knee shall bow and every tongue proclaim.

What is a prayer? One definition words it in the following way:

"The act of making a reverent petition to God, a god, or another object of worship."

Because I have voyaged abroad and toured extensively in the U.S., I have learned that customs and traditions are geographically unique every place I've traveled (The Caribbean islands and South America aboard an ocean-going tug and all over the U.S. in the military and playing in a touring rock band). Sometimes merely 100 miles yields a vast difference in the customs and traditions of a people. Through my travels I learned the invaluable lesson to respect common tradition in those regions. If I did not believe in the tradition, customs, or religion it was of no consequence. If someone called me out on my beliefs, that is a different story. Guess what? I was never called out.

If you are not singled out as different, how is a prayer for you a bad thing?

Let's use an analogy to explain my point. Take the 2012 SNAC and teleport it to another cultural setting. Let's say the 2012 SNAC is held in Jamaica*. We're all pumped to be there. Right? We have been warming up and seeing familiar faces and having a great time, and then the TD calls us in for the player's meeting. She gives us great information explaining sponsors, prizes, the players' party, and rules concerning the course layout. Then asks everyone to bow for a Rastafarian prayer:

"Princes and princesses shall come forth out of Egypt, Ethiopia now stretch forth her hands before JAH. O Thou God of Ethiopia, Thou God of Thy Divine Majesty, Thy Spirit come into our hearts, to dwell in the parts of righteousness. Lead and help InI to forgive, that InI may be forgiven. Teach InI Love and loyalty as it is in Zion, Endow us with Thy wisemind, knowledge and Overstanding to do thy will, thy blessings to use, that the hungry might be fed, the sick nourished, the aged protected, and the infant cared for. Protect InI this day as we have great joy and brotherhood in our sport. Deliver InI from the hands of our enemy, that InI may prove fruitful for these Last Days, when our enemy have passed and decayed in the depths of the sea, in the depths of the earth, or in the belly of a beast. O give us a place in Thy Kingdom forever and ever, so we hail our God JAH Selassie I, Jehovah God, Rastafari, Almighty God, Rastafari, great and powerful God JAH, Rastafari. Who sitteth and reigneth in the heart of man and woman, hear us and bless us and sanctify us, and cause Thy loving Face to shine upon us thy children, that we may be saved, SELAH."

It is implied to anyone with religious convictions that they may say their own silent prayer at the time that someone is orally leading a prayer. An atheist may take a moment to think from an anthropological standpoint, "Wow, its an honor that a person who holds their religion so dearly is praying for the well-being of myself and others this weekend...Oh brother, I wish she would hurry up though so we can play disc golf already. Oh. She's done! Let's go sling some plastic."

Anyway, unless some hostility has been directed toward you because your beliefs are different, I don't really see why a prayer is a big deal. From an anthropological standpoint, its a high form of respect extended to you. You don't have to believe it. Just respect customs and traditions in your current location and feel that you are appreciated by your host because they thought enough of you to appeal to the highest power in their life on your behalf. You don't have to believe any of it. Just walk away honored that they think that much of you.

If an Islamic, Buddhist, Hindi, Jewish (insert any religious faith) person prays for my well-being, how can I possibly feel insulted or uncomfortable about that? If anything, I feel more welcome.

But anyway, if everybody needs their moment of silence that's fine by me.

*According to Discgolfcoursereview.com there are currently no disc golf courses in Jamaica



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2012 12:24AM by T_Bo_Max.

this is a subject that the Supreme Court of the United States tries to avoid when they can. Looks like we gonna jump in it with both feet huh

That's whay the "Moment of Silence" approach would be the best solution for all sides......

It will give the atheists out there a chance to meditate on their emptiness......

No praying,no drugs,no alcohol,no profanity,no speaking , @#$%&! I vote for no @#$%& and whining !!!!!!!

BIGFOOT lives !

The "Moment of Silence" is a widely accepted approach in many situations. Another would be for the TD to simply announce the meeting is officially over then state that she is personally organizing a prayer session of whatever faith for those interested. Either way it's just a TD decision right now under SN rules. Neither approach gets to whether the series should adopt a policy on religion (politics or other matters of diversity). I don't see any need for a SNQ policy - $2 per head is good enough regardless and it's the TD's event. I just think having a policy for the SNC's is worth considering. Is this just a business decision or are there strings attached to our ".org"?

Just be happy We have TD'S. Whoever this piss ant hiding behind "hb1" should learn to pick better battles than prayer in the South!!! This thread is FUNNY, some boys need to grow "up" a LOT

Calling people names and saying they need to grow up in the same post. Awesome.

_______________________________________________________________
Justin Dyess

Overdrive Disc Golf
We buy and sell new and used discs. Check out our website.

Im on the BoD and say that if a TD wants to do the pledge of allegiance and a prayer he or she can. Let people know before hand that is about to happen and allow person/s to walk away until they see fit to come back.

"HOGMAN"
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